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Pettit Super Charger Owners

Old May 27, 2011 | 08:06 PM
  #8901  
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getting filter temps at the air filter/maf--getting post intercooler temps at the same place as you.
my maf temps are only about 5 degrees above ambient--my post intercooler temps are higher, much higher on track.
Galen--you know where I am going dont ya--follow the yellow brick road!
Spoke with Cam only for a few seconds today--he had to go--said 130-140F post intercooler is too high and said call him back next week.
Stay tuned?

Last edited by olddragger; May 27, 2011 at 08:09 PM.
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Old May 28, 2011 | 08:07 AM
  #8902  
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here is a link that shows how fast the gm sensor works
http://www.lextreme.com/adaptronic-tuning.html
more and more factory supercharged cars are doing this guys.
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Old May 28, 2011 | 06:55 PM
  #8903  
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Heading to Sebring tomorrow. Will be testing my oil cooler mod and also my front splitter fab.
Attached Thumbnails Pettit Super Charger Owners-100_1969.jpg   Pettit Super Charger Owners-100_1970.jpg  
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Old May 28, 2011 | 09:31 PM
  #8904  
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thats a nice splitter! I like that.
Can someone get some high speed pic to see how it holds up at speed?
Is that front hood vent pulling a lot of heat out?

We demand vids and data tomorrow night!!
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Old May 29, 2011 | 06:05 AM
  #8905  
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nice. I like your hood too...what is it?
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Old May 29, 2011 | 08:28 AM
  #8906  
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Juan made it out of a oem hood
OD
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Old May 29, 2011 | 12:07 PM
  #8907  
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cool, I'm thinking of modding mine, but am paranoid about making a fail mod!
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Old May 29, 2011 | 10:07 PM
  #8908  
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Originally Posted by olddragger
thats a nice splitter! I like that.
Can someone get some high speed pic to see how it holds up at speed?

It did @ 140 mph and over 110 miles of track time at Sebring.


Is that front hood vent pulling a lot of heat out?

Yes, but had to block the two rear ones cuz they were sucking air in instead of out.

We demand vids and data tomorrow night!!
Here you video but no data. In fact I didn't even plugged the EFI DUDE at all. I was live monitoring my gauges and my MSD Hawk which plugs into the OBDII plug.

This time I mounted the video camera to my helmet. Yes, Sebring is real bumpy and it is brutal on the car suspension and the driver's body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvdb9PxqYR8

^
^
^
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Old May 30, 2011 | 08:20 AM
  #8909  
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Hot, Hot, Hot plus 110 octane VP Racing Fuel
Attached Thumbnails Pettit Super Charger Owners-100_1985.jpg   Pettit Super Charger Owners-100_1986.jpg  
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Old May 30, 2011 | 09:43 AM
  #8910  
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Nice helmet cam--thats still a confusing track to me. I see what you mean about it being bumpy.
Your plastic around the exhaust pipes are going to melt unless you wrap them with header wrap or put some type of metal guard around the plastic.
You are getting pretty smooth out there--bet that was fun, you didnt drive the engine hard and i bet the engine temps reflect that? what speed where you at that last long right handed sweeper before the bridge?
That looks like a real fast turn with plenty of room?

Why would you not want air to be sucked in through those vents? if air is moving at all through the engine bay--in any way--isnt that a good thing?

Hope you can find an 09 trans at some point--you will love it. especially 4-5th.
I sure wish I could see your engine tune. I am scared to go into boost.
How was the intercooler temps? I know you were running the w/m system--right?
looked at plugs?
If you havent changed the diff fluid in over a year do it before you track again.
I sure wish I could get you to Road Atlanta and all the traffic we have here
Car sure sounded good Pettit God. Keep on rotarying

Last edited by olddragger; May 30, 2011 at 09:50 AM.
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Old May 30, 2011 | 01:06 PM
  #8911  
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Originally Posted by olddragger
Nice helmet cam--thats still a confusing track to me. I see what you mean about it being bumpy.

Going to switch from left to right view next time.

Your plastic around the exhaust pipes are going to melt unless you wrap them with header wrap or put some type of metal guard around the plastic.

Pipes already melted a grove on top of the plastic a while back and no need to replace them for now.

You are getting pretty smooth out there--bet that was fun, you didnt drive the engine hard and i bet the engine temps reflect that?

Negative, engine was running hot (225~230 ECT and same with the oil temps). Had to take it easy for a whole lap before I got back to drive it hard. Ambient temps were 94~98 plus track temps. Plenty of power left cuz I never went over 7.5k rpms. Peak power is @ 8.2k rpms.


What speed where you at that last long right handed sweeper before the bridge?

At the end of the straightaway 135~140 and @ 85 while turning.


That looks like a real fast turn with plenty of room?

Nope, it is very bumpy and as a matter of fact I lost it at the end of the first session. Did one clockwise 180 followed by a counterclockwise 180. Basically I stared at both sides of the wall and I almost crapped my pants and totalled the car.

