Possible MOP oil line cleaning method?
06-15-2012, 05:52 PM
#126
Ok, I did see those things. I don't know why I didn't take them out but I'm glad I didn't now that I know I'd have broken them. I still wonder, though, if they are clean. Guess I need to crack loose the OMP lines, drive a bit, and see if I get an oil mess.
06-15-2012, 06:09 PM
#128
Hopefully I won't have a problem. However, when I went to swap my pump from the old motor to the new one, I discovered that it had some seriously nasty oil in it. Like sooty black oil. Way worse than can be justified by my oil change intervals. I was appalled. That's the thing that prompted me to take it apart in the first place. I still don't know how the oil in it got to be in such bad condition. Unless some or all of my injectors were no longer passing oil.
06-15-2012, 06:22 PM
#129
Ok, so, admission time here...
Underdog has been convinced that the OMP really is a pump.
What I failed to realize is that the spinning perforated barrels also have a stroking motion imparted to them by the fact that the bases of the driven gears are not flat. At 0 and 180 (arbitrary degrees, of course) degrees of rotation, they are at the bottom of their stroke, the location of which is determined by the position of the cam on the shaft connected to the rack gear, which is driven by the stepper motor, which is connected to the leg bone. At 90 and 270 degrees, they are at the top of their stroke, which is determined by the angled ears on the bases of the driven gears riding up on to the non-cammed sections of the rack gear shaft. So, therefore, the cylindrical things spin AND stroke back and fourth 4 times per revolution. Their stroke is variable according to stepper motor position. ***I thought the only back and forth motion was imparted by the stepper motor, which would mean that it would have to run at constant duty in order to move any oil, which is a situation that anyone concerned with long term reliability wouldn't put into practice.
In my travels analyzing this subject, I stumbled across this thread on the RX-7 club forum. They have a Denso pump and a Mikuni pump, which is similar in construction to ours. The person in this thread went to the trouble of developing a chart of actual oil volume supplied by the pump per revolution by adjuster position. All I can say is "WOW."
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=897507
So, Dan... I guess kudos for disagreeing with me. You motivated me to put way more thought into the subject than I originally thought was needed. I am now one notch closer to understanding this shitty, stupid car that has cost me so much money and heartache and yet I can't imagine ever getting rid of.
Underdog has been convinced that the OMP really is a pump.
What I failed to realize is that the spinning perforated barrels also have a stroking motion imparted to them by the fact that the bases of the driven gears are not flat. At 0 and 180 (arbitrary degrees, of course) degrees of rotation, they are at the bottom of their stroke, the location of which is determined by the position of the cam on the shaft connected to the rack gear, which is driven by the stepper motor, which is connected to the leg bone. At 90 and 270 degrees, they are at the top of their stroke, which is determined by the angled ears on the bases of the driven gears riding up on to the non-cammed sections of the rack gear shaft. So, therefore, the cylindrical things spin AND stroke back and fourth 4 times per revolution. Their stroke is variable according to stepper motor position. ***I thought the only back and forth motion was imparted by the stepper motor, which would mean that it would have to run at constant duty in order to move any oil, which is a situation that anyone concerned with long term reliability wouldn't put into practice.
In my travels analyzing this subject, I stumbled across this thread on the RX-7 club forum. They have a Denso pump and a Mikuni pump, which is similar in construction to ours. The person in this thread went to the trouble of developing a chart of actual oil volume supplied by the pump per revolution by adjuster position. All I can say is "WOW."
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=897507
So, Dan... I guess kudos for disagreeing with me. You motivated me to put way more thought into the subject than I originally thought was needed. I am now one notch closer to understanding this shitty, stupid car that has cost me so much money and heartache and yet I can't imagine ever getting rid of.
06-15-2012, 06:29 PM
#130
So, Dan... I guess kudos for disagreeing with me. You motivated me to put way more thought into the subject than I originally thought was needed. I am now one notch closer to understanding this shitty, stupid car that has cost me so much money and heartache and yet I can't imagine ever getting rid of.
Disagreeing with you is the easy part....pulling the pump apart to confirm that I had figured it out in the first place was the trick
06-15-2012, 08:36 PM
#132
Thing 1...
