water/methanol injection
02-17-2009, 05:58 PM
#176
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i don't know if it's stupid or what, but i was just thinking about it.
if we run 100% water, and of course we have to find the right nozzle for the intake, but we also add the second line for the "Intecooler" spray, what do you guys think about that?
so in otherwords, there are 2 outputs which are spraying "the engine" and "intercooler", does it sound ok? note that we run water 100%...what do you guys think about that? does anybody ever do it?
steven
if we run 100% water, and of course we have to find the right nozzle for the intake, but we also add the second line for the "Intecooler" spray, what do you guys think about that?
so in otherwords, there are 2 outputs which are spraying "the engine" and "intercooler", does it sound ok? note that we run water 100%...what do you guys think about that? does anybody ever do it?
steven
02-17-2009, 07:03 PM
#177
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It will absolutely scare the crap out of you and I'm not sure how the RX-8 ecu will respond to it. You'll probably get a cel. There are many rotary owners that swear by it though.
Basically I just found a vacuum nipple immediately after the throttleplate. I hooked a small vacuum line up to it and ran the other end to a gallon of water. Started the engine and held it at 2000 rpm. I let it suck up the water until it was gone. The engine bucks and sputters and isn't happy while this is happening and the amount of steam coming out the exhaust is downright alarming. It will not stay running on it's own. After the water is gone just return everything to normal and go for a drive. It'll take a little bit for the steam to quit.
Do this AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!! I am not responsible for any issues or damage you may have if you try this. I do it on my RX-7 and it works great. If it makes you nervous, don't try it.
Basically I just found a vacuum nipple immediately after the throttleplate. I hooked a small vacuum line up to it and ran the other end to a gallon of water. Started the engine and held it at 2000 rpm. I let it suck up the water until it was gone. The engine bucks and sputters and isn't happy while this is happening and the amount of steam coming out the exhaust is downright alarming. It will not stay running on it's own. After the water is gone just return everything to normal and go for a drive. It'll take a little bit for the steam to quit.
Do this AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!! I am not responsible for any issues or damage you may have if you try this. I do it on my RX-7 and it works great. If it makes you nervous, don't try it.
02-17-2009, 07:31 PM
#178
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02-27-2009, 06:38 AM
#181
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question(a lil off topic):
2 years ago i was running an 83 mustang w/ 347 stroke crate motor and turbonetics turbo at 13psi and saw a 63hp increase w/ the methanol at 60/40 mix, what kind of gains would i expect to see on the 8 w/ procharger system? (buddy of mine JUST hooked me up with a $7800 super for $5,700 and its being installed by him tomorrow). its the stage 2 kit with 12psi
2 years ago i was running an 83 mustang w/ 347 stroke crate motor and turbonetics turbo at 13psi and saw a 63hp increase w/ the methanol at 60/40 mix, what kind of gains would i expect to see on the 8 w/ procharger system? (buddy of mine JUST hooked me up with a $7800 super for $5,700 and its being installed by him tomorrow). its the stage 2 kit with 12psi
02-27-2009, 11:11 AM
#183
That's true, OD, but you could use the water/meth to make a more aggressive tune.
It really depends on how aggressive you go- how much timing you advance, how much leaner you run, and how much more boost you add. I don't think I've really seen anyone use the water/meth for a more aggressive tune, yet, so we don't really know what it will do (especially on the ProCharger system that hasn't been used a lot).
It really depends on how aggressive you go- how much timing you advance, how much leaner you run, and how much more boost you add. I don't think I've really seen anyone use the water/meth for a more aggressive tune, yet, so we don't really know what it will do (especially on the ProCharger system that hasn't been used a lot).
03-01-2009, 09:40 AM
#185
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So, just installed my alcoholinjectionsystems.com meth kit. Hooked it up to the pipe right before the Throttlebody, and right after the BOV. It was actually really easy to install.. I got the kit without the bottle. which ended up running me 189.99
I did some measuring and found if you mix 1 gallon of -20 windshield washer fluid with 2 bottles of Heet. You get a nice 50/50 mix.. this is what i'm going to be running soon as summer hits..
