Allright what's the truth about oil
04-22-2010, 11:26 AM
#51
Correct, I have never pre-mixed on a regular basis nor for anything serious. I have tried it from time to time but I think with the OMP volumes Jeff set up for me I do not need to. We'll see what the outcomes may be when I set about rebuilding my engine (again), which will be sometime soon.
is this something you find it "fun" to do on a daily basics ? lol
04-22-2010, 11:46 AM
#52
This would be only the second time for my personal engine. I rebuilt my engine the first time at 49,540 miles. I am now at 114,000+ miles and I am still using the original housings so my engine is probably a bit low on compression, especially since my first rebuild was nothing like how I do them now. I am still in the 200-210 rwhp range amd likely to get more with a fresh engine.
I HATE pulling engines, don't mind rebuilding them (it's a nice change from building coil kits all day sometimes), and much prefer to see my work in action on the dyno. The combination of my rebuilding Renesis engines (with Easy_E1's obsession for cleanliness while helping me), Jeff's tuning of them, and the huge grins our customers have when we are done is where my self-satisfaction lay.
I HATE pulling engines, don't mind rebuilding them (it's a nice change from building coil kits all day sometimes), and much prefer to see my work in action on the dyno. The combination of my rebuilding Renesis engines (with Easy_E1's obsession for cleanliness while helping me), Jeff's tuning of them, and the huge grins our customers have when we are done is where my self-satisfaction lay.
hope u dont mind me to ask, is it by tunning? did ya port your engine? or combination ?
04-22-2010, 12:23 PM
#55
lol you're right I suppose...
Aparently bridge-porting is best when used on RX7 engines I assume because the intake port is 40% smaller than the Renesis.
The large amounts of intake-exhaust overlap typically results in the powerband moving further up in the rev range. So would this
re not cause the max HP at 8500 rpms to move higher and produce more hp? For the 8's case?
Aparently bridge-porting is best when used on RX7 engines I assume because the intake port is 40% smaller than the Renesis.
The large amounts of intake-exhaust overlap typically results in the powerband moving further up in the rev range. So would this
re not cause the max HP at 8500 rpms to move higher and produce more hp? For the 8's case?
04-22-2010, 04:18 PM
#58
If we ever do, the advantage BHR may have in presenting our findings is that MazdaManiac and I can examine the airflow curve and comment about it because we sure as hell will look at the MAF sensor readings both before and after, plus compare both those numbers to the average Renesis that he tunes.
04-22-2010, 04:27 PM
#59
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That was the last rotary engine I ever ported! It sucked! Your engine has lots of epoxy in the port transition which would make many people cringe. I use it too though! Always have.
04-22-2010, 10:32 PM
#61
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....should stop seeing red every time the subject comes up...we agree on more than you think. The only synthetic I would use is Idemistsu's and Mazda's own, and none of the others, but since I don't need to, I won't...get the picture?
04-22-2010, 10:49 PM
#62
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....the clearances on the side seals are "horrible" because you stripped down a brand new engine and checked?
my first engine "failure" happened for 2 primary reasons, first one being apex seal lock because of carbon or some other kind of deposit build up, I suspected lousy fuel! Second reason was the extremely high engine temperatures reached causing the rotary housing to literally warp, hence a "failure" in the side seals etc...,(maybe that would given me the "horrible" clearances)I suspect caused by the 5w-20 oil spec, which is far too light!
Now I use the highest AKI fuel and a 10w-40 and everything is cool.
my first engine "failure" happened for 2 primary reasons, first one being apex seal lock because of carbon or some other kind of deposit build up, I suspected lousy fuel! Second reason was the extremely high engine temperatures reached causing the rotary housing to literally warp, hence a "failure" in the side seals etc...,(maybe that would given me the "horrible" clearances)I suspect caused by the 5w-20 oil spec, which is far too light!
Now I use the highest AKI fuel and a 10w-40 and everything is cool.
Renesis engine durability seems to be primarily aligned with the OMP volumes being injected at various load points, and secondarily from actual engine-build quality.
IMO, and that of Paul Yaw as well, the side seal clearances on a factory-built Renesis are HORRIBLE and usually out of spec. That may be why we see wildly varying power levels as delivered from the factory.
As for whether or not synthetic burns well enough for the Renesis; although I have been using the Sohn OMP Adapter for the last 70K miles, I use Royal Purple 2-Stroke oil in it. Maybe the only oil we need for longevity is something other than dirty-*** oil coming from the crankcase.