Omg, Team said I'm an official member!!! I feel like I've been licked on the hand by the great white elk of the forest from Snow White and the Huntsman. (I'm a straight dude by the way, in case that last sentence caused some doubt, haha)
Thing 2...
I am not kidding when I say this but I just got new license plates that say "ROTARD."
So yeah, go me.
09-14-2012, 05:50 PM
#133
i wanted to clean my lines just now because my car has not burned any oil in a really long time, but it seems to dump oil when it needs to i guess or when it feels like it? im trying to get a friend to let me use his hoist to make the cleaning process easier but in the meantime im trying to read as much as i can about this issue.
does the color of the oil line differ if it is clogged or not? mine look pretty clean, but i cant really see if any oil is moving through it or not. it wont burn any oil for about 1500km, then i'll check the next morning and half of it is gone. (checking oil on level surface and when engine is off/cold)
the car runs perfectly fine and everything sounds ok, its just that this oil business is getting on my nerves and im checking it every day before i go to work in the morning. sometimes i keep the radio off to listen for scraping apex seals
does the color of the oil line differ if it is clogged or not? mine look pretty clean, but i cant really see if any oil is moving through it or not. it wont burn any oil for about 1500km, then i'll check the next morning and half of it is gone. (checking oil on level surface and when engine is off/cold)
the car runs perfectly fine and everything sounds ok, its just that this oil business is getting on my nerves and im checking it every day before i go to work in the morning. sometimes i keep the radio off to listen for scraping apex seals
09-14-2012, 09:01 PM
#135
i wanted to clean my lines just now because my car has not burned any oil in a really long time, but it seems to dump oil when it needs to i guess or when it feels like it? im trying to get a friend to let me use his hoist to make the cleaning process easier but in the meantime im trying to read as much as i can about this issue.
does the color of the oil line differ if it is clogged or not? mine look pretty clean, but i cant really see if any oil is moving through it or not. it wont burn any oil for about 1500km, then i'll check the next morning and half of it is gone. (checking oil on level surface and when engine is off/cold)
the car runs perfectly fine and everything sounds ok, its just that this oil business is getting on my nerves and im checking it every day before i go to work in the morning. sometimes i keep the radio off to listen for scraping apex seals
does the color of the oil line differ if it is clogged or not? mine look pretty clean, but i cant really see if any oil is moving through it or not. it wont burn any oil for about 1500km, then i'll check the next morning and half of it is gone. (checking oil on level surface and when engine is off/cold)
the car runs perfectly fine and everything sounds ok, its just that this oil business is getting on my nerves and im checking it every day before i go to work in the morning. sometimes i keep the radio off to listen for scraping apex seals
. Just check it every 500miles, and record how much you are adding.
09-14-2012, 10:19 PM
#136
Super Moderator
Not the MOP, Metering Oil Pump again...
Try the latest EMOP or is that EOMP...!...?
Cleaning MOP Lines?, IMO I think I would renew all the lines rather than 'clean' them, OE Oil Lines are not particularly robust after age, heat, cooling and cooking day after day, year after year.
Renew with A1 aftermarket, or OEM Parts.
Unless the Part(s)- Engine or MOP are relatively 'new', cleaning would be a final option.
Try the latest EMOP or is that EOMP...!...?
Cleaning MOP Lines?, IMO I think I would renew all the lines rather than 'clean' them, OE Oil Lines are not particularly robust after age, heat, cooling and cooking day after day, year after year.
Renew with A1 aftermarket, or OEM Parts.
Unless the Part(s)- Engine or MOP are relatively 'new', cleaning would be a final option.
09-14-2012, 10:23 PM
#137
weeeeeeeeee
iTrader: (12)
After market is risky too. I'm pulling an SS set off my 8 tomorrow and going back to stock on account of them leaking after 6 months.... and these were high dollar Goodrich lines.
09-14-2012, 10:41 PM
#138
Super Moderator
Agree...
In the end IMO OEM is the way to go.
In the end IMO OEM is the way to go.
