Possible MOP oil line cleaning method?
11-10-2011, 11:23 AM
#1
Possible MOP oil line cleaning method?
Hello everyone,
So for the past couple of months I've been trying to learn as much as I can on the 8's omp system. Specifically at 9k and Nadrealista's threads talking about the problems with it clogging.
I have thought about removing the UIM to clean (or replace) them properly. But I have also read about people having issues with breaking studs/bolts when removing the UIM. I'm not very interested in dealing with that situation, although I'm confidant enough in myself to deal with it if it came to that.
My warranty is over, so not worried about anything related. The car runs fine, though my home compression test suggest the life of my engine is coming to an end whether I like it or not.
So I have been trying some "out of the box" solutions to fix my low oil consumption. I have seen some sucess as my oil consumption has increased to a more healthy level. But I also noticed 1 of my oil lines does not seem to be flowing. 3 of the lines change colors (amber to brown) depending on the condition of my current oil. While one stays dark brown. I suspect this line is clogged.
So like I said before, not very interested in removing the UIM just yet. I wanted to swing this idea by everyone to see what they think...
I plan on Saturday to drive the car down to 1/4 fuel mark, add an additional 6oz of 2-stroke oil. Disable the omp system (unplug it) then remove the lower connections for the oil lines. Block off the omp vacuum line. I will then drop all the lines into a cup of cleaner (probably seafoam, though open to suggestions) then start the engine.
The idea is the vacuum from the engine will suck the cleaner through the lines/oil injectors and hopefully clean them out/unclog them.
Your thoughts?
-Shawn
So for the past couple of months I've been trying to learn as much as I can on the 8's omp system. Specifically at 9k and Nadrealista's threads talking about the problems with it clogging.
I have thought about removing the UIM to clean (or replace) them properly. But I have also read about people having issues with breaking studs/bolts when removing the UIM. I'm not very interested in dealing with that situation, although I'm confidant enough in myself to deal with it if it came to that.
My warranty is over, so not worried about anything related. The car runs fine, though my home compression test suggest the life of my engine is coming to an end whether I like it or not.
So I have been trying some "out of the box" solutions to fix my low oil consumption. I have seen some sucess as my oil consumption has increased to a more healthy level. But I also noticed 1 of my oil lines does not seem to be flowing. 3 of the lines change colors (amber to brown) depending on the condition of my current oil. While one stays dark brown. I suspect this line is clogged.
So like I said before, not very interested in removing the UIM just yet. I wanted to swing this idea by everyone to see what they think...
I plan on Saturday to drive the car down to 1/4 fuel mark, add an additional 6oz of 2-stroke oil. Disable the omp system (unplug it) then remove the lower connections for the oil lines. Block off the omp vacuum line. I will then drop all the lines into a cup of cleaner (probably seafoam, though open to suggestions) then start the engine.
The idea is the vacuum from the engine will suck the cleaner through the lines/oil injectors and hopefully clean them out/unclog them.
Your thoughts?
-Shawn
11-12-2011, 12:22 PM
#2
For anyone wondering, this was a success. I had to do it by removing the passenger tire. Turns out 3 of the lines looked clogged. One was defiantly clogged, and One seem to be just fine. Below is a pic of the really clogged lines bolt when I took it out. After that my hands were to dirty to be messing with a cam. After cleaning each line out I had a friend do 3k revs and watched the clean oil refill the lines from under the car, was pretty neat to see.
-Shawn
-Shawn
11-12-2011, 06:42 PM
#4
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You should do a more detailed DIY.
I got copies of the diagrams and oil nozzle pdf's if you need them.
Hell, maybe I'll do it and have someone else take the pics while I do it.
You should do a more detailed DIY.
I got copies of the diagrams and oil nozzle pdf's if you need them.
Hell, maybe I'll do it and have someone else take the pics while I do it.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 11-12-2011 at 06:46 PM.
11-12-2011, 07:04 PM
#5
Well I plan to do it again Tuesday, mainly to make sure nothing re-clogs, I can see black stuff in the lines here and there, I assume its what was left in the pump coming out. Gonna try to give it a good hard drive tomorrow morning as well. I'll try my best to make DIY steps Tuesday.
Still open to suggestions on a different (stronger) cleaner other than seafoam. That black thick goop on my finger is suppose to be oil.
Still open to suggestions on a different (stronger) cleaner other than seafoam. That black thick goop on my finger is suppose to be oil.
11-13-2011, 04:38 AM
#9
^ Not necessarily, those are the only two functions I would want out of a AP.
