slavearm's mazsport turbo kit dyno
10-29-2006, 12:33 PM
#76
Originally Posted by stickmantijuana
w/ 93oct pump gas and all issues ironed out, how much whp do you think type-2 will put down?
i guess i'm curious to know whether it'll reach 400rwhp.
btw, where is that screw that you were talking about for bringing the clutch engagement points closer? thanks again
i guess i'm curious to know whether it'll reach 400rwhp.
btw, where is that screw that you were talking about for bringing the clutch engagement points closer? thanks again
pm,
beers
10-29-2006, 01:12 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by slavearm
There really aren't any issues. The kits lay down alot of power right out of the box. The issue is CA gas sucks. As such, we can't run as much timing...
one thing i'd like to mention from a tuning standpoint on this one is the afr's are going to be more important than the timing when dealing with lower octane fuel, at least in the higher boost ranges. i think we're fine at 6-8 psi, but by the time the boost gets into the double-digit numbers, it's a different story with a high compression motor. reason being, is there IS a point when your air/fuel charge will auto-ignite (pre-ignition) even before the spark plug is fired. this auto-ignition point is directly porportional to your compression ratio for any given air/fuel ratio. it's also inversely proportional to your air/fuel ratio for any given compression ratio. take just a sec with that one...
the higher your compression, the richer it needs to run with lower octane fuels. this part is independant of the timing.
that part takes care of the pre-ignition. now backing off on the timing is what will prevent detonation.
pre-ignition and detonation are 2 different things, but equally damaging to an engine, except that with pre-ignition, the combustion (or explosion, if you will) happens sooner in the cycle, so there's a better chance of cracking an iron at the upper dowel pin. the renesis motors have quite a bit of beef around the dowel pin compared to say an s4 motor from an fc, so there's less chance of cracking an iron, but doesn't totally eliminate the risk.
if i had to choose one, i'd probably choose detonation. there's less chance of side housing damage with it, but obviously, we'd all like to avoid both.
so for cali gas, richen it up a half a point or so in the afr's and i can't say exactly what to do with the timing because scott was doing the tuning, but i'd imagine drop at least a few degrees and go from there. i do know that the timing was extremely conservative, so these kits are making awesome power without having to tune aggressively. this is essential for reliability, especially when you're doing 6th gear top speed runs, when your egt's are going to be the highest, your motor will be the hottest, etc etc...
Last edited by guitarjunkie28; 10-29-2006 at 02:51 PM.
10-29-2006, 01:23 PM
#78
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little off topic... but could you go super conservative on timing & lean it out to 15-17afr to save on gas? just curious... as long as it's not going to be too bad for the motor.
of course, that'll be just for normal city driving.
and thanks for your pm's swoope! i learn more here than in school most of the times
of course, that'll be just for normal city driving.
and thanks for your pm's swoope! i learn more here than in school most of the times
10-29-2006, 01:55 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by Red Devil
320whp on 6-8psi is insane. And some through the years have claimed this engine had no potential. 
I tried to pull up the dyno graphs posted earlier, but it's not working very well on my pc. When is it that you're seeing full boost?
I tried to pull up the dyno graphs posted earlier, but it's not working very well on my pc. When is it that you're seeing full boost?
Honestly, I am not quite sure... the boost is almost instantaneous at anything above 3K. Ball Bearing properly sized turbos kick asparin!
10-29-2006, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by stickmantijuana
little off topic... but could you go super conservative on timing & lean it out to 15-17afr to save on gas? just curious... as long as it's not going to be too bad for the motor.
of course, that'll be just for normal city driving.
of course, that'll be just for normal city driving.
no, for the pre-ignition point i mentioned earlier. it wouldn't make any power with those afr's, even if you did manage to not blow it up, anyway.
but if you're talking about the vacuum areas, sure... lean that **** out till it stumbles, then add a touch back in. you're never going to blow an apex seal under 10+ " of hg. my rich afr comment was for the boost areas.
