Renesis engine issues finally identified?
#26
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
Dear Rotarygod,
First of all, thank you very much for sharing with us your always wise knowlegde. In this particular case the lesson is about the "probably-no-so-good" lubrication system we have got for our beloved renesis engines.
As for premixing, we know that the fuel pump (and particularly the fuel filter) is the weak part as it tends to get clogged quite frequently. In this regard here in Spain, there are some members of the www.club-rx8.com (inlcuding myself) who are considering the fuel pump as a wear part that must be replaced at some point in time.
First of all, thank you very much for sharing with us your always wise knowlegde. In this particular case the lesson is about the "probably-no-so-good" lubrication system we have got for our beloved renesis engines.
As for premixing, we know that the fuel pump (and particularly the fuel filter) is the weak part as it tends to get clogged quite frequently. In this regard here in Spain, there are some members of the www.club-rx8.com (inlcuding myself) who are considering the fuel pump as a wear part that must be replaced at some point in time.
But its just that our pump sux and need service sooner than most cars out there
Fortunately the fuel pump "kit" is not a very expensive part, just about 150 USD + replacement cost so as soon as the first sympthons of fuel starvation happen, the fuel pump gets replaced.
By the way, where have you got the info about the new OMP and new oil injection system for 09 RX8 ? it has not been published oficially yet
Best regards
jird20
Best regards
jird20
#27
Mad for a Furai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madrid - Spain
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as I know, the 09 model will be equipped with a (revised?) 13B-MSP.
I think rotarygod and some others around here know many more things about the new car than we do . I am afraid they have to be tight lipped for the time being... but sometimes they somehow release some partial information to us
This might be the case about the new OMP. Am I right Fred?
Cheers
jird20
I think rotarygod and some others around here know many more things about the new car than we do . I am afraid they have to be tight lipped for the time being... but sometimes they somehow release some partial information to us
This might be the case about the new OMP. Am I right Fred?
Cheers
jird20
#28
I originally posted most of this in a different thread in the disucssion section before I realized that this is probably something that everyone should study up on. In a moment of rotary clarity I think I figured out why the Renesis dynos inconsistently, has inconsistent mileage numbers reported, has people reporting random engine failures, has dealerships telling people they need new engines even though they seem to run, and why people that premix have seemed to report better mileage. It all has to do with one thing. The oil metering system. http://rotaryeng.net/Sealtemp-verse-oil-vol.jpg
a lot of it is the owner/drivers of the cars. if you took a sample of any performance area of any car you'd find it "inconsistent" too. mileage for example, varies with the driver, topography, weather, fuel quality, etc etc.
or even the dealership part, in the 3 years i was there, we changed 1 rx8 engine. why? because it was leaking coolant externally. we had one more that tested with low compression, but mazda WOULD NOT let us change it. they made us put coils on it, which fixed the compression problem (i know! if i didnt see it i wouldnt believe it)
so back to the metering pump issue. yes, i think its weak too. ive driven a couple of cars that made apex seal noise. the seals make a scratchy noise when they dont get lubed right. this is troubling, as theres no obvious "fix"
#29
First of all, thank you for your very interesting post.
A part from the new third injector versus premixing what do you think about making two different oil circuits? one for engine and parts cooling and a tank filled up with 2stroke oil for injection? I know this is fairly used on aircrafts but i've seen a kit or two for sale made for our Renesis.
Thank you very much
A part from the new third injector versus premixing what do you think about making two different oil circuits? one for engine and parts cooling and a tank filled up with 2stroke oil for injection? I know this is fairly used on aircrafts but i've seen a kit or two for sale made for our Renesis.
Thank you very much
#30
Work hard Drive Hard!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: south texas
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Synthetic oil with several ?'s
About the subject spoken earlier i thought you couldnt use sythentic oil? The dealershiop said "rotary must not take synthetic", but if some of you are using it with no porblems i might think about it my self. Oh yeah thanks rotary god for the post, much help. Also, in time should i think about pre mix. I have 55k on my 04 am I going to run into problems with my engine. The reason I ask is that my shop guy mentiond some thing similiar which was stated above. I am the lay person (excuse my lingo) for this subject, but he said that there was a machine or some thing that mixed the gas and oil and he recommended "premixing". He said if this machine goes out "good luck, amigo"I was frusterated thinking of the subject. Any who if you all know please tell.
