BDC

If it's the huge thread about the 'What Intercooler?' thing, then it's me.

I think water would be alright for what you're wanting to do but I'm not sure how much. Maybe one of those things that comes on at 8psi and stays on, like a simple stage 1 thing or something. Unsure of nozzle size.

B

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

one thing to consider also is that the w/m injection can help when you get a tank of "bad" gas---it happens.
You really only need the spray when in boost so a gallon can last a while IF you drive conservatively.
Heck I may use a gallon every 2-3 weeks in the winter. Methanol is cheap--you have spent too much money on your car by now to worry about a few bucks. Run a 50/50 blend--distilled water the right kind of wwf +HEET etc whatever. But do the deed.
my w/m on my settings at full spray enrichen me about 0.1-0.2. I am running 2 nozzles --a 100 m before the sc and and a 60 post blower.
OD
OD

halimsteven

now i know what to run, i will run the washer fluid or some combination between water and methanol, but for sure that more water then methanol.

OD, what is the size of your nozzle? what PSI do you run? what is the Hp?
because now, i am running 9 psi, 320 whp, and if i get the AEM, i will have 3 sizes, which are small (150cc), medium (315cc), which one do you think i should use?
also at what PSI do you start?
steven

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

With the AEM (at somewhat higher power levels), I've always run the medium nozzle with the on point at ~6 PSI and the MAX at 14 PSI.

halimsteven

thank you for the HELP mazdamaniac, i appreciate it, finally at least everybody will know about the approximate size for certain HP in the future, so no losing power.
i read that when you inject more than it's supposed to be which is according to your HP rating, you will lose power. at least, i know for my set up.
Every body welcomes to join in my thread if they have questions...
steven

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

You can loose power if you are injecting too much water (since water isn't combustible and is not a fuel). Too much alky/meth and you're hard pressed to loose power unless it runs pig rich.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I find the line between proper quantities of injected liquid and a raging misfire is tenuous.
If your intake charge is not raging hot, you can't inject a whole lot of water before you start to see serious breakup above 6200 RPM.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

welll--i have a differant experience---i have ran a gallon of water thru mine in 8 miles distance---no idle problems, no high rpm breakup and very little power lost felt by the seat of your pants. Now mine is maf driven--not map---so at idle no injecting was occuring.
I did see a little steam out the exhaust while driving!!
The only way to tell if you are doing it right is to dyno with it. a 10-20 hp difference is hard to tell otherwise.
General guidlines on nozzles is approx 175 cc if hp(flywheel) is at approx 350 and pump pressure for ours is at 150psi. Most of us are running the snow set up I think?
But per dyno we found that we are better of with a 100 size pre blower and a 60 size post blower---anything bigger and we loose power. We are at around 290-300 rwhp.
If you are thinking about boosting over 11 lbs you also have other things to consider!
OD

halimsteven

yeah, i figured it out, and i have everything already, injectors, fuelpump, radiators, coils, etc....upgraded...now i am doing the clutch with the lighter flywheels...
i will dyno it after i installing it, and i will try to find out which nozzle that i need to get HP i need.
thank you for all the help
steven

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

good luck dude---enjoy the work and let us know how it turns out.
Have you seen the phenolic gasket for our car?
ODh

halimsteven

phenolic? i don't know the name..but what gasket is that?
my mechanic is doing my car......so he did everything one shot..
i will post the HP after i dyno it, and i will see....
i will take all cautions that people ask me to bcause you just can't believe with teh internet, you have to research your self in order to understand it deeper and to prove it your self. everybody will have difference experience..
i will post up when i am finish with everything, since it's winter in NJ, my car is hybernating. i just need to order parts in the winter and install them in summer
steven

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

See, I have some higher rpm breakup with too much water. Shut the system off and it went away. So I am going to slowly dial the max spray volume out until I am at the edge of breakup.

