Official word from Mazda on dyno'ing RX-8
10-16-2003, 04:51 AM
#276
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: So-Cali
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys:
To summarize here.. I think the RX-8 has never been, or ultimatley, about the #'s. It's really much more than that! Even Mazda should've realized this!
Did Mazda screw up, and maybe still continues too, sure. Is there outright deception on their part, that's for everyone on here to decide for themselves. But hopefully, this whole situation will not sour or effect the pleasure one gets from owning/enjoying this magnificent vehicle; as that would be a true shame. One should weigh all of the present evidence and make an informed as possible decision. The aftermarket, is starting to come on-line, and even Mazda might work a fix... I doubt it, but stranger things have happened. Just look at the present MazdaSpeed Protege update.
For those like me that were/are on the fence about the 8, and felt the car lacked torque from the very begining (original stated #'s)... we do know that there is a prototype Mazda(Speed) FI RX-8 running around the streets of So-Cal.... what does this means.. who knows.. but, I think I might wait to see what comes of it... also the idea of a small (RX-3??) Renesis powered RWD coupe sounds mighty appealing...
BTW, SEMA should be quite interesting this year. We are hearing that there will be from 1->3 FI RX-8s on display. Get there if you can.
Thanks to the enthusiast that have taken it on themselves to shed light and inform folks about all of the issues, on this and RN forums.
-Bern
To summarize here.. I think the RX-8 has never been, or ultimatley, about the #'s. It's really much more than that! Even Mazda should've realized this!
Did Mazda screw up, and maybe still continues too, sure. Is there outright deception on their part, that's for everyone on here to decide for themselves. But hopefully, this whole situation will not sour or effect the pleasure one gets from owning/enjoying this magnificent vehicle; as that would be a true shame. One should weigh all of the present evidence and make an informed as possible decision. The aftermarket, is starting to come on-line, and even Mazda might work a fix... I doubt it, but stranger things have happened. Just look at the present MazdaSpeed Protege update.
For those like me that were/are on the fence about the 8, and felt the car lacked torque from the very begining (original stated #'s)... we do know that there is a prototype Mazda(Speed) FI RX-8 running around the streets of So-Cal.... what does this means.. who knows.. but, I think I might wait to see what comes of it... also the idea of a small (RX-3??) Renesis powered RWD coupe sounds mighty appealing...
BTW, SEMA should be quite interesting this year. We are hearing that there will be from 1->3 FI RX-8s on display. Get there if you can.
Thanks to the enthusiast that have taken it on themselves to shed light and inform folks about all of the issues, on this and RN forums.
-Bern
Last edited by bern; 10-16-2003 at 05:14 AM.
10-16-2003, 07:51 AM
#277
Forum Vendor
While we are on the topic of FI RX-8's:
The reason we had occasion to contact Mazda directly is to see if they are planning a turbo or supercharged RX-8 anytime soon.
They claim that this is not in the works.
Naturally what MazdaSpeed does is a different kettle of fish.
We DID find out that at least one other party is developing a supercharger kit, and 3 are developing turbos.
That field seems to be very active!
The reason we had occasion to contact Mazda directly is to see if they are planning a turbo or supercharged RX-8 anytime soon.
They claim that this is not in the works.
Naturally what MazdaSpeed does is a different kettle of fish.
We DID find out that at least one other party is developing a supercharger kit, and 3 are developing turbos.
That field seems to be very active!
10-16-2003, 08:06 AM
#278
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: So-Cali
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by canzoomer
While we are on the topic of FI RX-8's:
The reason we had occasion to contact Mazda directly is to see if they are planning a turbo or supercharged RX-8 anytime soon.
They claim that this is not in the works.
Naturally what MazdaSpeed does is a different kettle of fish.
While we are on the topic of FI RX-8's:
The reason we had occasion to contact Mazda directly is to see if they are planning a turbo or supercharged RX-8 anytime soon.
They claim that this is not in the works.
