Mazmarts oil pressure bypass install with some surprising findings!
03-25-2010, 09:25 AM
#201
A couple days ago, I got caught in an hour long traffic jam on an 8-lane expressway. Last year, before the op and cooling mods, in a similar situation, the car started to overheat, run rough, and generally balk at the 5 mph average speed. This time, smooth and cool! We'll see what happens in the heat of summer later on in the year.
03-25-2010, 09:38 AM
#202
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
A couple days ago, I got caught in an hour long traffic jam on an 8-lane expressway. Last year, before the op and cooling mods, in a similar situation, the car started to overheat, run rough, and generally balk at the 5 mph average speed. This time, smooth and cool! We'll see what happens in the heat of summer later on in the year.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 03-25-2010 at 09:50 AM.
03-28-2010, 12:34 PM
#203
...pondering...
I've seen a couple comments about leaks caused by the higher pressures. Is this common or is there a specific reason why few individuals have experienced this. Trying to gather info on if I should be considering this mod (I don't do hardly any track time and I run 5w-30 redline, just switched to Amsoil in my 8)
03-28-2010, 10:02 PM
#206
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I thought I had a leak but it turned out I nicked my SOHN feed line, replaced it today, all is good. Car is running great max Pressure is around 135psi now. Remember, I don't have the stock oil coolers or lines.
08-23-2010, 10:10 AM
#209
Anyone try the Racing Beat oil pressure mod?
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
It max's out at 95 psi but only changes the rear bypass regulator.
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
It max's out at 95 psi but only changes the rear bypass regulator.
After the mod, you have to shim the front relieve valve, 1 should be enough.
08-23-2010, 12:39 PM
#210
Super Moderator
If you are doing the Mazmart By Pass valve up grade, all they are supplying is the FD RX-7 valve.
The RX-7 uses the SAME Oil Filter as the Series 1 RX-8, so there can't be an issue with your Oil Filter going into By Pass Mode...or "Series I filter collapse under the increased pressure?"
THE issue in regards to Oil Filter is 09~ Owners/Engine using a Series 1 Oil Filter, not the other way around.
The RX-7 uses the SAME Oil Filter as the Series 1 RX-8, so there can't be an issue with your Oil Filter going into By Pass Mode...or "Series I filter collapse under the increased pressure?"
THE issue in regards to Oil Filter is 09~ Owners/Engine using a Series 1 Oil Filter, not the other way around.
08-23-2010, 12:50 PM
#211
^^^ Thanks Ash8
I have an 05 RX8 so....
That's sort of what I thought but wasn't 100% sure if it was required (or strongly recommended) to use the Series II vs the Series I filter for this mod.
This makes me happy as I still have 4 new series I filters in a box.
I have an 05 RX8 so....
That's sort of what I thought but wasn't 100% sure if it was required (or strongly recommended) to use the Series II vs the Series I filter for this mod.
This makes me happy as I still have 4 new series I filters in a box.
Last edited by wcs; 08-23-2010 at 12:52 PM.
08-24-2010, 10:51 AM
#212
I'm using Series II filters and the Mazmart op mod on my '06. With the Prosport adapter plate, it does fit if you saw off a bit of the plastic holder mounted on the firewall that it interferes with. (I posted pics of this somewhere earlier in this thread). I thought one pretty much had to use the Series II filter, because otherwise the filter bypass opens too early running the higher pressure with the Series I.
08-24-2010, 10:53 AM
#213
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I'm using Series II filters and the Mazmart op mod on my '06. With the Prosport adapter plate, it does fit if you saw off a bit of the plastic holder mounted on the firewall that it interferes with. (I posted pics of this somewhere earlier in this thread). I thought one pretty much had to use the Series II filter, because otherwise the filter bypass opens too early running the higher pressure with the Series I.
What is weird is that I too am using the Prosport adapter plate and 09 filters and I have no clearance issues. I don't get it.
08-26-2010, 09:12 AM
#214
Extraordinary Engineering
WCS and I did this mod last night... into early this morning....
First time taking the oil pan off the 8
We had a little issue I'd like to bring to the attention of others doing this mod.
Once my car was back together it had little to no oil pressure.
What we figured happened was the little cap that goes on top of the front regulator spring had stayed in place but somehow dropped into a shop towel while we were inserting the shims in the bottom bolt. We didn't notice this and, not being really familiar with this regulator, put the car back together added oil and started. Oops.