I got the cooling fan mod for $120, and I have been increasing my omp oil flow rates by restricting the vacuum flow for the oil injectors, free. Much cheaper than buying a AP + tune.
I got the cooling fan mod for $120, and I have been increasing my omp oil flow rates by restricting the vacuum flow for the oil injectors, free. Much cheaper than buying a AP + tune.
11-13-2011, 08:18 AM
#11
sub'd
Nice work, very interesting.
Might have to add this to my Preventive Maintenance routine.
I'm guessing that if an injector or line was actually clogged you would still be stuck removing the UIM and the Injectors/line as there would be no vacuum to draw the seafoam?
Just throwing this out there, I've not but any thought in to it (and I'm hung over right now) ... could you pressurize the OMP line with a bicycle pump or air compressor (very low psi) to force a clogged injector to open and blow out the blockage?
Or even the reverse create a vacuum from the OMP side to draw out the blockage?
I've read somewhere on how this injectors work (9k's thread prolly) but can't remember ATM.
Nice work, very interesting.
Might have to add this to my Preventive Maintenance routine.
I'm guessing that if an injector or line was actually clogged you would still be stuck removing the UIM and the Injectors/line as there would be no vacuum to draw the seafoam?
Just throwing this out there, I've not but any thought in to it (and I'm hung over right now) ... could you pressurize the OMP line with a bicycle pump or air compressor (very low psi) to force a clogged injector to open and blow out the blockage?
Or even the reverse create a vacuum from the OMP side to draw out the blockage?
I've read somewhere on how this injectors work (9k's thread prolly) but can't remember ATM.
Last edited by wcs; 11-13-2011 at 08:21 AM.
11-13-2011, 08:50 AM
#12
I used the vacuum of the engine, to suck the clogged line clean, by blocking the omp vacuum line and revving the engine to about 3k and letting it drop quickly back to idle. This is also how I sped up the refilling process of the lines. Sorry I'll explain better once I'm home due to people harassing me on my break at work....
11-13-2011, 09:01 AM
#13
Mmmm Ya I understood that the engine was the vacuum source. ... err
I'm guess what I was trying to ponder was that if the vacuum of the engine was not enough to move the clog or the clog was significant enough to not allow the vacuum created by the motor to draw the seafoam from the container;
What might be other options besides removing the UIM and Injectors.
It's likely a bad idea anyway, if the vacuum from the motor isn't strong enough you should likely be taking it all apart and doing it correctly.
Not hooking up a air compressor and forcing 20 psi through the OMP lines lol ...
Haha not too mention the lean condition you would likely create if the motor was running.
Forget I said anything, (must stop posting when hungover)
I'm guess what I was trying to ponder was that if the vacuum of the engine was not enough to move the clog or the clog was significant enough to not allow the vacuum created by the motor to draw the seafoam from the container;
What might be other options besides removing the UIM and Injectors.
It's likely a bad idea anyway, if the vacuum from the motor isn't strong enough you should likely be taking it all apart and doing it correctly.
Not hooking up a air compressor and forcing 20 psi through the OMP lines lol ...
Haha not too mention the lean condition you would likely create if the motor was running.
Forget I said anything, (must stop posting when hungover)
11-13-2011, 10:41 AM
#14
Yeah your right, if the engine vacuum isn't enough to suck the gunk out it might be best to replace the lines. I have thought about using a can of throttle body cleaner, try to put the little straw into the line and blast it out, luckily for me after about 30sec of revving the line began to flow.
I also though about leaving the engine off with one of the rotors chambers in the beginning of making compression (sealed off from the intake ports) and applying vacuum with a mightyvac to the omp line to try to suck it out. I doubt it would work though since the other rotor wouldn't be in the same position.
I also though about leaving the engine off with one of the rotors chambers in the beginning of making compression (sealed off from the intake ports) and applying vacuum with a mightyvac to the omp line to try to suck it out. I doubt it would work though since the other rotor wouldn't be in the same position.
11-14-2011, 03:38 PM
#17
nice work. we need to make new thread that combines the two procedures..my method cleans the OMP nozzles and yours cleans the oil lines. I think step one is to clean the nozzles first to ensure you have good vacuum pull on the omp lines.
nozzles clog first and slow/no flow trough the omp lines gradually clogs the lines as well.
you might also want to consider using ATF fluid or MMO to clean the OMP lines out?
So if you disconnect the power to the omp pump it will not let any oil out with oil lines disconnected?
nozzles clog first and slow/no flow trough the omp lines gradually clogs the lines as well.
you might also want to consider using ATF fluid or MMO to clean the OMP lines out?
