Talic

i went ahead and bought a different sandwich plate
one that is 2 chambers that can run out/in
this will make life easy insted of tapping my pan

nuke0907

iTrader: (2)

the race roots pan does not come with a return fitting?

Talic

it comes with a thicker area for tapping
and forsome reason i cant find it on their site
but i guess you could put the return into one of the bottom bungs
that is used to tighten the pan then block off the oil from escaping hard to explain so see the attached
but then that elbow will be below the frame kinda like esmerils old waste gate
anywho ill figure it out when the sandwich comes

Talic

drove the car and its too loud
i hope the turbo and 3rd glasspck (oem one) will help
bad news is on way home while watching the a/rs the cobb froze
when i unplugged it and plugged it back in it was dead....
any help or must i send it back for service?

Talic

yay sandwitch plate came in
its installed and all lines run (stainless steel braided 180bar hydraulic line)
the sucky part the turbo oil seal doesnt retain the oil.
oil bleed out from the exhaust turbine (not sure if it came out the charge turbine untill i remove it)
but anywho ill rip it apart if its unrepairable ill have to suck it up and put the turbonics one in and pray my ars are okay.
as i dont want to spend another 1K+ on a different turbo.

my cobb got the black screen of death last week and its already at cobb it should be back in a week or so...

so im down a week again.... but it feels so nice to be 90+% done...

Talic

looks like the seals are okay
perhaps just too much pressure
i will fab up a bypass and put a restrictor to lower the pressure at the turbo
putting it back together but no advancement
-cry-

Mawnee

What size return line are you running to your oil pan ?
nm I just read what you posted earlier about your plate.....I wasnt aware there were
plates with a no pressure side ? Even so..trying to make the oil go back up the line will definetly cause a build up of back pressure.

Talic

what i did was remove the turbo
with a oil can slowly pumped oil int othe intake oil port
then used an airline to spool the turbo and i found that it has no internal bypass
so all 50-100psi is waiting for the oil to get grabbed by the jurnal bearing and drop it down
so from what i can figure out is it need flow and not pressure on this turbo
so ill put a regulator and a bypass line
then use a scavage pump to grab the bypass and droplets from the lower side
or am i missing something and about to do it wrong? please advise because im about to complete it tomorrow

Talic

im running 3/8 lines both ways
and yes there are sandwich plates that are an open chamber these are good for temp/pressure readings like the rbs.
the other is a duel chamber where the oil must come out and back in before returning to the oil system these are good for intercoolers
i went with this so that i didnt have to tap the pan
but it looks like i should have gone the other route because then the pressure wouldnt have been an issue
anyways what is done cant be undone quickly lol so ill just simply bypass and regulate it

the sample sandwich is here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT
got mine in polished aluminum and it makes it easier to change the filter now that its not so close to the firewall/brake line

Mawnee

Yea you are gonna have to get creative on this since you are remote mount. Normally you run AN -3 for the feed and AN -10 for the drain(downhill to pan) to ensure there is no possible oil pressure buildup.

Talic

im out of ideas
bypass and regulator no result oil still bleeds out the exhaust turbine
which means oil seal is missing or damaged on the ebay turbo
however with the air compressor it spools very nicely, no shaft play and would probibly have worked except for the seal.
im about to buy a turbonics from australlia but im worried about the sizes and possibly blowing a seal again....
any suggestions?
i dont feel like renting a car again while i tear apart the ebay turbo.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the oil seals were being blown out on the Greedy turbo. They had to put a reducer in the line to limit oil flow and there fore pressure.