I did some measuring and found if you mix 1 gallon of -20 windshield washer fluid with 2 bottles of Heet. You get a nice 50/50 mix.. this is what i'm going to be running soon as summer hits..
03-02-2009, 01:52 PM
#186
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So, just installed my alcoholinjectionsystems.com meth kit. Hooked it up to the pipe right before the Throttlebody, and right after the BOV. It was actually really easy to install.. I got the kit without the bottle. which ended up running me 189.99
I did some measuring and found if you mix 1 gallon of -20 windshield washer fluid with 2 bottles of Heet. You get a nice 50/50 mix.. this is what i'm going to be running soon as summer hits..
I did some measuring and found if you mix 1 gallon of -20 windshield washer fluid with 2 bottles of Heet. You get a nice 50/50 mix.. this is what i'm going to be running soon as summer hits..
steven
03-02-2009, 03:17 PM
#187
BDC Motorsports
For those of ya'll running boosted setups, have any of you guys in particular considered using 100% alcohol as a gross fuel replacement rather than a 'spray it on top of my current boost setup' approach?
03-04-2009, 10:24 PM
#189
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washer fluid -20 is around 2$ a gallon
and I found heet at walmart for 4$ for 4 bottles. I've heard a gallon should last you 2 to 3 weeks. unless you drive it boost all the time.
I think i'd be afraid of tuning for alky. just think, if your not paying attention and you run out of alky, you run the risk of running really lean.
03-20-2009, 11:28 AM
#191
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For that whole "steam cleaning" thing RG was talking about. Could you hook up a water feed to those nipples on the LIM? How effective is it anyway, compared to say the zoom-power cleaning procedure? I guess that would be kinda hard to determine, unless someone tore apart their engine after each cleaning to see, but speculation is welcome.
Anyway, back to aux injection, I am interested in setting something like this up at some point for a safety net with my turbo. Read this thread through, but I'm gonna read up more.
Edit: On second thought, it would be more work to use the LIM nipples, since you'd have to have 1 feed for each rotor.
Anyway, back to aux injection, I am interested in setting something like this up at some point for a safety net with my turbo. Read this thread through, but I'm gonna read up more.
Edit: On second thought, it would be more work to use the LIM nipples, since you'd have to have 1 feed for each rotor.
Last edited by GaMEChld; 03-20-2009 at 11:30 AM.
03-23-2009, 05:58 PM
#192
Been grazing through this thread, and being a 3500 hr. survivor of the Boeing "Steam Jet", I've been wondering why the water/meth charge is being introduced after the MAF / throttle body? The ECU would calculate fuel mapping based on the incoming mass density, adjusting for AFR based on the wideband O2 sensor, if the combined gas density was measured.
Short explanation: The KC-135A Stratotanker, aka "Water Wagon" or "Steam Jet", used water injection on the J-57PW43 turbojet engines to increase thrust during hot/heavyweight takeoffs. The water was sprayed into the compressor inlet and just ahead of the burner cans to increase air mass density. In effect, we were pushing a higher density charge through the engine, and to a lesser extent were worried about the charge cooling effect. Restrictions were we could not use it within a certain temperature range (compressor inlet icing due to evaporative cooling, which was countered by heating the water to about 120F). It took 110 seconds to shove almost 3 tons of demineralized water through those noisy ^&*%s, and you could see the smoke plume for miles.
During that period of time we gained roughly 2,000lbs of thrust per engine, and were also pushing over 12,000 lbs per hr. of fuel through the engines. Boost boost baby!
Guess I'll do some reading on how Focke-Wulf did it with the FW-190 during WW2...