#31
Registered
Thread Starter
while i dont disagree with you on the metering pump issue (ive driven a couple 8's that made apex seal noise) but having both taken statistics (loooong time ago) and worked at a mazda dealership, would disagree with blaming the metering pump for all of the inconsistencies.
a lot of it is the owner/drivers of the cars. if you took a sample of any performance area of any car you'd find it "inconsistent" too. mileage for example, varies with the driver, topography, weather, fuel quality, etc etc.
or even the dealership part, in the 3 years i was there, we changed 1 rx8 engine. why? because it was leaking coolant externally. we had one more that tested with low compression, but mazda WOULD NOT let us change it. they made us put coils on it, which fixed the compression problem (i know! if i didnt see it i wouldnt believe it)
so back to the metering pump issue. yes, i think its weak too. ive driven a couple of cars that made apex seal noise. the seals make a scratchy noise when they dont get lubed right. this is troubling, as theres no obvious "fix"
a lot of it is the owner/drivers of the cars. if you took a sample of any performance area of any car you'd find it "inconsistent" too. mileage for example, varies with the driver, topography, weather, fuel quality, etc etc.
or even the dealership part, in the 3 years i was there, we changed 1 rx8 engine. why? because it was leaking coolant externally. we had one more that tested with low compression, but mazda WOULD NOT let us change it. they made us put coils on it, which fixed the compression problem (i know! if i didnt see it i wouldnt believe it)
so back to the metering pump issue. yes, i think its weak too. ive driven a couple of cars that made apex seal noise. the seals make a scratchy noise when they dont get lubed right. this is troubling, as theres no obvious "fix"
I agree that it doesn't explain everything. I do think it explains many things though and that's what is important. Keep in mind this is still just a hypothesis and in no way can I absolutely claim that it is in fact to blame for these things. It seems to be pretty well founded though based on what we know and what Mazda is doing to deal with the issue. At the very least the topic is worth studying further.
#32
Registered
Thread Starter
As far as I know, the 09 model will be equipped with a (revised?) 13B-MSP.
I think rotarygod and some others around here know many more things about the new car than we do . I am afraid they have to be tight lipped for the time being... but sometimes they somehow release some partial information to us
This might be the case about the new OMP. Am I right Fred?
Cheers
jird20
I think rotarygod and some others around here know many more things about the new car than we do . I am afraid they have to be tight lipped for the time being... but sometimes they somehow release some partial information to us
This might be the case about the new OMP. Am I right Fred?
Cheers
jird20
#33
Nope
iTrader: (9)
About the subject spoken earlier i thought you couldnt use sythentic oil? The dealershiop said "rotary must not take synthetic", but if some of you are using it with no porblems i might think about it my self. Oh yeah thanks rotary god for the post, much help. Also, in time should i think about pre mix. I have 55k on my 04 am I going to run into problems with my engine. The reason I ask is that my shop guy mentiond some thing similiar which was stated above. I am the lay person (excuse my lingo) for this subject, but he said that there was a machine or some thing that mixed the gas and oil and he recommended "premixing". He said if this machine goes out "good luck, amigo"I was frusterated thinking of the subject. Any who if you all know please tell.
#34
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Thanks nycgps
For all the no0bs like me, this is a cool page I found. You guys check it out and let me know what you think
http://adam.standley.googlepages.com/home3
For all the no0bs like me, this is a cool page I found. You guys check it out and let me know what you think
http://adam.standley.googlepages.com/home3
#38
Surf Hard, Drive Hard
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indialantic, Florida
Posts: 7,840
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
9 Posts
Thanks nycgps
For all the no0bs like me, this is a cool page I found. You guys check it out and let me know what you think
http://adam.standley.googlepages.com/home3
For all the no0bs like me, this is a cool page I found. You guys check it out and let me know what you think
http://adam.standley.googlepages.com/home3
#41
Dongbag extrordinare
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Away from the fruits of my labor
Posts: 1,090
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't look at the # of someone's posts as a good or bad thing. The thing I appreciate the most is the willingness to share experience and info around here.
You have to be able to sift through opinions, personalities, emotions...but that is to be expected when you don't have the luxury of talking face to face.