Mawnee

I remember the big debate about this. Basically those seals are not meant to hold any oil pressure at all. They are only meant to stop air leaks form the other direction. That is why it is important to ensure that the oil is not pressurized there. To this end most run a return line 3x the size of the feed and even put restrictor pills(pinhole) in the feed line. If I recall there was even an issue from someones oil drain line being below the oil level in the oil pan allowing oil to "block" the return line and build up pressure.
Being remote mount is going to make overcoming this very difficult. I know many that ran rear mounts on the vettes ran a seperate oil system for the turbos. =/

Talic

my issue is not the drain
if i leave the drain open the oil still doesnt drop at all unless spooling
and when spooling its like a gram every second the rest of the oil comes out exhaust side.
however last time i had it out with just filling the inlet with oil and spooling it with the compressor no leaks was apparent and the draining of oil was equil to the oil in the intake.
so thus i still believe its too much pressure.
i have an idea
i may clock the jurnal around so that the outlet is at the top
and reduce the flow down to from 3/8s to .035 inch or 1mm
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant..._Code=ATP-OIL2
the outlet has a nice chamber as a resivor.
2ndly ill change the configuration of the scavange pump to hopefully pull the oil away from the turbo outlet (inlet after reclocking) and hopefully prevent backflow

Talic

heres my diagrams
the problem i see with turbo1 is the electric pump may starve at idle but no issues of back flow pressure
the problem i see with turbo2 is possible back flow pressure if the pump cant move it faster then the engine can pump it

Talic

okay got it all figured out and tested
i welded the flange for the oil intake on the turbo closed from3/8s to 1.5mm
this solved the oil seal problem but the issue i face is i welded the pump from 5/8s port to 3/8s port with the aluminum tig welder.
kept it as cold as i could and appeares i have siezed the pump or perhaps i didnt work to beguin with. it was a pump i found in the scrap.
i gave it to my electrician to rig up the relay and i figured he would test his work before returning it to me.
well apparently he didnt and im stuck without a pump to complete the oil system.
so ill be out searchin for a suitable pump. perhaps ill get lucky and find an old mercedies actros (truck and trailer) diesel pump that could work
if that doesnt work ill be down a week or two waiting for a scavange pump to come from the states.

Talic

got my cobb back today
if im lucky ill get the scavange pump also
then all thats left is to finish the vaccumn lines, boost signal line, a/f guage, boost controller, and some exhaust welding.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

cool - getting close ....

Talic

okay lesson time

1. dont buy 2 chamber oil sandwitch plates unless your turbo has its own internal bypass and seals arent affected by pressure go single chamber with scavange to oilpan.

2. dont buy a cobb accessport before the car isnt finished!!! specially when it comes with a 6 month tune and its been 8 months and the car isnt running (prays for MM support)

3. make sure you have $$$ with no future drains such as children or investments

4. dont expect things to go as quickly for your own projects as you do for paying customers as its easier and faster to do projects with other peoples money/objects

5. uhhhhhh

6. learn how to use the tuner you bought before advancing the vehicle with bolt ons or custom works... makes things move quicker


anywho on saturday ill have the oil situation fixed or at least i hope so.
then the rest will be done
ill probibly ask for help setting up the boost controlle and tuning if i cant get help from MM

bad news is in a week or two ill be stuck out in afghanistan for a week or two
upgrading turbos, exhausts, injectors, ecu, fuel system and alternators on some ford f550s (sucks specially when you read point 4)

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

heh - good list . Does MM supply you with a base Turbo map ? If so I may be able to help you with a tune ...

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

if you mean to work from the base FI tune that MM uses, good luck with that. afaik, he hasnt changed policy of having them locked so you cannot access it

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Surely he or Cobb must supply the maps correctly modified for higher loads ?
IE load tables extended etc

Kane

iTrader: (1)

^^ haha

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

well - that sucks .

At least Hymee did that for me with protuner

Talic

can anyone verify for me this is my base map
i hope i grabbed it correctly from my AP through racetuner v1.8
however some of the numbers look funny

another thing with the latest update on my cobb
it looks like i can save the base map to the cobb
(hopefully where i got this one)
however i dont see an actual file for it on the cobb through ap manager

secondly it looks like we can do have it on the obd2 and utalize the live connection through race tuner? is this correct?