Naturally what MazdaSpeed does is a different kettle of fish.
Originally posted by canzoomer
We DID find out that at least one other party is developing a supercharger kit, and 3 are developing turbos.
That field seems to be very active!
We DID find out that at least one other party is developing a supercharger kit, and 3 are developing turbos.
That field seems to be very active!
-Bern
Last edited by bern; 10-16-2003 at 08:09 AM.
10-16-2003, 08:14 AM
#279
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 572
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by bern
Guys:
To summarize here.. I think the RX-8 has never been, or ultimatley, about the #'s. It's really much more than that! Even Mazda should've realized this!
Did Mazda screw up, and maybe still continues too, sure. Is there outright deception on their part, that's for everyone on here to decide for themselves. But hopefully, this whole situation will not sour or effect the pleasure one gets from owning/enjoying this magnificent vehicle; .
Guys:
To summarize here.. I think the RX-8 has never been, or ultimatley, about the #'s. It's really much more than that! Even Mazda should've realized this!
Did Mazda screw up, and maybe still continues too, sure. Is there outright deception on their part, that's for everyone on here to decide for themselves. But hopefully, this whole situation will not sour or effect the pleasure one gets from owning/enjoying this magnificent vehicle; .
10-16-2003, 01:29 PM
#282
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, would the hug be a group hug with an RX-8 car in the mix, like the commercial ? 
On a side note... Its good to hear everyone is getting along reasonably well. I've been looking at this RX-8 for a while now and been sitting on the fence waiting for the dust to settle. Canzoomer's results are encouraging to say the least.
The only question I have is that IF the rx-8 ecu is crapping on the dynos (lets just say it does for this question), I would be hard pressed to buy almost any aftermarket parts which claim HP gain. How else are the aftermarket guys gonna tune their cars ? It just seems that most of the data on the gains would be invalid. For example the exhaust systems claiming ~9 HP in the high end (where the ecu would most likely interfere).
Otherwise... keep up the good work everyone.... and go hug your car.
On a side note... Its good to hear everyone is getting along reasonably well. I've been looking at this RX-8 for a while now and been sitting on the fence waiting for the dust to settle. Canzoomer's results are encouraging to say the least.
The only question I have is that IF the rx-8 ecu is crapping on the dynos (lets just say it does for this question), I would be hard pressed to buy almost any aftermarket parts which claim HP gain. How else are the aftermarket guys gonna tune their cars ? It just seems that most of the data on the gains would be invalid. For example the exhaust systems claiming ~9 HP in the high end (where the ecu would most likely interfere).
Otherwise... keep up the good work everyone.... and go hug your car.
10-17-2003, 08:55 AM
#283
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Greer, SC
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by bern
we do know that there is a prototype Mazda(Speed) FI RX-8 running around the streets of So-Cal.... appealing...
BTW, SEMA should be quite interesting this year. We are hearing that there will be from 1->3 FI RX-8s on display. Get there if you can.
-Bern
we do know that there is a prototype Mazda(Speed) FI RX-8 running around the streets of So-Cal.... appealing...
BTW, SEMA should be quite interesting this year. We are hearing that there will be from 1->3 FI RX-8s on display. Get there if you can.
-Bern
10-17-2003, 09:03 AM
#284
Originally posted by jtdwab
First What is a FI Rx-8?
First What is a FI Rx-8?
Dunno what SEMA is, prolly some US car show of some sort.
As to ECU craping out on dyno, invalidating any mods, CAnzoomer is road testing mods , and at the least feeling substantial power increase. And it been fairly well proved the ECu is happy on a dyno now(?).
Be intresting to see how our UK 231ps/228bhp RX-8's dyno.
10-17-2003, 04:12 PM
#287
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are lucky in that those of us doing it feel we are investing the time in the eventual production and sale of products for the RX-8, and are confident that there is enough of a market to recoup this and a small profit.
Of course, now I'm back to the "Prelude or rx8" dillemma again..
Why do I have to be so damned indecisive!