09-15-2012, 04:02 AM
#139
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I posted earlier about my oil consumption gradually receding to zero and staying there and wanting to try this method to clean out the lines, but with work I and life I never got around to it... BUT...
I ended up taking a 230+ mi trip recently in my rx8 and when I departed my oil level was normal just as it had been for months, but I didn't worry since I premix. However, when I got to my destination the oil level had noticeably dipped and by the time I was back home I needed almost a quart to top off. I think my rx8 just needed a sustained run to knock out whatever sludge was in the tubes (I had recently switched to synthetic when I noticed my consumption lowering). Now it seems shes back to normal.
I believe you can clean your tubes out manually, but a sustained drive also seems to have the same effect. My poor RX8 is a DD with a lot of stop n go, so she rarely has time to enjoy a nice cruise. I think that's all she needed to get right.
I ended up taking a 230+ mi trip recently in my rx8 and when I departed my oil level was normal just as it had been for months, but I didn't worry since I premix. However, when I got to my destination the oil level had noticeably dipped and by the time I was back home I needed almost a quart to top off. I think my rx8 just needed a sustained run to knock out whatever sludge was in the tubes (I had recently switched to synthetic when I noticed my consumption lowering). Now it seems shes back to normal.
I believe you can clean your tubes out manually, but a sustained drive also seems to have the same effect. My poor RX8 is a DD with a lot of stop n go, so she rarely has time to enjoy a nice cruise. I think that's all she needed to get right.
09-15-2012, 07:09 PM
#141
i dont think the age of my lines really is a problem since its only summer driven and has just over 60,000 km on it.
but i did find out something very interesting... dont know if it is a coincidence but after doing the 20 brake stomp thing i noticed the engine starts to draw oil again for a little while. but then again it goes back to not taking any oil at all.
i did it this morning before i left for work.
i checked the oil was at the full mark, did the 20 brake stomp and let her warm up for 10 min saw some white smoke after about a min (could be some oil or possibly just condensation) .
drove to work like i was doin a friggin time attack, then checked the oil after work and noticed it did drop a noticeable ammount.
but i did find out something very interesting... dont know if it is a coincidence but after doing the 20 brake stomp thing i noticed the engine starts to draw oil again for a little while. but then again it goes back to not taking any oil at all.
i did it this morning before i left for work.
i checked the oil was at the full mark, did the 20 brake stomp and let her warm up for 10 min saw some white smoke after about a min (could be some oil or possibly just condensation) .
drove to work like i was doin a friggin time attack, then checked the oil after work and noticed it did drop a noticeable ammount.
09-16-2012, 05:53 PM
#147
For anyone wondering, this was a success. I had to do it by removing the passenger tire. Turns out 3 of the lines looked clogged. One was defiantly clogged, and One seem to be just fine. Below is a pic of the really clogged lines bolt when I took it out. After that my hands were to dirty to be messing with a cam. After cleaning each line out I had a friend do 3k revs and watched the clean oil refill the lines from under the car, was pretty neat to see.
-Shawn
-Shawn
09-16-2012, 06:53 PM
#149
thanks. so heres how i did it.
i removed the battery and the battery tray to make it easier than jacking up the car and removing the tire, sure you gotta reset your radio stations, clock and DSC but its easier this way imo.
here is a before shot of the lines before i started cleaning them
dont know if they look bad or good but w.e
used the plastic tube from spray can and shot some cleaner through.
force it through with compressed air, using the plastic tube from the spray can again
did them all 1 at a time, put them back together and heres what they look like after
gonna drive for a couple days and see if my car starts burning oil again.
i hope i posted this correctly lol :P
thanks for helping out
i removed the battery and the battery tray to make it easier than jacking up the car and removing the tire, sure you gotta reset your radio stations, clock and DSC but its easier this way imo.
here is a before shot of the lines before i started cleaning them
dont know if they look bad or good but w.e
used the plastic tube from spray can and shot some cleaner through.
force it through with compressed air, using the plastic tube from the spray can again
did them all 1 at a time, put them back together and heres what they look like after
gonna drive for a couple days and see if my car starts burning oil again.
i hope i posted this correctly lol :P
thanks for helping out