Once we found the part in the part in the shop towel it all made sense....
But it meant doing most of the work over on my car.
(and pulling an all-nighter)
Please, if you do this mod, check that this part is in place before you seal up the pan.
Edit: Some other stuff I just thought of.
The ideal tool for removing the oil pressure regulator is a 26mm (I think; double check with the new part) deep 6 point socket. We didn't have one and it made life tougher.
The front regulator bolt is 23mm
First time taking the oil pan off the 8
We had a little issue I'd like to bring to the attention of others doing this mod.
Once my car was back together it had little to no oil pressure.
What we figured happened was the little cap that goes on top of the front regulator spring had stayed in place but somehow dropped into a shop towel while we were inserting the shims in the bottom bolt. We didn't notice this and, not being really familiar with this regulator, put the car back together added oil and started. Oops.
Once we found the part in the part in the shop towel it all made sense....
But it meant doing most of the work over on my car.
(and pulling an all-nighter)Please, if you do this mod, check that this part is in place before you seal up the pan.
Edit: Some other stuff I just thought of.
The ideal tool for removing the oil pressure regulator is a 26mm (I think; double check with the new part) deep 6 point socket. We didn't have one and it made life tougher.
The front regulator bolt is 23mm
Last edited by DarkBrew; 09-02-2010 at 01:19 PM.
09-24-2010, 04:02 AM
#216
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Anyone try the Racing Beat oil pressure mod?
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
It max's out at 95 psi but only changes the rear bypass regulator.
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
It max's out at 95 psi but only changes the rear bypass regulator.
I will be installing the RB mod instead of the Remedy.
09-24-2010, 09:22 AM
#221
Extraordinary Engineering
K
We under shimmed the front regulator when we did the MM mod
this was intentional to keep pressure down a bit lower than what we were seeing in this thread...
I can always rip off the pan again ...
We under shimmed the front regulator when we did the MM mod
this was intentional to keep pressure down a bit lower than what we were seeing in this thread...
I can always rip off the pan again ...
10-04-2010, 04:10 AM
#223
Registered
Well, please take a min in order to understand what Dr Hass is telling us about pressure and lubrication !
Most believe that pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be using 90 grade oil.
As a result, should we try increase the pressure that will decrease the flow and the lubrication ? I think not.
Most believe that pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be using 90 grade oil.
Lets Talk Motor Oil – It is So Very Misunderstood
Chapter One - Motor Oil 101
....................
..........................
It is time to introduce the concept of lubrication. Most believe that pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be using 90 grade oil. Lubrication is used to separate moving parts, to keep them from touching. There is a one to one relationship between flow and separation. If you double the flow you will double the separation pressure in a bearing. The pressure at the bearing entrance is irrelevant.
In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition. If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up. It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up. They are inversely related. Conversely if you choose a thinner oil then the pressure will go down. This can only occur if the flow has increased.
It seems then that we should all be using the thinnest oil money can buy. This is partly true. Let me use my old 575 Ferrari Maranello as an example. I drove this car around town. The manual of this car states the target pressure is 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM. The gold standard is that all engines should have a pressure of 10 PSI for every 1,000 RPM of operation, not more, not less. After all, you do need some pressure to move that oil along, but only enough pressure, not more. More pressure is not better, it can only result from the impedance of oil flow. Remember that oil flow is the only thing that does the lubricating.
Note that Ferrari is not saying what thickness of oil to use. That can only be determined by experimentation. My engine oil temperature was running around 185 F as I drove around town on a hot Florida summer day. I have found that the thinnest oil I can buy that is API / SAE certified is Mobil 1’s thinnest oil. Even with this oil I get 80 PSI at 2,000 RPM. It is too thick for my application yet it is the thinnest oil money can buy. If I was on a hot Florida track in mid-summer the oil temperature would probably get up to 302 F. I will guess that the pressure would only be 40 PSI at 6,000 RPM. The oil I am using would not meet the requirement of 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM from Ferrari. I would have to choose a thicker oil for this racing situation. The oil I use now would be too thin at that very high temperature. (This is only partly true. Higher RPM running engines use thinner and thinner oils to get more and more flow. I will discuss this later).
High flow does more than lubricate. It is one of the things used to cool the hottest parts of your engine, the pistons, valve areas and bearings. This cooling effect is as important as lubrication in your engine. If your engine is running hot you may need to use a thinner oil. The flow will increase and so will the cooling. This is even more important in the racing condition.