10-18-2003, 09:35 AM
#289
Forum Vendor
Originally posted by Fab 8
Canzoomer,
Have you received your J-spec ECUs yet? Are you going to tune that too? You have people over here in the far east interested too! :D
Canzoomer,
Have you received your J-spec ECUs yet? Are you going to tune that too? You have people over here in the far east interested too! :D
I will certainly do dome fuel/air metering with it, assuming it works, of course!
I suspect that what we will see will be pretty well in line with what we can do with existing fuel/air , but maybe the ignition timing may be different. It will be interesting to know...
10-18-2003, 09:45 AM
#290
I like cheese!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Little Rock, AR (was vegas)
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally posted by Tresch
Not to mention sales of the RX-8 itself! Those horsepower numbers were exactly what I was looking for...
Of course, now I'm back to the "Prelude or rx8" dillemma again..
Why do I have to be so damned indecisive!
Not to mention sales of the RX-8 itself! Those horsepower numbers were exactly what I was looking for...
Of course, now I'm back to the "Prelude or rx8" dillemma again..
Why do I have to be so damned indecisive!
:D
10-19-2003, 10:17 PM
#294
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will the modified fuel/air map meet MA emissions?
Great job, Canzoomer!
Do you know whether your controller will meet Massachusetts emissions standards? These are based on OBD data logs and have the following requirements:
Hydrocarbons < 0.8 grams/mile
Carbon monoxide < 15 grams/mile
Nitrogen oxides < 2 grams/mile
Do you know whether your controller will meet Massachusetts emissions standards? These are based on OBD data logs and have the following requirements:
Hydrocarbons < 0.8 grams/mile
Carbon monoxide < 15 grams/mile
Nitrogen oxides < 2 grams/mile
10-20-2003, 11:52 PM
#295
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Canzommer great work man, this is great stuff. This is definitely not a very smart question, but I am new to United States. Anyways, I have a question about complying with the US emissions standards and your fuel maps. Why are we worrying about the emissions, we can just switch the chips back to the normal ones when we go do the emission testing for our cars right?
In Hong Kong, I dun think our cars are tested for emission until its 10 years old. How does emission test work here in United States?
Last question, in terms of horsepower and torque increase. About how many horsepower are we really looking at? About 30 HP increase, if you go more aggressive do you think you can pull 40 to 50? How much do you think it will cost to do so? Is it still 750 dollars if I want to get the more aggresive maps?
haha please dun flame me for asking these questions, I am just a newbie in tuning cars..
In Hong Kong, I dun think our cars are tested for emission until its 10 years old. How does emission test work here in United States?
Last question, in terms of horsepower and torque increase. About how many horsepower are we really looking at? About 30 HP increase, if you go more aggressive do you think you can pull 40 to 50? How much do you think it will cost to do so? Is it still 750 dollars if I want to get the more aggresive maps?
haha please dun flame me for asking these questions, I am just a newbie in tuning cars..
10-21-2003, 12:10 AM
#296
Forum Vendor
Pardon me for my feelings, but I firmly believe there is a reason we have emissions laws.
The last two cars i built up had aftermarket low restriction cats installed in them, and while it cost me a bit, I think it is worth it.
Besides, think of this scenario:
You are driving dowwn the road when you get pulled over.
You have an aftermarket exhasut cat -back, and the tune kit installed.
So the officer, seeing you are a 19 year old asian, with a dyed haircut decides to impound your car.
And then it gets tested.
IF you pass the laws, they have to back off.
If not, pay the fines.
BTW, pardon the stereotype. It is not mine, but some cops certainly use it!
Also, some owners simply want a bolt on solution that will not cause too much heat and damage their cats..
As for the testing regimen, it varies by state. Some demand regular testing, some never test.
Performance?
We can get 30HP with fuel/air.
I think we can get 50HP with fuel/air, ignition timing and an aftermarket exhaust fairly readily.
This WILL require a free flow cat, or no cat.