Why would you not want air to be sucked in through those vents? if air is moving at all through the engine bay--in any way--isnt that a good thing?

Negative, I cover the vents on my last session and my temps were much better in spite of the ambient temps been hotter than session three. The down forced air interfere with the engine compartment airflow.

Hope you can find an 09 trans at some point--you will love it. especially 4-5th.

Currently my 04 tranny it is smooth as silk all thanks to Redline MT-90.

I sure wish I could see your engine tune. I am scared to go into boost.

I don't worry at all. 09 fuel injectors (P2 and AUX), half a tank filled with VP Racing 110 octane fuel, 1:1 ratio of Protek, NGK 10.5 leading/11.5 trailing and 75/25 water to VP M-5 ratio.


How was the intercooler temps? I know you were running the w/m system--right?

120~125 The current w/m ratio does not lowers the temps but keeps them constant under boost. Basically, whatever the IAT is at that time it remains the same while heavy boosting.


looked at plugs?

Plugs have less than 2k. Changed then rigth after engine 1k break in. Gaped at .025 and with an extra washer on the trailing plug.


If you havent changed the diff fluid in over a year do it before you track again.

Changed during engine rebuilt with Redline 75w90.

I sure wish I could get you to Road Atlanta and all the traffic we have here

Don't worry soon after I win the lotto and I'll bring the RX8 plus a new Porsche GT3.

Car sure sounded good Pettit God. Keep on rotarying
Thanks, I'm waiting for my current tires to wear out so I can slap my new Enkei RPF1 with 265-35-18.

BTW, talked to Cam yesterday. He said not to worry about the oil temps being 230 while at the track. Also, he told me that the ECT comes from the exit side of the cooling system. I have an additional ECT gauge and I'm going to install the sensor at the exit side of the radiator. Anyway, Cam said "stop worrying so much about the temps while boosting and just drive the them car".

Last edited by marsredr100; May 30, 2011 at 01:09 PM.
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Old May 30, 2011 | 01:39 PM
  #8912  
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Originally Posted by marsredr100
BTW, talked to Cam yesterday. He said not to worry about the oil temps being 230 while at the track.
O rly? Why?
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Old May 30, 2011 | 01:45 PM
  #8913  
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
O rly? Why?
Cuz that's the ECT coming out of the engine.

Any "non-hater" constructive criticism/suggestion you might like to add?

Last edited by marsredr100; May 30, 2011 at 01:51 PM.
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Old May 30, 2011 | 03:04 PM
  #8914  
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Originally Posted by marsredr100
Cuz that's the ECT coming out of the engine.
So, 230 oil AND 230 water at load on the track is OK according to Cam?

Originally Posted by marsredr100
Any "non-hater" constructive criticism/suggestion you might like to add?
Yes, though "hating" is only a Pettit apologist issue.

That is way too hot for both and for you to stay in it.

I start to see 230 after 10 laps or so at 95°F ambient here at a long-ish track like Inde, but oil temps stay in the sub 215°F range.

Oil can get up to as high as 250°, but only if the coolant stays below 220° or so, which won't happen on a Renesis.

Last edited by MazdaManiac; May 30, 2011 at 03:10 PM.
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Old May 30, 2011 | 03:30 PM
  #8915  
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
So, 230 oil AND 230 water at load on the track is OK according to Cam?

Yes, though "hating" is only a Pettit apologist issue.

Sorry but I don't subscribe to life drama cuz my life can be over in a flash

That is way too hot for both and for you to stay in it.

I start to see 230 after 10 laps or so at 95°F ambient here at a long-ish track like Inde, but oil temps stay in the sub 215°F range.

Oil can get up to as high as 250°, but only if the coolant stays below 220° or so, which won't happen on a Renesis.
Same here...ECT 216~230 after 5 or so laps at Sebring 3.7 mile course. My oil temps is a guesstimation since my oil temp sensor is located at the greddy oil pan and not by the oil filter. My oil temp goes up to 260 and I'm subtracting 30 degrees based on the temps I get with a laser gun from top of the filter right after a run.
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Old May 30, 2011 | 06:30 PM
  #8916  
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damn I love Sebring... I feel I know it super well already due to Forza motorsport! I would love to drive it in reality! When I get over to Florida next I will see if we can make it over there......

oil temps will be high on track, especially in sump pre oil coolers.

As for hood, yeah the whole air flow thing is making not want to make some random holes, so I'm thinking about it carefully before doing anything.....

By the way, do you have a cat or a midpipe?
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Old May 30, 2011 | 07:26 PM
  #8917  
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hold on--lots of stuff!
First---two opposing 180's with walls on each side---holy Batman--pucker time!! Change pants?
Glad you stayed on track. What do you think happened? Just went in too hot?