Is there a test I can do to determine if my OMP is working properly??
You have to be able to sift through opinions, personalities, emotions...but that is to be expected when you don't have the luxury of talking face to face.
Is there a test I can do to determine if my OMP is working properly??
#42
#43
I know this is not a premix thread but I have noticed the crap that has settled in the bottom of the 4oz bottles of protekR and seeing that I dumped a full bottle into a clear container and noticed even more after letting it settle this may contribute to the cloging of the fuel pump problems.
#44
Metatron
iTrader: (1)
I would stay away from Mystery Oil - it is a pretty good solvent, like WD-40, but as a two-stroke lube it would be useless.
I use about 8 ounces per fill of good (ISO EG-D quality) oil, to keep the ratio somewhere between 150:1 and 200:1. If you want a extra lubricant in your fuel, you need to use enough to actually do the job.
The upper limit of the qualifying tests for the best two-stroke (JASO-FD) oil standards is 150:1 - after that there is no protection at all.
Modern two-cycle oil at less than an ounce-per-gallon will leave NO deposits in fuel filters, millions of users would have found the problem long ago.
S
I use about 8 ounces per fill of good (ISO EG-D quality) oil, to keep the ratio somewhere between 150:1 and 200:1. If you want a extra lubricant in your fuel, you need to use enough to actually do the job.
The upper limit of the qualifying tests for the best two-stroke (JASO-FD) oil standards is 150:1 - after that there is no protection at all.
Modern two-cycle oil at less than an ounce-per-gallon will leave NO deposits in fuel filters, millions of users would have found the problem long ago.
S
#46
Personal Thoughts
Thanks nycgps
For all the no0bs like me, this is a cool page I found. You guys check it out and let me know what you think
http://adam.standley.googlepages.com/home3
For all the no0bs like me, this is a cool page I found. You guys check it out and let me know what you think
http://adam.standley.googlepages.com/home3
This is my perspective on a renesis motor that can develop buildup from the 'average driver' (Read: those that don't read this board, or have any mechanical background).
There you have it, my thoughts
#47
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Rohnert Park CA
Posts: 755
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#49
RX-8s Official Cool Guy
#50
Nice !!!
iTrader: (5)
I'm not a dragster, i'm a marathon runner
I have a few questions after reading this thread.
My car history:
I have 52k miles and have been using amsoil 5w20 syn oil every 3k miles. I use 92/93 gas and check the level of oil with every fill up and add if needed. I usually going through about 1.5 quarts between oil changes. Its a 2004 and had the last recall done at 21k miles.
1. When is the average time to change the fuel filter?
2. How would i know if my oil metering system is working properly, is there some type of diagnostics test for this?
3. When do people usually change out coils?
4. Would a dyno test and compression test be a good thing to get once a year to catch early signs of any parts failing for people who have high mileage?
5. Is there certain criteria that i should look for to start premixing or should i definitely start now? I will check the premix threads to find appropriate oil and amounts depending the answer here.
6. Should i get an after market water temp gauge to make sure my engine is running correctly, i thought it wasn't really needed unless you had forced injection.
This is my daily driver and i love it. My goal is for at least 4 more years with this car and over 100k miles. If this included apex seal replacement or a new engine from mazmart so be it I mentally repaired, monetary preparation needs some work but can be done.
My car history:
I have 52k miles and have been using amsoil 5w20 syn oil every 3k miles. I use 92/93 gas and check the level of oil with every fill up and add if needed. I usually going through about 1.5 quarts between oil changes. Its a 2004 and had the last recall done at 21k miles.
1. When is the average time to change the fuel filter?
2. How would i know if my oil metering system is working properly, is there some type of diagnostics test for this?
3. When do people usually change out coils?
4. Would a dyno test and compression test be a good thing to get once a year to catch early signs of any parts failing for people who have high mileage?
5. Is there certain criteria that i should look for to start premixing or should i definitely start now? I will check the premix threads to find appropriate oil and amounts depending the answer here.
6. Should i get an after market water temp gauge to make sure my engine is running correctly, i thought it wasn't really needed unless you had forced injection.
This is my daily driver and i love it. My goal is for at least 4 more years with this car and over 100k miles. If this included apex seal replacement or a new engine from mazmart so be it I mentally repaired, monetary preparation needs some work but can be done.