So if you disconnect the power to the omp pump it will not let any oil out with oil lines disconnected?
11-14-2011, 04:48 PM
#18
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Those bolts are sometimes very tight and the lines can be very brittle depending on the age of the car so if you guys are going to do this, be very careful because if you break one, you will be pulling your UIM anyway. I broke a bolt removing my UIM but I think it is a fluke due to over tightening by the dealer idiots. Removing the UIM should be not problem if you spray the bolts with penetrating liquid first.
Also, be careful which harsh cleaners you decide to use as they may damage the lines. But yeah, when I pulled my lines they were clogged and a couple of the injectors failed the vacuum test.
Also, be careful which harsh cleaners you decide to use as they may damage the lines. But yeah, when I pulled my lines they were clogged and a couple of the injectors failed the vacuum test.
11-14-2011, 10:22 PM
#19
Those bolts are sometimes very tight and the lines can be very brittle depending on the age of the car so if you guys are going to do this, be very careful because if you break one, you will be pulling your UIM anyway. I broke a bolt removing my UIM but I think it is a fluke due to over tightening by the dealer idiots. Removing the UIM should be not problem if you spray the bolts with penetrating liquid first.
Also, be careful which harsh cleaners you decide to use as they may damage the lines. But yeah, when I pulled my lines they were clogged and a couple of the injectors failed the vacuum test.
Also, be careful which harsh cleaners you decide to use as they may damage the lines. But yeah, when I pulled my lines they were clogged and a couple of the injectors failed the vacuum test.
About time you chime in.
lol. You are right about the lines, I broke one on my FC, I used a 1/4inch vacuum line to repair it. I was also about 17 at the time so I never replaced the line I traded in the car a few months later.So anyway... I couldn't wait till tomorrow (rain) and got some friends over today to do this.
Here is a better explanation of how I did this...
Things needed:
1/4 ratchet
10mm socket (recommend 6-point)
Cleaner of you choice.
2-stroke oil of your choice
Jack stand
A buddy or two
Something to block the omp vacuum line. (I used something out of a mightyvac kit)
---------
The day before you do this, drive the car down to 1/4 mark, add some 2-stroke oil to your gas. I added 6oz, But I already pre-mix about 1/2oz per gallon. This will give you some protection while the car runs with the lines undone.
Allow the car to fully cool, you will be using flammables near the exhaust manifold. I waited till the next day.
Pop the hood, open the trunk, and begin taking off your passenger tire. Lift the car high enough that your upper body fits under it, secure with jack stand.
Block off the omp vacuum line.
Get under the car by the passenger wheel well, move the little rubber flap out the way. Get familiar with the locations of the lines, there will be many times you have to "feel" your way around because the frame will be in your line of sight.
You can now unplug the omp if you so chose. I didn't the second time and only a little oil dribbled out.
Choose a line and unbolt it. Make sure to get the washer.
I strongly recommend doing one line at a time. Unbolting all 4 at once will cause the back metal gasket to fall out, its kinda a pain in the *** to put back in, lesson learned first go round.
Ok now you have a line off, time to chose how to clean it.
First time I used a small 6-8oz water bottle filled with seafoam, I dropped one line at a time into the bottle and had a friend rev the engine to 3k back to idle repeatedly. (Doing this helps increase vacuum temporally) After about 30secs, the engine tone changed, and smoke started pouring out the exhaust. Line changed color. Some lines this happened in under 5-10secs.
The second time, I didn't realize I had forgot to buy more cleaner till everything was all set up. So I gave the throttle body cleaner a try. I put the straw into the "O-ring" opening and closed around it with my fingers. Started the car and gave few short little blasts while reving. After a couple of shots it went threw.
Sorry, I could not take pics of that part because I needed both hands. Space is very limited.
Get back on top and see if its working. (Middle line)
I also shot a little throttle body cleaner into the bolt holes on the omp...
Do the other 3 lines.
You may notice while doing the other lines that the ones you did are filling back up with oil. This should bring joy to you.
Change setting to 1080p, full screen, you have to pay close attention to see it happening.
Please note, depending on the lighting the lines can appear darker than they are. Best to have the light behind the lines looking at you.
After you are done I would leave the omp vacuum line blocked off for a day or two and premix heavily just to be safe. Make sure if you do this to block the intake line as well.
I think that's everything...
-Shawn
Last edited by 1.3_LittersOfFurry; 11-14-2011 at 10:25 PM.
11-15-2011, 01:35 AM
#21
The OMP lines are under pressure - significantly more pressure than can be created by engine vacuum.
