water/methanol injection
12-31-2008, 03:34 AM
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water/methanol injection
i tried to look for the thread, but i couldn't find it, so i decided to make a new thread my own since i am really interested with the kits. i like to learn more about the methanol/water injections, i hope that people who have the eperience can share and teach me about meth/water inject. kits.
i have turbo, and my questions are:
1) is it a good thing to add meth/water injections when you have turbo? why ?
2) if i get the meth/water, should i tune with it, or i should have it as safety factor?
i just wanna make sure it helps when i am in boost (for cooling and cleaning the carbons)
3) should i have it 50/50 as people said? (50 meth and 50 water)?
4) what are the good brand? AEM, SNOWPERFORMANCE, AI, OR other things?
please, you guys who have experinces toward this kits, give me a feed back or give some lessons to me. thank you
steven
i decided to put a topic about Water/Meth injections from RX7 club, i hope other people can use this thread if they decide to do it
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=806104
i have turbo, and my questions are:
1) is it a good thing to add meth/water injections when you have turbo? why ?
2) if i get the meth/water, should i tune with it, or i should have it as safety factor?
i just wanna make sure it helps when i am in boost (for cooling and cleaning the carbons)
3) should i have it 50/50 as people said? (50 meth and 50 water)?
4) what are the good brand? AEM, SNOWPERFORMANCE, AI, OR other things?
please, you guys who have experinces toward this kits, give me a feed back or give some lessons to me. thank you
steven
i decided to put a topic about Water/Meth injections from RX7 club, i hope other people can use this thread if they decide to do it
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=806104
Last edited by halimsteven; 02-03-2009 at 09:06 PM.
12-31-2008, 03:50 AM
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IMO: dont tune for water/meth... if somehing happens to it you can toast your motor. since you arent tuning for it and only using it for other purposes, get rid of the meth all together, or at least not close to a 50/50 ratio. Charles R. Hill seems to have a pretty decent knowledge of these things as well as a few good connections for the hardware. There are a few also who have a lot of technical and experienced based knowledge. I think they'll say the same about the use of water/meth, but they can certainly add more info
It depends what you are doing and what you want to achieve.
12-31-2008, 09:16 AM
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this may be another choice for you, this is the kit I plan on getting in the next week or so...
http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmai...ricooltrunkMAF
http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmai...ricooltrunkMAF
12-31-2008, 09:22 AM
#5
very true --you can do that--but rather have BOTH. Have you ever seen how intake temps go up without an intercooler at all?!!!! So if something happened to the kit --watch out.
The meth actually cools better than the water, and the water actually helps to increase the octane. Its cheap to run both(windshield washer fluid and 3 bottles of HEET for a gallon) no reason not to run the meth and no reason to just run the meth--unless you tune for it --it does nothing but cool. heck we have had people to experiment and run a small amount of NITRO blend through the system.
I would NOT boost this engine without one. Many reasons. I would also NOT tune for the w/m. Use it only for safety purposes. It will get you more power back because it will keep the CHARGE (not intake temps)temps down and octane up.
We s/c guys run 2 nozzles. one pre blower(will cool blower and actually up boost a little) and one post blower. cant do that with turbo --it would destory the blades. So total flow will need to be injected with one nozzle---which is no problem at all.
Get the kit---very strong recommendation.
olddragger
The meth actually cools better than the water, and the water actually helps to increase the octane. Its cheap to run both(windshield washer fluid and 3 bottles of HEET for a gallon) no reason not to run the meth and no reason to just run the meth--unless you tune for it --it does nothing but cool. heck we have had people to experiment and run a small amount of NITRO blend through the system.
I would NOT boost this engine without one. Many reasons. I would also NOT tune for the w/m. Use it only for safety purposes. It will get you more power back because it will keep the CHARGE (not intake temps)temps down and octane up.
We s/c guys run 2 nozzles. one pre blower(will cool blower and actually up boost a little) and one post blower. cant do that with turbo --it would destory the blades. So total flow will need to be injected with one nozzle---which is no problem at all.
Get the kit---very strong recommendation.
olddragger
12-31-2008, 09:58 AM
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very true --you can do that--but rather have BOTH. Have you ever seen how intake temps go up without an intercooler at all?!!!! So if something happened to the kit --watch out.
The meth actually cools better than the water, and the water actually helps to increase the octane. Its cheap to run both(windshield washer fluid and 3 bottles of HEET for a gallon) no reason not to run the meth and no reason to just run the meth--unless you tune for it --it does nothing but cool. heck we have had people to experiment and run a small amount of NITRO blend through the system.
I would NOT boost this engine without one. Many reasons. I would also NOT tune for the w/m. Use it only for safety purposes. It will get you more power back because it will keep the CHARGE (not intake temps)temps down and octane up.
We s/c guys run 2 nozzles. one pre blower(will cool blower and actually up boost a little) and one post blower. cant do that with turbo --it would destory the blades. So total flow will need to be injected with one nozzle---which is no problem at all.
