olddragger

iTrader: (3)

A few of our group got together yesterday for a "tuner" day. We installed 2 of the modified oil bypass kits on members cars and had some surprising findings. It was very interesting.

Ok some of the findings that we saw are:

1- Guess how much oil is left in the pan after it has been drained until it stops dripping?. The car is up level on jack stands , dealerships etc would also have it level if they change your oil.
Would you believe 1LITER of oil oil is left behind in the pan.
Thats a lot of oil! This is very true--we observed and recorded this in 2 members cars! 1 frigging liter of old oil remains in the OIL PAN and more is in the coolers and lines. Thats a lot of oil oil that doesnt get changed out
The oil remains because of the oil pan baffles present and the plug hole is a little too far up on the side.
To Paul and I this makes for a strong cause to use an evacuator when you change the oil as you should be able to get more out. Course jacking up different sides of the car should help also but thats a pida to do.
I never realized there was this much left in the pan after draining..

2- The 09 oil filter will not fit on the pre 09 IF you have a Racing Beat oil adaptor installed---this makes it too tall to clear the firewall----damn! (Addentum--seems with some slight mods the 09 will fit. More to follow)

3-- oil pressures with the bypass kit can vary from engine to engine. The start up pressures on an engine that has had an e shaft pellet modification will be higher than the engine that has the oem e pellet system in place. However after the oil warms and the pellet is closed the pressures will be very similar. The e pellet difference on start up oil pressure was interesting to see. With the cold e pellet the oil pressure was much lower--almost like stock. As soon as the oil started warming up (over 140F) you could see the oil pressure rising!
Please also remember that different viscosity and temps cause different pressure readings.

One members oil at 180F and a 10W/40 dino oil was 100psi at almost 4Krpms.
We learned some good things to know.
Pictures to follow via SilverEight (hes the Man!) and more info to come.
So far very successful!
olddragger

ASH8

Interesting OD about the Oil left behind in the Sump...sorry Oil Pan.

On a side note, when I did my 20K service (S2) and drained the oil my catcher said there was 4.0 litres, with a new filter I put in 4.2 litres...without a filter 4. (book says 4.2 and 4.4 litres), but from a totally DRY engine it takes 7 litres, so that is 2.6 left behind and in the coolers...for S2.

For S1 3.5 litres with Oil Filter and 6.4L totally DRY engine, so 2.9 litres left behind.

According to Mazda WS manual.

So we are talking around 46-48% of your OLD Oil is reused if you can not get it out!!

Another reason why I double flush.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

****, that much oil in the pan? There is not as much in the stock coolers as people think though. Guy I'll be switching to Rotella and double flushing.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Ah o - note to self: double flush the new engine. I still need to swap out that oil pressure gauge...

b'Eight'

Pela Pump 6000 oil extractor. I've used mine since the first oil change. I now have 40K miles on the odometer. I may drain from the plug next change just because but this device definitely makes changing the oil so much easier. And the car remains level.

robrecht

Yeah, that's what I use to, so much easier, and you get out almost as much oil as sequentially jacking up each side of the car.

Mawnee

I just hang my car upside down and drain it out of the filler cap. A few good shakes and I know I got it all out.

But seriously, great info OD

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Are we at BHR persona non grata or will I be allowed to share my particular experiences/knowledge on this matter in this thread?

Lemme know.............

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

go for it!

I know I can't speak for others, but I personally would like to know your findings.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

before I add oil I will ...

always jack my car driver side up first, drain, let it down, jack the other side up, let it down, jack the driver side up again, drain

Its pretty complicated, but its not that hard, when it drain, I usually gonna leave it there for at least 15 minutes. go have a quick snack or lunch.

I can get almost 6 quart of oil out everytime. so Im happy.

SilverEIGHT

As Denny said, I have pics and vids to present. Very good session and good observations. I will try to get some of this up by this evening.

L8APEX

I wish I could have made it out to join you guys. But I had other car issues to work on, and needed to be at home to do it. Look forward to seeing the photos, and hearing more about it. Eventually, I will probably do this mod too, and good to know how much oil is left behind, I will have to look into the extractor that was mentioned.

Mazurfer

Yeah, I'll pretty much jack up the drivers side, then passenger, then back to drivers. Let each sit about 10-15 minutes. I find that this allows me the oppurtunity to check out other things while the car is jacked up.
Extractor sounds good though.........might have to look into that.

PhillipM

Just buy a drum of crap oil and flush that throgh it at every change, it's only adding 5 minutes to the job after all.

That much old oil/debris ain't good though!

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Ray--any thread I start you are more than welcome to post in. You never need to ask dude?
OD

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

In other words, getting the normal amount of oil out, you only change about 55% of oil, 45% remains dirty.

After a double flush, you get 55% of the old oil out again, still leaving 25% of the old stuff behind.

It seems the best option is to get more oil out in the first place; I'm liking the suggestions as to how to do that.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Thanks, guys.....

Here goes;

I know that I have nowhere near the experience of other engine builders in the rotary/Renesis world but in the several engines I have built I have never seen evidence of the oil pressure/bearing wear concern that others seem to worry about except with ONE engine. With every engine build I do I measure all the dimensions and clearances (3x) and document the clearances I find. The maintenence regimens have been different for each one of these engines, too.