IMO, and that of Paul Yaw as well, the side seal clearances on a factory-built Renesis are HORRIBLE and usually out of spec. That may be why we see wildly varying power levels as delivered from the factory.
As for whether or not synthetic burns well enough for the Renesis; although I have been using the Sohn OMP Adapter for the last 70K miles, I use Royal Purple 2-Stroke oil in it. Maybe the only oil we need for longevity is something other than dirty-*** oil coming from the crankcase.
04-22-2010, 10:51 PM
#63
....the clearances on the side seals are "horrible" because you stripped down a brand new engine and checked?
my first engine "failure" happened for 2 primary reasons, first one being apex seal lock because of carbon or some other kind of deposit build up, I suspected lousy fuel! Second reason was the extremely high engine temperatures reached causing the rotary housing to literally warp, hence a "failure" in the side seals etc...,(maybe that would given me the "horrible" clearances)I suspect caused by the 5w-20 oil spec, which is far too light!
Now I use the highest AKI fuel and a 10w-40 and everything is cool.
my first engine "failure" happened for 2 primary reasons, first one being apex seal lock because of carbon or some other kind of deposit build up, I suspected lousy fuel! Second reason was the extremely high engine temperatures reached causing the rotary housing to literally warp, hence a "failure" in the side seals etc...,(maybe that would given me the "horrible" clearances)I suspect caused by the 5w-20 oil spec, which is far too light!
Now I use the highest AKI fuel and a 10w-40 and everything is cool.
04-23-2010, 12:00 AM
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I went to the Mazda factory in Hiroshima in 2007 to see how these engines were being made. The equipment those guys have to measure the rotor housing and all the other assemblies is pretty amazing, most of it made by themselves specifically for the rotary engines, (at least it was amazing for me to see). I'm always impressed with the obsessive precision many Japanese manufacturers operate, compared with some of our own auto makers!
No, because after rebuilding several engines and seeing the same excessive clearances regardless of how the car was driven, how it was maintained, how many miles (as little as 15K miles!), and how far out-of-spec the side seal to corner seal clearance was. The factory spec is .002"-.006", with a max acceptable of .016" and I routinely see clearances as large as .030" and larger when I open up a factory engine for the first time.
Plus, Paul Yaw is pretty friggin' smart when it comes to rotaries and so is his protege, Glen Weaver. Since all three of us agree, I am pretty confident in my opinion on this matter.
Plus, Paul Yaw is pretty friggin' smart when it comes to rotaries and so is his protege, Glen Weaver. Since all three of us agree, I am pretty confident in my opinion on this matter.
04-23-2010, 09:19 AM
#67
I went to the Mazda factory in Hiroshima in 2007 to see how these engines were being made. The equipment those guys have to measure the rotor housing and all the other assemblies is pretty amazing, most of it made by themselves specifically for the rotary engines, (at least it was amazing for me to see). I'm always impressed with the obsessive precision many Japanese manufacturers operate, compared with some of our own auto makers!
I also know that those guys build engines for a living, I don't doubt their skills, but Mazda Corporate really messed up on this one by allowing such clearance, sometimes it's probably out of spec from factory. They said its because materials expand when heated. Hmm, I dont doubt that, but the older engines worked just fine so ... ??? Im still fixing my 8 right now (some stupid issue) when Im done with that, Im gonna buy an Engine hoist to take my FC's engine out and rebuild that sucker. Will order extra long seals and sand it down on my own. hope I dont **** it up. hahaha
I dunno if they updated anything for the S2 (09+) engines tho.
Again, this is probably the reason why some engines can go miles and miles and miles while some other ones just "KAAAABOOOOM" around the corner. just my opinion.
Last edited by nycgps; 04-23-2010 at 09:21 AM.
04-23-2010, 09:59 AM
#68
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yup...that Mazda facility is something else...like a science lab. I went to see all the modifications for the S2, and there were lots of them. The side clearances at that time were never raised as an issue, but I remember the cooling was, plus a whole host of other changes on the S2. It's a completely new engine.
What struck me was the obvious now, looking back, the engine is such a simple concept with very very few parts, but with little to go wrong there's also so little redundancy! I think there were some guys there who had been with the factory almost since production began, and they were still doing final assembling by eye, they looked like surgeons...
What struck me was the obvious now, looking back, the engine is such a simple concept with very very few parts, but with little to go wrong there's also so little redundancy! I think there were some guys there who had been with the factory almost since production began, and they were still doing final assembling by eye, they looked like surgeons...
even I've never seen it in person. I agreed that Mazda's plant is amazing.
