rxwarrior

iTrader: (1)

Here's the story. I have an '04 MT with 43,xxx miles. I have had some minor(?) warm starting issues since I got it. A couple weekends ago I replaced my coils, plugs, and wires. Nothing changed as far as the warm starts. I was at the dealer earlier this week and I told the service guy about the problem and that I replaced those parts and nothing changed. He asked me about my shutoff procedure and I told him if it's up to temp I just shut it off. But if not then I rev to 3K, hold for 10-12 seconds, and turn the key off as it's reving down.
Get this, he told me that I should be doing the rev procedure EVERY time I shut it off! I looked at him stupid and said "that's the first time I've heard that, and that's pretty embarrassing don't ya think?" He just told me to try it and see if it helped.
Here's my dilema, the car has always started on the first crank and it's never cranked over 4-5 seconds, it's not that bad but to me it's still longer than a 6 yr old car should take to start. I would like to hear from the guys that have failed a compression test, do you think my car will fail? I know Mazda makes you replace the coils, plugs, and wires before they will test it, so should I pay for the test now while it's all fresh or should I wait till the problem gets worse and have to do another tuneup?
What do ya think??

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

go back and tell them you have severe power loss in the car.
your engine is still under warranty



http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-08-1924g.pdf

rxwarrior

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Jedi.
The car runs strong and the idle has improved with the tuneup. Really my only concern is the longer warm start cranking time. I imagine if I complained about the idle and a loss of power, they would want to take it for a test drive, wouldn't they?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

I'm not telling you to lie but if you were to describe the symptoms in that TSB, I'm sure they'd start running some of those tests.

long warm cranking time is a possible indication of low compression which is why I'm suggesting you take this route (and possibly save the fee for the compression test)

rxwarrior

iTrader: (1)

Ahh, I hear ya now. I'm a little slow somtimes. Thanks again!

robrecht

Hate to say it but it's gonna be low compression, the only question is whether it's low enough yet for Mazda to replace it. Was the service guy you were talking to the service manager? If they don't do it, call Mazda and tell them about how this crazy dealer is spreading crazy talk about how their rotary needs to be shut down and you just need to talk to someone who isn't crazy.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Warm start issues can be caused by low compression, but don't rule out the starter (especially if you have an '04 or '05 and still on the original starter).
I used to have warm start issues too and hated going to the gas pump because I looked like an idiot trying to start the car.
After replacing the starter, I've never had a problem since.
I own my own compression tester and recently performed one and my results were fine, so my warm start issues were not low compression related.
Another member here recently replaced his starter after having warm start issues and it worked out for him too.

Its always nice to know the health of your engine, so you may want to get it tested just to know and get it replaced if needed (or know if you are soon due so you can before the warranty runs out).

robrecht

Good point. Any way to test the starter without replacing it? I would still suspect the difference between good cold starts and bad warm starts is related to compression starting to slide.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Easily... probably not.
A compression test with my original starter was at 166rpm while my upgraded starter was 248rpm.
So getting a compressing test can tell you both.

You're free to suspect what you want, but I can't completely agree since my warm start issues was not the result of low compression.
Not saying its not possible because it can, but it shouldn't be the only sign used to determine low compression IMO.

robrecht

Of course not, that's what compression tests are for, a suspicion is just a suspicion, even if it is based on so many engine failures. BTW, how high was your compression?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Front
102.29 100.54 105.43 242rpm
108.62 106.50 111.83 250rpm (normalized)

Rear
112.24 109.01 106.46 248rpm
117.20 113.85 111.20 250rpm (normalized)

robrecht

Uh-oh, starting to slide. Just kidding. For Jon & the OP, were you both on the original starter?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

With my warm start issues... yes.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Jon: your comressoin is better then mine but I don't seem to have hot start issues.
it's really weird.

rxwarrior

iTrader: (1)

I asked to see the service records at the dealer a while back, the upgraded starter was installed for the last owner. I just checked Oreillys here in town and they sell a compression tester for around $30, and they also loan them out. I think I'll just borrow thiers first to make sure it will work. I'll do a search to find the compression test procedure. Sounds like a good idea to have a tester around, that way you'd have a good idea where your compression was at before you even take it to the dealer.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Regular compression testers don't give you the correct information on a rotary engine.

rxwarrior

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that's what I found out during my search. Ok, anyone have a link to a rotary tester and possibly the testing procedure? I did try to search first, lol.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Because you probably have the upgraded starter.
I no longer have hot start issues since upgrading the starter.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

This is where I bought mine:
http://rotarydiagnostics.com/

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Jon: yeah, mine is a late 05 which came with the upgraded starter. My cranking speeds were around 260 rpm when I tested it.
I'm tip toe'ing with that minnimum psi tolerance on my current engine.
drives like a best though, go figure.

rxwarrior

iTrader: (1)

Holy Hell, those things are pricey! Takin a trip through Nebraska anytime soon? lol

RWatters

iTrader: (5)

Upgrade your starter and swap out your battery. It's more expensive than a compression test through Mazda but IMO it's maintenance anyways. The difference between the old starter and new starter is truly night and day. If you have the original battery that alone could be your problem.

rxwarrior

iTrader: (1)

I'll look into replacing the battery. The upgraded starter was installed for the last owner.