Easy_E1 and I have asked around to the rotary engine builders we know about operating pressure modifications and, although we are told that "it works", none of them can explain how they have come to their particular conclusions.

I am not saying that raising the operarting pressure does NOT work, only that nobody can explain it to us in a manner that convinces us it is necessary and nobody seems to be able to define their use of the word "work". One of these guys had his hands on a Renesis before anyone outside of Mazda did and even he couldn't explain it.

Please remember that BHR is founded on the idea that fewer than 1% of those of us who modify our cars actually need the racing-application-type mods we often discuss on this forum. I spend much of my time steering our potential customers away from stuff they do not/will not need (even BHR product) and with my particular experiences on the Renesis I am not seeing the same things that others seem to be.

As far as fully flushing your oil; do all that you can but if you simply make sure to have clean oil in your pan and change it when it gets dirty, you should be fine.

My particular maintenence regimen involves little more than cleaning the air filter and changing the oil and oil filter when the oil gets dirty, regardless of mileage.

SilverEIGHT

I don't have time to add text to these images right now. I will have to do that later. I'm categorizing them in 4 sections. Install, Oil filter, Oil and gauges. Let me say first that I'm not advocating this is some magical fix all for anything! I did this because I personally think higher oil pressure means for better lubrication. This is not an endorsement by any means of this product. Only that I wanted to try it out and report my findings. Plus, hanging with my friends wrenching on our cars is a great way to spend a Saturday.

Install:























Oil Filter:





Oil:







Gauges:

This is from my car, Jason did not have gauges.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Charles what are you thoughts on the fact that Mazda increased the OP on the Series II rx8's?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

My thoughts are that we have no idea WHY they did that and anything else is simply presumption. I recently decided to alter the manner in which I prepare the wiring harness on the BHR Ignition System. Does that imply there was a problem with all other harnesses I have built before then?

Opinions I have that I share with others MUST be based strictly on that which I have seen/experienced/know because anything other than that is simply gossip-mongering. That is my only point here.

Something to keep in mind; many of the problems inherent in the RX-8 were discovered, discussed, and articulated by whom and when?

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for posting Ray. Hope i can help clarify some things.
1st---bearing wear has NEVER been associated with oil pressure problems. That is a oil viscosity problem per Rick. Viscosity being related to film strenght of the oil. It is not a pressure thing at all.
2- the Renesis engine cannot maintain factory recommend oil pressures in it's oem condition
3- The 09's changed the lubrication system. Rational thinking would indicate that makes it better. Deductive reasoning is sometimes all you have to go on when you dont have factory resources to study a problem. For example--- does the ls1 coil and oem dwell times actually improve our ignition (no pot shots meant!) Well deductive reasoning and logic would say "Why-- Hell yea!" and I would agree.
4- prelimanary evidence indicated that the oil takes less time to warm up as it is scrubbing more heat out of the engine with the higher pressures. Continues under study.

uh oh boss just called more later

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

I have the crappy old BHR ignition system. Well, it must be crappy since BHR has a new and improved production process, right? j/k I generally find that prototypes are superior, after which 'value engineering' raises its ugly head.

We certainly are a fickle bunch. I do try to resist any mod's that I haven't been able to rigorously prove to myself, beyond a reasonable doubt, have a real value in performance, man-machine operation, or aesthetics enhancement.

That's not to say I'm not intrigued and impressed by the pioneers here, but I would agree that most of these type upgrades are only needed by a very small percentage of enthusiasts, OP excepted.

SleepeR1st

iTrader: (2)

^^ +1 for Charles

So many people are worried about extreme maintenance measures, and treating their RX8 to the absolute cream of the crop for extended life/maintenance modifications.

What for exactly? A good friend of mine, locally, has a series 1 RX8, with the latest PCM updates, no other "maintenance" modifications. He changes his oil (5w-30/10w-30) around 3000-4000 miles, or usually whenever he gets to it. Drives the **** out of the car whenever he can.

His engine, last time i talked to him, had 130k miles, it is his daily driver. He still nets 20mpg. He has not done a compression check, or vacuum check, why bother if it runs perfect?

Just drive the damn car, it will take care of you.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Hey who is the old fart on the ground? J/K

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Only to serve as an example;

The newest iterations of our wiring harness are vastly superior to the units we first sent out. That is one reason I am happily offering updating them and "refurbing" kits when the kits change hands in the resale market. There is nothing functionally improper with them, just that the first versions are butt-ugly and embarrassing to ME when compared to how I prep the harnesses these days. Strictly ego-driven.

I still think many of us are presuming WAY too much on this oil pressure/viscosity issue and I am always entertained by just how much conversation such topics will generate around here. Engman is one of the few remaining Gods in my eyes but his vast experience differs greatly from mine so he and Paul can take the lead on oil pressure/viscosity issues. However, I will be reluctant to jump into that particular realm until we at BHR can verify for ourselves exactly WTF is going on, if anything. On the other hand, BHR specializes in only the Renesis and the OBDII technology that operates the RX-8 and we are only starting to dip our collective toes into the older rotary world.

In my experience, we at BHR have subjected our personal engines to many of the same things which are said to be engine-killers around here but our engines perform exactly as we would expect. Maybe better, in some cases.