The OMP is a positive-displacement pump, so it will continuously increase pressure as it tries to ram a pre-defined volume of oil through the lines.
If your banjo bolts are truly plugged (not likely), "sucking" them clean wont be any more effective that "blowing" them clean with pressurized oil.
What I always do on a new motor is turn the OMP up to its highest output (or step 60 or so) and watch the oil move through the lines.
There is no more definitive test than that.
The OMP is a positive-displacement pump, so it will continuously increase pressure as it tries to ram a pre-defined volume of oil through the lines.
If your banjo bolts are truly plugged (not likely), "sucking" them clean wont be any more effective that "blowing" them clean with pressurized oil.
What I always do on a new motor is turn the OMP up to its highest output (or step 60 or so) and watch the oil move through the lines.
There is no more definitive test than that.
11-15-2011, 05:57 AM
#22
The OMP lines are under pressure - significantly more pressure than can be created by engine vacuum.
The OMP is a positive-displacement pump, so it will continuously increase pressure as it tries to ram a pre-defined volume of oil through the lines.
If your banjo bolts are truly plugged (not likely), "sucking" them clean wont be any more effective that "blowing" them clean with pressurized oil.
What I always do on a new motor is turn the OMP up to its highest output (or step 60 or so) and watch the oil move through the lines.
There is no more definitive test than that.
The OMP is a positive-displacement pump, so it will continuously increase pressure as it tries to ram a pre-defined volume of oil through the lines.
If your banjo bolts are truly plugged (not likely), "sucking" them clean wont be any more effective that "blowing" them clean with pressurized oil.
What I always do on a new motor is turn the OMP up to its highest output (or step 60 or so) and watch the oil move through the lines.
There is no more definitive test than that.
Understood, but how much pressure can the omp create? I can't imagine those little lines being able to handle to much pressure. The connections on the lines don't seem that strong.
If my lines were not clogged, why was there sludge on 2 of my connection the first time? My oil hasn't looked like that since I bought the car. I change it every 2k miles, The 2nd time I removed them I found fresh clean oil on all of them.
Even if they were not clogged fully, I am happy with the results, now my car is burning oil and I can see clean oil running threw all the lines.
-Shawn
11-15-2011, 07:31 AM
#23
The OMP lines are under pressure - significantly more pressure than can be created by engine vacuum.
The OMP is a positive-displacement pump, so it will continuously increase pressure as it tries to ram a pre-defined volume of oil through the lines.
If your banjo bolts are truly plugged (not likely), "sucking" them clean wont be any more effective that "blowing" them clean with pressurized oil.
What I always do on a new motor is turn the OMP up to its highest output (or step 60 or so) and watch the oil move through the lines.
There is no more definitive test than that.
The OMP is a positive-displacement pump, so it will continuously increase pressure as it tries to ram a pre-defined volume of oil through the lines.
If your banjo bolts are truly plugged (not likely), "sucking" them clean wont be any more effective that "blowing" them clean with pressurized oil.
What I always do on a new motor is turn the OMP up to its highest output (or step 60 or so) and watch the oil move through the lines.
There is no more definitive test than that.
Shawn how much suction was there on the removed OMP line with engine running?
Last edited by Nadrealista; 03-25-2013 at 08:27 AM.
11-15-2011, 07:53 AM
#24
Yes Nadrealista, Only a very little amount of oil came out the omp with the line removed, but just because its slow flowing, doesn't mean it can not build pressure.
I would like to know this number though. Hopefully MM will know it.
Blocking off the omp vacuum line defiantly increases the oil rate. In the 200ish miles driven between doing this (with the line capped) I can see the oil level has dropped a very noticeable amount. I'm attempting today to add some type of valve to the omp vacuum line to kind of have some control over it...
-Shawn
-EDIT-
Sorry missed that question. It seemed like none at first. But once we started revving the engine we got enough to suck the seamfoam in. I never tested it, but I would say almost none, the lines are very small.
I would like to know this number though. Hopefully MM will know it.
Blocking off the omp vacuum line defiantly increases the oil rate. In the 200ish miles driven between doing this (with the line capped) I can see the oil level has dropped a very noticeable amount. I'm attempting today to add some type of valve to the omp vacuum line to kind of have some control over it...
-Shawn
-EDIT-
Sorry missed that question. It seemed like none at first. But once we started revving the engine we got enough to suck the seamfoam in. I never tested it, but I would say almost none, the lines are very small.
Last edited by 1.3_LittersOfFurry; 11-20-2011 at 08:26 PM.