Short explanation: The KC-135A Stratotanker, aka "Water Wagon" or "Steam Jet", used water injection on the J-57PW43 turbojet engines to increase thrust during hot/heavyweight takeoffs. The water was sprayed into the compressor inlet and just ahead of the burner cans to increase air mass density. In effect, we were pushing a higher density charge through the engine, and to a lesser extent were worried about the charge cooling effect. Restrictions were we could not use it within a certain temperature range (compressor inlet icing due to evaporative cooling, which was countered by heating the water to about 120F). It took 110 seconds to shove almost 3 tons of demineralized water through those noisy ^&*%s, and you could see the smoke plume for miles.
During that period of time we gained roughly 2,000lbs of thrust per engine, and were also pushing over 12,000 lbs per hr. of fuel through the engines. Boost boost baby!
Guess I'll do some reading on how Focke-Wulf did it with the FW-190 during WW2...
03-23-2009, 07:47 PM
#193
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it's a good information. thank you
i will post this thread how my car will run with 50/50 and i have EGT temp, water temp, oil temp, and i wanna see how it effects, and i wil compare it to my previous dyno. this will be happening this saturday
steven
i will post this thread how my car will run with 50/50 and i have EGT temp, water temp, oil temp, and i wanna see how it effects, and i wil compare it to my previous dyno. this will be happening this saturday
steven
03-25-2009, 07:00 PM
#194
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Finally got it all installed whee!
So I got my kit installed, I found some nice bottles to use for my meth and washer fluids here are a few pics.
The bottles are in the upper left corner, mounted the pump next to them..
Close up of pump. the Bottle on the left is my 50/50 meth/water.. the smaller is my washer fluid.
Here is where I mounted my nozzle.
The bottles are in the upper left corner, mounted the pump next to them..
Close up of pump. the Bottle on the left is my 50/50 meth/water.. the smaller is my washer fluid.
Here is where I mounted my nozzle.
hidden behind a curtain of wires!
03-26-2009, 09:27 AM
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just finish, take a pic
my car just was just finish, and i had a trouble with EGT gauge because it's reading 880 degree of F the highest, and when i am cruising, it's 0...i am just not happy
, but i use 50/50 with lighter flywheel and stage 2 greddy clutch, it pulls really hard with the same boost.
by the way, with the same boost, by turning off the AI, my AFR is 10.6 - 10.8, but when AI is on, it goes to 10.3 - 10.5, but it also depends on "how early you inject it".
when my start PSI is 7 - 8 PSI, my AFR doesn't change, but when i change my start PSI to 5 - 6 PSI, my AFR change to 10.3 - 10.5. it doesn't change that much.
on teh other hand, i wish my EGT working, so i can see how cold it gets.
by the way, i am satisfied with the water pump from MAZMARt. while i am cruising and boost, it keeps the engine temp 180 degree. untill i stop, then it starts going up. o well, i also have cooling fan mod by mazsport
.
it's just a little write up from my experience since i start the thread, so people can get some idea how it works when they wanna do it in their car.
below is some pictures how they are mounted in my car, it's running 50/50
steven
, but i use 50/50 with lighter flywheel and stage 2 greddy clutch, it pulls really hard with the same boost.by the way, with the same boost, by turning off the AI, my AFR is 10.6 - 10.8, but when AI is on, it goes to 10.3 - 10.5, but it also depends on "how early you inject it".
when my start PSI is 7 - 8 PSI, my AFR doesn't change, but when i change my start PSI to 5 - 6 PSI, my AFR change to 10.3 - 10.5. it doesn't change that much.
on teh other hand, i wish my EGT working, so i can see how cold it gets.
by the way, i am satisfied with the water pump from MAZMARt. while i am cruising and boost, it keeps the engine temp 180 degree. untill i stop, then it starts going up. o well, i also have cooling fan mod by mazsport
.it's just a little write up from my experience since i start the thread, so people can get some idea how it works when they wanna do it in their car.
below is some pictures how they are mounted in my car, it's running 50/50
steven
03-26-2009, 11:26 AM
#199
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it's running beautiful, it pulls harder than before.
Czar, are you going to inject W/M in your car? i think you should for safety purpose.
steven