Get the kit---very strong recommendation.
olddragger
The meth actually cools better than the water, and the water actually helps to increase the octane. Its cheap to run both(windshield washer fluid and 3 bottles of HEET for a gallon) no reason not to run the meth and no reason to just run the meth--unless you tune for it --it does nothing but cool. heck we have had people to experiment and run a small amount of NITRO blend through the system.
I would NOT boost this engine without one. Many reasons. I would also NOT tune for the w/m. Use it only for safety purposes. It will get you more power back because it will keep the CHARGE (not intake temps)temps down and octane up.
We s/c guys run 2 nozzles. one pre blower(will cool blower and actually up boost a little) and one post blower. cant do that with turbo --it would destory the blades. So total flow will need to be injected with one nozzle---which is no problem at all.
Get the kit---very strong recommendation.
olddragger
will it get better power little bit? or just give the cooling system....
thank you guys
steven
12-31-2008, 10:24 AM
#7
Water increases the octane??...I think thats backwards isn't it?? The meth increases the octane and the water cools the charge only
The water has a high latent heat...so it pulls a lot of heat out...but it evaporates a lot higher temperature....Meth is a vapor at anything near intake temps...and you don't have to worry about it staying liquid like you can with too much water
The water has a high latent heat...so it pulls a lot of heat out...but it evaporates a lot higher temperature....Meth is a vapor at anything near intake temps...and you don't have to worry about it staying liquid like you can with too much water
12-31-2008, 02:39 PM
#9
dann --i thought that too---but think about it--doesnt water cause the fuel to ignite more slowly? yep it does. Higher octane fuel ignites more slowly than lower octane fuel right? So in affect water does help to increase the octane per say----they both(water and meth) help increase octane and cool.
i think I just like those little red lines in the engine bay and the little activation led on the dash the best!.
OD
i think I just like those little red lines in the engine bay and the little activation led on the dash the best!.
OD
12-31-2008, 05:28 PM
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Was about to post something about water/meth inj but got sidetracked by paulmasoner's sig links and made big miastake of clicking the 3rd one.
..............Quite disturbed now.....going to ball up in a corner somewhere.....goodbye....
..............Quite disturbed now.....going to ball up in a corner somewhere.....goodbye....
12-31-2008, 05:55 PM
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very true --you can do that--but rather have BOTH. Have you ever seen how intake temps go up without an intercooler at all?!!!! So if something happened to the kit --watch out.
The meth actually cools better than the water, and the water actually helps to increase the octane. Its cheap to run both(windshield washer fluid and 3 bottles of HEET for a gallon) no reason not to run the meth and no reason to just run the meth--unless you tune for it --it does nothing but cool. heck we have had people to experiment and run a small amount of NITRO blend through the system.
I would NOT boost this engine without one. Many reasons. I would also NOT tune for the w/m. Use it only for safety purposes. It will get you more power back because it will keep the CHARGE (not intake temps)temps down and octane up.
We s/c guys run 2 nozzles. one pre blower(will cool blower and actually up boost a little) and one post blower. cant do that with turbo --it would destory the blades. So total flow will need to be injected with one nozzle---which is no problem at all.
Get the kit---very strong recommendation.
olddragger
The meth actually cools better than the water, and the water actually helps to increase the octane. Its cheap to run both(windshield washer fluid and 3 bottles of HEET for a gallon) no reason not to run the meth and no reason to just run the meth--unless you tune for it --it does nothing but cool. heck we have had people to experiment and run a small amount of NITRO blend through the system.
I would NOT boost this engine without one. Many reasons. I would also NOT tune for the w/m. Use it only for safety purposes. It will get you more power back because it will keep the CHARGE (not intake temps)temps down and octane up.
We s/c guys run 2 nozzles. one pre blower(will cool blower and actually up boost a little) and one post blower. cant do that with turbo --it would destory the blades. So total flow will need to be injected with one nozzle---which is no problem at all.
Get the kit---very strong recommendation.
olddragger
Dyno the car after you install the w/m kit and figure out which nozzle works best for you. Too much w/m will actually reduce your hp by a lot. For example, I started with @ 350 m/l total nozzle output and ended taking it down to 160 m/l total. That gave me the best w/m whp ratio, something I did not noticed until I put the car on a dyno. I’m currently running 50/50 VP Racing M-5 methanol but in the summer I run 20/80. It gets so cold that condensation water from outside of the intake sips between the back of the hood and rubber grommet and some of it lands on the windshield. I also, had to upgrade my ignition system (MSDs or you can get the BHR ignition) due to random misfire at high rpm while on meth. I recommend a w/m system even if NA in order to keep your engine free of carbon deposits.
12-31-2008, 06:12 PM
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Ditto on that.
