My engine rebuild.
06-11-2010, 01:15 AM
#301
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Then you don't try to start it until it does. May mean you dont have enough oil in the pan. Only maybe 1 out of 25 engines I install will have priming issues. In extreme cases you can overfill the crankcase temporarily to help fill the oil pump and get it flowing, or move the car to a hill where the nose faces down which will also help fill the oil pump and prime it. Basicaly though, you just continue to crank the engine with the starter until you have oil flow/pressure.
06-11-2010, 02:28 AM
#305
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Did you inject some oil into the chambers after assembly of the block? You can't start one when the internals are dry...the oil gets between the seals and housings and fills the gaps, temporarily boosting compression and helping it start. I am not a builder who slathers the internals in vaseline etc. nor motor oil. I only hand lube the bearings slightly and leave the rest mostly dry. After the block is bolted together and tensioned down I inject oil into the plug holes to build compression. I wait until then so there is no chance that stay oil will seep onto the coolant seals and cause a leak/poor seal.
EDIT: after re reading your post perhaps you mean you have no spark? I took it to mean your plugs were wet but it wasn't starting, which can be a sign of flooding, aka low compression...but if you have no spark obviously compression isn't the issue.
EDIT: after re reading your post perhaps you mean you have no spark? I took it to mean your plugs were wet but it wasn't starting, which can be a sign of flooding, aka low compression...but if you have no spark obviously compression isn't the issue.
06-11-2010, 01:04 PM
#310
This cost me my last engine, even though I fixed it as soon as it was noticed.
If you run the motor at all this way, it will walk the front stationary gear bearing and front rotor bearing. The wobble will eventually destroy everything in the front chamber in a spectacular, catastrophic way. (I'll post up pics of my destruction later.)
You have to take the front cover off to fix it. No choice in that. DO NOT RUN THE MOTOR AT ALL THIS WAY.
Next time, when you are assembling the front, note the depth of the main nut in front. It has to be 10 - 11mm. Any more than that and you will know something is wrong.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 06-11-2010 at 01:07 PM.
06-11-2010, 01:18 PM
#311
Yea I figured... well luckily for whatever reason it didn't even start so its time to drain the fluids again and pull it all... this **** blows ***.
Do you think we need to pull the engine to since there's a good chance it'll just get out of place again if its pan side down?
Do you think we need to pull the engine to since there's a good chance it'll just get out of place again if its pan side down?
06-11-2010, 01:27 PM
#312
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Before you do that, check end play (which you should have done before install). IF you have zero, then yes, go ahead and pull it. IF you have the prescribed 1.5-3.5, then the thrust bearings are fine.
It will be obvious if you have let a thrust bearing slip, because it will have been crushed by the spacer ring when you tightened down the front bolt.
Yes, if run this way, it can destroy the engine and send bearing material and metal through the oiling system, requiring a full flush and part replacement.
FWIW, crushed thrust bearings would not cause the e-shaft or pullies to wobble. IT would only affect end play of the shaft and spacing of the pulley to the front of the engine. The stat gear/main bearing holds the shaft centered and steady.
It will be obvious if you have let a thrust bearing slip, because it will have been crushed by the spacer ring when you tightened down the front bolt.
Yes, if run this way, it can destroy the engine and send bearing material and metal through the oiling system, requiring a full flush and part replacement.
FWIW, crushed thrust bearings would not cause the e-shaft or pullies to wobble. IT would only affect end play of the shaft and spacing of the pulley to the front of the engine. The stat gear/main bearing holds the shaft centered and steady.
06-11-2010, 01:32 PM
#313
Been there, done that.
In theory, you are correct, but the reality is that the pulley will actually wobble.
I haven't given too much brain-space to figuring out why that is, but having done exactly this and witnessing the result, I can tell you that the main pulley will wobble quite a bit and will be protruding forward a few mm off the proper belt axis.
The front cover can be removed with the motor still in the car, so don't pull the whole motor.
06-11-2010, 01:34 PM
#315
06-11-2010, 01:36 PM
#317
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Unfortunately, incorrect.
Been there, done that.
In theory, you are correct, but the reality is that the pulley will actually wobble.
I haven't given too much brain-space to figuring out why that is, but having done exactly this and witnessing the result, I can tell you that the main pulley will wobble quite a bit and will be protruding forward a few mm off the proper belt axis.
The front cover can be removed with the motor still in the car, so don't pull the whole motor.
Been there, done that.
In theory, you are correct, but the reality is that the pulley will actually wobble.
I haven't given too much brain-space to figuring out why that is, but having done exactly this and witnessing the result, I can tell you that the main pulley will wobble quite a bit and will be protruding forward a few mm off the proper belt axis.
The front cover can be removed with the motor still in the car, so don't pull the whole motor.
The fact remains that if endplay is currently correct, the thrust bearings cannot be crushed. IF they were, there would be zero endplay. The only variable is how accurately he is able to measure endplay.
06-11-2010, 01:47 PM
#320
I've worked on several cars for people who did some sort of front cover or pulley swap and let this happen, and never seen a pulley wobble at all. Maybe yours was unique.
The fact remains that if endplay is currently correct, the thrust bearings cannot be crushed. IF they were, there would be zero endplay. The only variable is how accurately he is able to measure endplay.
The fact remains that if endplay is currently correct, the thrust bearings cannot be crushed. IF they were, there would be zero endplay. The only variable is how accurately he is able to measure endplay.
06-11-2010, 01:53 PM
#323
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To be more detailed:
We put the dial indicator on a magnetic stand. Put all pulleys and BS on the E Shaft. Torqued down the bolt to 150ftlbs (FSM said something really high). Put the dial indicator stand on the front housing and magnetized it. Made sure that the dial indicator was perpendicular to the pulley's outer most lip. Locked down the dial indicator with it's shaft pushed in half-way. Zerod out the indicator. Lifted the flywheel for measurement. Did this couple times to get the average, which was in spec.
We put the dial indicator on a magnetic stand. Put all pulleys and BS on the E Shaft. Torqued down the bolt to 150ftlbs (FSM said something really high). Put the dial indicator stand on the front housing and magnetized it. Made sure that the dial indicator was perpendicular to the pulley's outer most lip. Locked down the dial indicator with it's shaft pushed in half-way. Zerod out the indicator. Lifted the flywheel for measurement. Did this couple times to get the average, which was in spec.
06-11-2010, 01:58 PM
#325
To be more detailed:
We put the dial indicator on a magnetic stand. Put all pulleys and BS on the E Shaft. Torqued down the bolt to 150ftlbs (FSM said something really high). Put the dial indicator stand on the front housing and magnetized it. Made sure that the dial indicator was perpendicular to the pulley's outer most lip. Locked down the dial indicator with it's shaft pushed in half-way. Zerod out the indicator. Lifted the flywheel for measurement. Did this couple times to get the average, which was in spec.
We put the dial indicator on a magnetic stand. Put all pulleys and BS on the E Shaft. Torqued down the bolt to 150ftlbs (FSM said something really high). Put the dial indicator stand on the front housing and magnetized it. Made sure that the dial indicator was perpendicular to the pulley's outer most lip. Locked down the dial indicator with it's shaft pushed in half-way. Zerod out the indicator. Lifted the flywheel for measurement. Did this couple times to get the average, which was in spec.