10-29-2006, 03:25 PM
#81
does anyone here have dejavu? this is just like the rx7. haha. i love it. a month ago everyone was sayin can we just get 300 whp? please? please? now in one day were like oh 300... psh (bov sound) ya we can do that.... 350.... uhuu we can get that with a little more money... anyone fore 400? maybe we can do that with tuning and octane... we uped the expectations by 100 whp in about 2 days.. hahahaha
10-29-2006, 03:26 PM
#82
Originally Posted by slavearm
Honestly, I am not quite sure... the boost is almost instantaneous at anything above 3K. Ball Bearing properly sized turbos kick asparin!
the curves on the 2 graphs posted look very linear. Like there is not going to be much of a noticable.....wow we just hit boost......effect in the middle of a gear.
10-29-2006, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by silverwolf
does anyone here have dejavu? this is just like the rx7. haha. i love it. a month ago everyone was sayin can we just get 300 whp? please? please? now in one day were like oh 300... psh (bov sound) ya we can do that.... 350.... uhuu we can get that with a little more money... anyone fore 400? maybe we can do that with tuning and octane... we uped the expectations by 100 whp in about 2 days.. hahahaha
hey, i've been saying 400+ since day 1. it's just a matter of octane.
10-29-2006, 04:47 PM
#84
My take on it
It seems with just under 300hp you can have a car that is still a reliable daily driver that is as quick as most things out there .
Anything above that and you have to start modding every system on the car that is power sensitive turning your car into something that requires constant attention .
am I right on this ?
It seems with just under 300hp you can have a car that is still a reliable daily driver that is as quick as most things out there .
Anything above that and you have to start modding every system on the car that is power sensitive turning your car into something that requires constant attention .
am I right on this ?
10-29-2006, 05:24 PM
#85
more or less, but dont forget then once you start upgrading your ignition components you get a more reliable system there, and you can also have a very reliable tune... its all in the tune. a reliable tuen that doesnt run it tuen rich or lean can mean constant reliable hp and that can make the 8 a beast. its when you have 15 psi and no good tune that you can come up with many problems. it take a lot of money but can be done. just watch for heat.... not to boast my thread but find my thread on cheap DIY upgrades for the 8 everything from heat to tranny stuff. its in the tech garage section. not to hard to find. or just click my name hit view public profile and tehn view alll post and there should be a recent on under the thread cheap reliability mods for the 8. just started it today i think but already gettin attention. hoping it will help all the 8 owner out there. lower temps also mean a more reliable rotoy engine as a whole.
10-29-2006, 06:53 PM
#86
Originally Posted by guitarjunkie28
one thing i'd like to mention from a tuning standpoint on this one is the afr's are going to be more important than the timing when dealing with lower octane fuel, at least in the higher boost ranges. i think we're fine at 6-8 psi, but by the time the boost gets into the double-digit numbers, it's a different story with a high compression motor. reason being, is there IS a point when your air/fuel charge will auto-ignite (pre-ignition) even before the spark plug is fired. this auto-ignition point is directly porportional to your compression ratio for any given air/fuel ratio. it's also inversely proportional to your air/fuel ratio for any given compression ratio. take just a sec with that one...
the higher your compression, the richer it needs to run with lower octane fuels. this part is independant of the timing.
that part takes care of the pre-ignition. now backing off on the timing is what will prevent detonation.
pre-ignition and detonation are 2 different things, but equally damaging to an engine, except that with pre-ignition, the combustion (or explosion, if you will) happens sooner in the cycle, so there's a better chance of cracking an iron at the upper dowel pin. the renesis motors have quite a bit of beef around the dowel pin compared to say an s4 motor from an fc, so there's less chance of cracking an iron, but doesn't totally eliminate the risk.
if i had to choose one, i'd probably choose detonation. there's less chance of side housing damage with it, but obviously, we'd all like to avoid both.
so for cali gas, richen it up a half a point or so in the afr's and i can't say exactly what to do with the timing because scott was doing the tuning, but i'd imagine drop at least a few degrees and go from there. i do know that the timing was extremely conservative, so these kits are making awesome power without having to tune aggressively. this is essential for reliability, especially when you're doing 6th gear top speed runs, when your egt's are going to be the highest, your motor will be the hottest, etc etc...