Dyno the car after you install the w/m kit and figure out which nozzle works best for you. Too much w/m will actually reduce your hp by a lot. For example, I started with @ 350 m/l total nozzle output and ended taking it down to 160 m/l total. That gave me the best w/m whp ratio, something I did not noticed until I put the car on a dyno. I’m currently running 50/50 VP Racing M-5 methanol but in the summer I run 20/80. It gets so cold that condensation water from outside of the intake sips between the back of the hood and rubber grommet and some of it lands on the windshield. I also, had to upgrade my ignition system (MSDs or you can get the BHR ignition) due to random misfire at high rpm while on meth. I recommend a w/m system even if NA in order to keep your engine free of carbon deposits.
Dyno the car after you install the w/m kit and figure out which nozzle works best for you. Too much w/m will actually reduce your hp by a lot. For example, I started with @ 350 m/l total nozzle output and ended taking it down to 160 m/l total. That gave me the best w/m whp ratio, something I did not noticed until I put the car on a dyno. I’m currently running 50/50 VP Racing M-5 methanol but in the summer I run 20/80. It gets so cold that condensation water from outside of the intake sips between the back of the hood and rubber grommet and some of it lands on the windshield. I also, had to upgrade my ignition system (MSDs or you can get the BHR ignition) due to random misfire at high rpm while on meth. I recommend a w/m system even if NA in order to keep your engine free of carbon deposits.
thank you guys, that's what i wanna hear about how it works toward our engine.
why should i need BHR throtel body space? should i use it or i just can drill it?
steven
12-31-2008, 09:37 PM
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yeah, the video has that effect on persons with a lesser sense of the "Darwinism/got what you deserve/sick" sense of humor
12-31-2008, 09:39 PM
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http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
I have broken a Snow nozzle before, possibly due to 12 lbs of boost pressure.
Last edited by Rote8; 12-31-2008 at 09:43 PM.
12-31-2008, 10:09 PM
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Ummmm...has nothing to do w/lesser sense of anything just found that video pretty ******* sick & "GAY" IMO and thats it.
Anyway to more constructive things...
I know a couple guys around here running straight denatured alcohol and top lube, using those 50/50 pumps. They say the top lube allows them to run straight alky thru the pumps.
Any thought on this? I'm planning on doing this and tuning a bit for the alky
Also I wanna put a IAT sensor @ the injection point, do you all think the meth will ruin the sensor?
01-01-2009, 10:17 AM
#21
we s/c guys monitor intake temps at the uim and lim junction---
i would not --repeat i would not used a w/m system to GAIN power on a rotary engine---use it only to keep from loosing power.
This engine can flow a lot through it --i cycled an entire gallon of w/m through it in about 9 miles--to clean it out and just to see. It was down on power some but no misfires.
Yes i also run a total of 160 flow 100 before sc and 60 post sc, with a 150lb pump--trunk mount--maf driven control. My curve begins at approx 2.75 volts and max's at 4. Works well. I have the snow system---got it when it was approx $350!
OD
i would not --repeat i would not used a w/m system to GAIN power on a rotary engine---use it only to keep from loosing power.
This engine can flow a lot through it --i cycled an entire gallon of w/m through it in about 9 miles--to clean it out and just to see. It was down on power some but no misfires.
Yes i also run a total of 160 flow 100 before sc and 60 post sc, with a 150lb pump--trunk mount--maf driven control. My curve begins at approx 2.75 volts and max's at 4. Works well. I have the snow system---got it when it was approx $350!
OD
01-01-2009, 12:58 PM
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When you went through a gallon in 9 miles what nozzle/ml per min were you running?
thinking about upgrading to a 5 gallon trunk reservoir in the near future.
So don't even lean it out just a little when running meth? c'mon jus a little
thinking about upgrading to a 5 gallon trunk reservoir in the near future.
So don't even lean it out just a little when running meth? c'mon jus a little
01-01-2009, 11:54 PM
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what do you mean by that? i am sorry, i am just trying to learn.....
cool, it's a knowledge to have
steven
we s/c guys monitor intake temps at the uim and lim junction---
i would not --repeat i would not used a w/m system to GAIN power on a rotary engine---use it only to keep from loosing power.
This engine can flow a lot through it --i cycled an entire gallon of w/m through it in about 9 miles--to clean it out and just to see. It was down on power some but no misfires.
Yes i also run a total of 160 flow 100 before sc and 60 post sc, with a 150lb pump--trunk mount--maf driven control. My curve begins at approx 2.75 volts and max's at 4. Works well. I have the snow system---got it when it was approx $350!
OD
i would not --repeat i would not used a w/m system to GAIN power on a rotary engine---use it only to keep from loosing power.
This engine can flow a lot through it --i cycled an entire gallon of w/m through it in about 9 miles--to clean it out and just to see. It was down on power some but no misfires.
Yes i also run a total of 160 flow 100 before sc and 60 post sc, with a 150lb pump--trunk mount--maf driven control. My curve begins at approx 2.75 volts and max's at 4. Works well. I have the snow system---got it when it was approx $350!
OD
steven