I also know that those guys build engines for a living, I don't doubt their skills, but Mazda Corporate really messed up on this one by allowing such clearance, sometimes it's probably out of spec from factory. They said its because materials expand when heated. Hmm, I dont doubt that, but the older engines worked just fine so ... ??? Im still fixing my 8 right now (some stupid issue) when Im done with that, Im gonna buy an Engine hoist to take my FC's engine out and rebuild that sucker. Will order extra long seals and sand it down on my own. hope I dont **** it up. hahaha
I dunno if they updated anything for the S2 (09+) engines tho.
Again, this is probably the reason why some engines can go miles and miles and miles while some other ones just "KAAAABOOOOM" around the corner. just my opinion.
I also know that those guys build engines for a living, I don't doubt their skills, but Mazda Corporate really messed up on this one by allowing such clearance, sometimes it's probably out of spec from factory. They said its because materials expand when heated. Hmm, I dont doubt that, but the older engines worked just fine so ... ??? Im still fixing my 8 right now (some stupid issue) when Im done with that, Im gonna buy an Engine hoist to take my FC's engine out and rebuild that sucker. Will order extra long seals and sand it down on my own. hope I dont **** it up. hahaha
I dunno if they updated anything for the S2 (09+) engines tho.
Again, this is probably the reason why some engines can go miles and miles and miles while some other ones just "KAAAABOOOOM" around the corner. just my opinion.
04-23-2010, 10:31 AM
#69
Use the old side seals to practice getting ALL the tip angles proper and for getting the feel of how much material is removed with each swipe of the tip across the grinding wheel face. There are 3 or 4 angles that should be replicated for the best side seal fitment and doing it properly takes a deft touch. Plus, be sure to read in the FSM how feeler gauges are to be used to properly determine the clearances.
yup...that Mazda facility is something else...like a science lab. I went to see all the modifications for the S2, and there were lots of them. The side clearances at that time were never raised as an issue, but I remember the cooling was, plus a whole host of other changes on the S2. It's a completely new engine.
What struck me was the obvious now, looking back, the engine is such a simple concept with very very few parts, but with little to go wrong there's also so little redundancy! I think there were some guys there who had been with the factory almost since production began, and they were still doing final assembling by eye, they looked like surgeons...
What struck me was the obvious now, looking back, the engine is such a simple concept with very very few parts, but with little to go wrong there's also so little redundancy! I think there were some guys there who had been with the factory almost since production began, and they were still doing final assembling by eye, they looked like surgeons...
04-24-2010, 02:09 AM
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I just don't get how Mazda corp could allow out of spec clearances to go thru their QA procedures, which are obsessive....cold and hot clearances are easy to calculate, so unless the specs are wrong, there must be something else going wrong. If I called up Mazda Hiroshima right now wonder if they would tell me...manufacturing or corporate? Worth a try!
even I've never seen it in person. I agreed that Mazda's plant is amazing.
I also know that those guys build engines for a living, I don't doubt their skills, but Mazda Corporate really messed up on this one by allowing such clearance, sometimes it's probably out of spec from factory. They said its because materials expand when heated. Hmm, I dont doubt that, but the older engines worked just fine so ... ??? Im still fixing my 8 right now (some stupid issue) when Im done with that, Im gonna buy an Engine hoist to take my FC's engine out and rebuild that sucker. Will order extra long seals and sand it down on my own. hope I dont **** it up. hahaha
I dunno if they updated anything for the S2 (09+) engines tho.
Again, this is probably the reason why some engines can go miles and miles and miles while some other ones just "KAAAABOOOOM" around the corner. just my opinion.
I also know that those guys build engines for a living, I don't doubt their skills, but Mazda Corporate really messed up on this one by allowing such clearance, sometimes it's probably out of spec from factory. They said its because materials expand when heated. Hmm, I dont doubt that, but the older engines worked just fine so ... ??? Im still fixing my 8 right now (some stupid issue) when Im done with that, Im gonna buy an Engine hoist to take my FC's engine out and rebuild that sucker. Will order extra long seals and sand it down on my own. hope I dont **** it up. hahaha
I dunno if they updated anything for the S2 (09+) engines tho.
Again, this is probably the reason why some engines can go miles and miles and miles while some other ones just "KAAAABOOOOM" around the corner. just my opinion.
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