the higher your compression, the richer it needs to run with lower octane fuels. this part is independant of the timing.
that part takes care of the pre-ignition. now backing off on the timing is what will prevent detonation.
pre-ignition and detonation are 2 different things, but equally damaging to an engine, except that with pre-ignition, the combustion (or explosion, if you will) happens sooner in the cycle, so there's a better chance of cracking an iron at the upper dowel pin. the renesis motors have quite a bit of beef around the dowel pin compared to say an s4 motor from an fc, so there's less chance of cracking an iron, but doesn't totally eliminate the risk.
if i had to choose one, i'd probably choose detonation. there's less chance of side housing damage with it, but obviously, we'd all like to avoid both.
so for cali gas, richen it up a half a point or so in the afr's and i can't say exactly what to do with the timing because scott was doing the tuning, but i'd imagine drop at least a few degrees and go from there. i do know that the timing was extremely conservative, so these kits are making awesome power without having to tune aggressively. this is essential for reliability, especially when you're doing 6th gear top speed runs, when your egt's are going to be the highest, your motor will be the hottest, etc etc...
beers
10-29-2006, 07:05 PM
#87
I might travel to the West Coast with my 8 one day (2500 miles trip!) and they only have 91 octane there ..... If I get this I really would like some safe tune with anything as close as 300 whp as possible and be able to run it with 91 octane gas.
We have 93 Octane in NYC and NJ but just to be safe than sorry. IS it possible to have about 300whp and be able to stand 91 Octane gas ?
We have 93 Octane in NYC and NJ but just to be safe than sorry. IS it possible to have about 300whp and be able to stand 91 Octane gas ?
10-29-2006, 07:51 PM
#88
Registered
I'm not going to get into any more detail than to just say the Renesis engine can top 400 hp on pump gas when done properly. It's already been done.
Last edited by rotarygod; 10-30-2006 at 12:33 AM.
10-29-2006, 09:25 PM
#93
OH OK. i spent like 5 min trying to figure out what that post meant. it refers to the thread i have on cheap reliability mods for the rx8
link!
link?
oh, here it is.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/rx8-reliability-mods-cheap-diy-102143/
but no, i have nothig on that subject because there are no cheap mods. (cheap meaning a weekend pocket change project, like 10 20 bucks) HEY! if you get any ignition solutions for that price you send it here k. i dont think thatll happen soon though.
peace man.
Blake
link!
link?
oh, here it is.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/rx8-reliability-mods-cheap-diy-102143/
but no, i have nothig on that subject because there are no cheap mods. (cheap meaning a weekend pocket change project, like 10 20 bucks) HEY! if you get any ignition solutions for that price you send it here k. i dont think thatll happen soon though.
peace man.
Blake
10-29-2006, 09:41 PM
#94
Registered
Ok, maybe there are no cheap mods. I was curious about what you planned to do to keep the spark from blowing out.
Anything I can get done before attempting FI is useful to me.
Anything I can get done before attempting FI is useful to me.
10-29-2006, 10:23 PM
#95
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Originally Posted by stickmantijuana
u'll probably never loose to any hondas or acuras after the turbo; i never did. try popping a huge flame instead of turning on ur blinkers though. scott'll tell u how if u ask.
haha, maybe a special tune built into the intx that dumps fuel when u lift at 9000rpm on 3rd gear.. hahaha!!! flame flower at the back=d
________
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT
Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 10:10 AM.
10-30-2006, 09:54 AM
#97
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i finally got a ride in the car last night. feels great @ 8psi!!
can't wait to do some meth and milk out ~400hp from it :D
can't wait to do some meth and milk out ~400hp from it :D
Last edited by guitarjunkie28; 10-30-2006 at 01:26 PM.
10-30-2006, 01:26 PM
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HKS Twinpower will be here next Tuesday. If not for SEMA, I would have had it tomorrow. You got a meth lab... er kit laying around I can borrow Junkie? I think I found a source for 103 Octane in convienient 5g mini drums with Spouts!!!