Beyond that? No way. Then you better look at turbo or supercharging (or NOS).
The last two cars i built up had aftermarket low restriction cats installed in them, and while it cost me a bit, I think it is worth it.
Besides, think of this scenario:
You are driving dowwn the road when you get pulled over.
You have an aftermarket exhasut cat -back, and the tune kit installed.
So the officer, seeing you are a 19 year old asian, with a dyed haircut decides to impound your car.
And then it gets tested.
IF you pass the laws, they have to back off.
If not, pay the fines.
BTW, pardon the stereotype. It is not mine, but some cops certainly use it!
Also, some owners simply want a bolt on solution that will not cause too much heat and damage their cats..
As for the testing regimen, it varies by state. Some demand regular testing, some never test.
Performance?
We can get 30HP with fuel/air.
I think we can get 50HP with fuel/air, ignition timing and an aftermarket exhaust fairly readily.
This WILL require a free flow cat, or no cat.
Beyond that? No way. Then you better look at turbo or supercharging (or NOS).
10-21-2003, 09:11 AM
#297
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Canzoomer,
Say for example you had the stock cat but an aftermarket (and presumably at least a little better in terms of flow) intake and cat-back exhaust. Would you still have to use the 30HP version? Or would there be something intermediate to safely take advantage of the intake/exhaust? I too prefer to keep my cat, even though we don't test anymore in my part of Florida.
jds
Say for example you had the stock cat but an aftermarket (and presumably at least a little better in terms of flow) intake and cat-back exhaust. Would you still have to use the 30HP version? Or would there be something intermediate to safely take advantage of the intake/exhaust? I too prefer to keep my cat, even though we don't test anymore in my part of Florida.
jds
10-21-2003, 10:09 AM
#298
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks a lot Canzoomer, alright!! Come on finish your maps already, I can't wait (to lose my lisene)!!
In terms of exhaust and intake, what brands do you recommend? There are so many brands out there and to me they look all the same.
In terms of exhaust and intake, what brands do you recommend? There are so many brands out there and to me they look all the same.
10-21-2003, 12:58 PM
#299
Forum Vendor
Originally posted by bureau13
Canzoomer,
Say for example you had the stock cat but an aftermarket (and presumably at least a little better in terms of flow) intake and cat-back exhaust. Would you still have to use the 30HP version? Or would there be something intermediate to safely take advantage of the intake/exhaust? I too prefer to keep my cat, even though we don't test anymore in my part of Florida.
jds
Canzoomer,
Say for example you had the stock cat but an aftermarket (and presumably at least a little better in terms of flow) intake and cat-back exhaust. Would you still have to use the 30HP version? Or would there be something intermediate to safely take advantage of the intake/exhaust? I too prefer to keep my cat, even though we don't test anymore in my part of Florida.
jds
1 for stock exhaust and cats that will not run so hot as to cook the cats. 20-25HP gain.
A different one for a more tolerant exhaust with a high flow cat placed a bit further back, and a free flwo cat-back, like the Borla, for example. 30-35HP gain.
Right now we are just finishing up our tuning for this version.
10-21-2003, 01:03 PM
#300
Forum Vendor
Originally posted by x28
Thanks a lot Canzoomer, alright!! Come on finish your maps already, I can't wait (to lose my lisene)!!
In terms of exhaust and intake, what brands do you recommend? There are so many brands out there and to me they look all the same.
Thanks a lot Canzoomer, alright!! Come on finish your maps already, I can't wait (to lose my lisene)!!
In terms of exhaust and intake, what brands do you recommend? There are so many brands out there and to me they look all the same.
One thing the stock one does extremely well is ram air effect, and as far as so-called "cold air" intakes go there is not much to be gained over the stock one. It draws right at the front, and little hot air gets sucked in.
As for exhaust the Borla looks decent, and we are tuning with it soon.
I plan to experiment on my car with some Magnaflows and a custom made exhaust soon, and I will then be able to post some comparisons, probably in about 2 weeks.