................
................
.................
I repeat: More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. This is why multi-viscosity oils were developed.
Source: Motor Oil Articles by Dr. Ali E. Haas
This is the end of lesson number one.
Chapter One - Motor Oil 101
....................
..........................
It is time to introduce the concept of lubrication. Most believe that pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be using 90 grade oil. Lubrication is used to separate moving parts, to keep them from touching. There is a one to one relationship between flow and separation. If you double the flow you will double the separation pressure in a bearing. The pressure at the bearing entrance is irrelevant.
In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition. If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up. It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up. They are inversely related. Conversely if you choose a thinner oil then the pressure will go down. This can only occur if the flow has increased.
It seems then that we should all be using the thinnest oil money can buy. This is partly true. Let me use my old 575 Ferrari Maranello as an example. I drove this car around town. The manual of this car states the target pressure is 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM. The gold standard is that all engines should have a pressure of 10 PSI for every 1,000 RPM of operation, not more, not less. After all, you do need some pressure to move that oil along, but only enough pressure, not more. More pressure is not better, it can only result from the impedance of oil flow. Remember that oil flow is the only thing that does the lubricating.
Note that Ferrari is not saying what thickness of oil to use. That can only be determined by experimentation. My engine oil temperature was running around 185 F as I drove around town on a hot Florida summer day. I have found that the thinnest oil I can buy that is API / SAE certified is Mobil 1’s thinnest oil. Even with this oil I get 80 PSI at 2,000 RPM. It is too thick for my application yet it is the thinnest oil money can buy. If I was on a hot Florida track in mid-summer the oil temperature would probably get up to 302 F. I will guess that the pressure would only be 40 PSI at 6,000 RPM. The oil I am using would not meet the requirement of 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM from Ferrari. I would have to choose a thicker oil for this racing situation. The oil I use now would be too thin at that very high temperature. (This is only partly true. Higher RPM running engines use thinner and thinner oils to get more and more flow. I will discuss this later).
High flow does more than lubricate. It is one of the things used to cool the hottest parts of your engine, the pistons, valve areas and bearings. This cooling effect is as important as lubrication in your engine. If your engine is running hot you may need to use a thinner oil. The flow will increase and so will the cooling. This is even more important in the racing condition.
................
................
.................
I repeat: More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. This is why multi-viscosity oils were developed.
Source: Motor Oil Articles by Dr. Ali E. Haas
This is the end of lesson number one.
As a result, should we try increase the pressure that will decrease the flow and the lubrication ? I think not.
10-04-2010, 04:45 AM
#224
Super Moderator
I guess Mazda got it wrong when they increased Oil Pressure in the RENESIS II engine.??
BTW: Both S1 and S2 Oil Pressure 'numbers' released by Mazda Officially for US markets used 5W20 oil.
But yes, I agree, a higher viscosity Oil will show/give a slightly higher OP, just look at Europe markets where 5W30 is used or recommended by factory.
BTW: Both S1 and S2 Oil Pressure 'numbers' released by Mazda Officially for US markets used 5W20 oil.
But yes, I agree, a higher viscosity Oil will show/give a slightly higher OP, just look at Europe markets where 5W30 is used or recommended by factory.
10-04-2010, 06:11 AM
#225
Registered
Mazda already done a lot of mistakes, why not making another one? Remember Renesis I OMP and compare it to Renesis II OMP. Renesis II OMP is improved over Renesis I according to Mazda but we just wait to see the results.
Renesis II OMP has 3 oil injectors per rotor vs 2 oil injectors in Renesis I. As a result, an increase in oil pressure may be required otherwise flow is affected throw the oil system. But here we have a different OMP.
Having Renesis I or Renesis II (and not comparing those two) by increasing the pressure you decrease the flow according to Dr Hass.
I do not see any benefit of increasing the oil pressure. Have you find any one? If yes which is it and how can we measure its effectiveness ?
Renesis II OMP has 3 oil injectors per rotor vs 2 oil injectors in Renesis I. As a result, an increase in oil pressure may be required otherwise flow is affected throw the oil system. But here we have a different OMP.
Having Renesis I or Renesis II (and not comparing those two) by increasing the pressure you decrease the flow according to Dr Hass.
I do not see any benefit of increasing the oil pressure. Have you find any one? If yes which is it and how can we measure its effectiveness ?