I still like the RX7Club thread about HDAI and I am looking into a kit for that, so I can spray based on RPM and other parameters to help with any higher rpm breakup.

halimsteven

what do you mean by high RPM break up? what kit do you use? sorry to ask, but i need to know before i decide which kit i need
steven

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

I have the Snow Stage 2 kit. I have it set by MAP and to start spraying at 4psi and full spray around 7psi, which is too low. I did notice the Snow MAP sensor isn't the best- I originally set it to 4psi turn on but it wouldn't start until nearly 9psi! So I had to back it down to 1psi turn on for it to start at 4psi. This makes adjusting the max pump volume difficult since I'm not positive what pressure it is really thinking.

The high rpm breakup is noticeable- you will hear many little "pops" and the car will sort of lug a little. AFRs will go rich, too. The first time I wasn't sure if I blew my motor but the AFRs were pig rich (over 9.5:1) and my car is actually running a little lean right now so I knew what happened.

I have a manual on/off switch I installed on my injection kit so I can turn the system off for any reason. I turned it off and did the pull again (on ramp in 3rd gear) and no breakup.

I am currently running a 35-38% Denatured alcohol/distilled water homebrew mix. I am heavily considering ordering the Snow Boost Juice for my next fill up.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Exactly. It sounds like the motor wants to "clear its throat".
Be careful - your EGTs go THROUGH THE ROOF in this condition and you can crack your manifold or worse.

BDC

Jeff, the reverse happens if it's too rich which sounds like what Dave is talking about.

B

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

He said he is too lean.
He sees rich AFRs during injection along with the popping/sizzling sound, which is a water misfire.

BDC

He didn't say by how much.

9.5:1 will probably not only blow spark out but it'll also send EGT's straight down (especially if part of what's causing that 9.5:1 is ethyl or methyl alcohol).

Running "a little lean" isn't going to send an EGT "through the roof" unless it's radically lean.

B

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No, I think you are missing my point.

Regardless of AFR, if you get misfires from too much W/M, the EGTs take off.

marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

I have a Snow Performance Stage 2 since early last summer. I also used to run Boost Juice. However I do now run VP Racing M-5. 50/50 on cold days and 80/20 on hot days. I can honestly say that I did notice the difference in power/cooling between the boost juice and the M-5.

NEW! M5TM
M5 is simply the best performing methanol on the market. With its upgraded combustion additives, M5 will make more power than M3, i.e., 5-7% more power than standard methanol, while offering the same or better protection against detonation. Like M3, M5's improved vaporization offers a wider acceptable range of air/fuel ratios and tuning. It also yields faster combustion speeds which lead to closer EGT's from cylinder to cylinder, providing more consistent performance from run to run. M5 is not pure methanol and won't pass a water test.

BDC

Where'd you get that? I've been screwing with this AI stuff for 2 1/2 years and I've not once seen that.

B

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

By watching it happen on several RX-8s, over and over again.

Tuned to 11.8 or so on pump gas, 12.2 or so on racing fuel.
No misfires and stable AFRs and EGTs with no W/M.
Turn it on, and the exhaust sizzles and pops, power falls off at 6200 RPM and the EGTs take off in leaps and bounds. AFR goes slightly rich.
Go down to a smaller nozzle (and get the onset/max right) and power goes up, AFRs stay about the same and EGTs drop by a few hundred.

rotarygod

Water does require a stronger spark as it will have a tendency to blow it out. Water is a fire supressant. Typically running water injection requires that people upgrade their ignition systems. Most people that use water injection don't take the time to retune the engine to take advantage of the knock supressing ability of it. They just inject it into the engine and find that spark starts getting blown out. Methanol however isn't going to suffer the same thing to the same extent. It's plenty flammable and while there is a certain point where you will blow spark out, the same is true with gasoline too. You need an ignition upgrade with water long before you do with methanol.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

very true RG.
Hey Juan doesnt M5--have seal eating buggers in it? Snow advises agaisnt using M5 due to the non compatable pump seals?
M1- is ok per snow.
OD

halimsteven

so , i am good then, because i have the MAzsport upgrade and my dwell is 3.5. i hope it last..LOL...but good thing that i k now about this knowledge.
do you guys think that AEM is a good product? because they say that it's a progressive pump, and it's simple set up...
steven