Ok was a hot day--but temps--ok let me see.
You measure yours at the oil pan--not post cooler. And it can get to 260F? Then doing the laser check and post cooler estimation you are thinking about 230F post coolers? Right?
Man thats hot but survivable.
Coolant at 230F on the hot side? Top radiator hose?
Thats hot man. Thats on the edge.
I know Cam gets tired of the heat issues but thats hot.
I will share this, fellow Ga rx8 club member had new engine (n/a) usual good track mods--no cat etc. He ran about 5 w/e's and didnt pay attention to his temperatures ( i did , I recorded them and cautioned him ) his coolant was getting to the 235--240F range measured at the ob2 port, His engine didnt last 5K miles before a coolant seal let go. Steam out the exhaust and coolant on the plug.
I dont care who says its Ok, I will not let my ect get over 225F....period! Oil I watch but if I dont get the coolant over 225F I dont see oil temps over 235F (at the filter). That is with synthetic oil.

I know Cam has done work around the critical areas of the sparkplugs and exhaust ports and those areas may not be as hot as they would be usually with the those temps, but still I am not comfortable enough with that range.
Charge temps 125F? Even with w/m spraying --not too bad and I bet some of that was sensor heat soak,
This engine is different. I may have to work on a little stronger cooling system myself?

Tell us more about what you learned?

On another note-- i have started measuring the hot side intercooler coolant temps. I decided to do this because i cannot find a reasonably prices iat gauge that reacts fast enough.
It is interesting. I wish I knew what the delta between the a/w coolant temp and the actual charge temp. But it was 96F with humidity of 36% today and in just cruising and no boost the temps were in the 114 to 126F range. I did like how responsive it was. It would cool the heat soak after parking in maybe 2 minutes. Drop from a 140F to a 121F and then down to around 114--116 with suburban cruising. You could see the coolant climb immediately when the engine load went up and it would cool very shortly after the load was lighten.
Now research has let me to a max post blower charge temp of 250F at 7 lbs of boost on a 90F day? If we have a 60-70 % efficiency then charge temps would be 120--140F?
Now strange as it may seem but the higher the discharge temp on the blower the more efficient the cooler becomes. So my cruising around data is not a good picture of max efficiency.
So if we are truly getting those types of post blower/intercooler temps--we need that IAT moved so adjustments can be made? We cant rely on w/m to correct this? Right?
OD
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Old May 30, 2011 | 08:49 PM
  #8918  
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Yeh with the post I/C temps I see alot of worries if your temps get a little higher and I have to say that I do like the feel of cooler charge temps such as a 60 or 70 degree day. Keep in mind I've seen self contained systems that cool the water IC or after cooler as its correctly called that run the same coolent as the engine. Yes you herd it rite, it uses the same water pump for the engine and IC.
OD, what would you say to starting from scratch with a new coolent system, oil, engine and IC. I was thinking overkill on everything. Pull all the stock coolers and rads and start totaly over. Larger and thicker cores all the way around. Also include new ducting and relocations. Start totaly from scratch.
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Old May 30, 2011 | 09:02 PM
  #8919  
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Originally Posted by Moon Assad
OD, what would you say to starting from scratch with a new coolent system, oil, engine and IC. I was thinking overkill on everything. Pull all the stock coolers and rads and start totaly over. Larger and thicker cores all the way around. Also include new ducting and relocations. Start totaly from scratch.
Or just go turbo....

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Old May 30, 2011 | 09:07 PM
  #8920  
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Originally Posted by california style
damn I love Sebring... I feel I know it super well already due to Forza motorsport! I would love to drive it in reality! When I get over to Florida next I will see if we can make it over there......

Just pm when you get ready to fly over pond and will see what happens. I got extra helmets too.


oil temps will be high on track, especially in sump pre oil coolers.

As for hood, yeah the whole air flow thing is making not want to make some random holes, so I'm thinking about it carefully before doing anything.....

By the way, do you have a cat or a midpipe?
No cat, just a RB midpipe.
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Old May 30, 2011 | 09:28 PM
  #8921  
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Originally Posted by olddragger
hold on--lots of stuff!
First---two opposing 180's with walls on each side---holy Batman--pucker time!! Change pants?

Glad you stayed on track. What do you think happened? Just went in too hot?

Nope, operator head space error. I was messing around with the speedometer button trying to change from km to miles. THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAING


Ok was a hot day--but temps--ok let me see.
You measure yours at the oil pan--not post cooler. And it can get to 260F? Then doing the laser check and post cooler estimation you are thinking about 230F post coolers? Right?

Yup


Man thats hot but survivable.

Coolant at 230F on the hot side? Top radiator hose?

From the OBDII plug/OEM ECT sensor using the MSD DashHawk.


Charge temps 125F? Even with w/m spraying --not too bad and I bet some of that was sensor heat soak,

Could be but I cut down on the meth cuz I don't want the meth to cut down the Protek lubrication properties.


Tell us more about what you learned?

Check first entry above.

OD
Anyway, I decided to move my second ECT sensor from the current location (coolant reservoir intake hose) to the lower radiator hose using an Auto Meter 1-1/4" Radiator Hose Adapter (currently on order). That way I can measure the coolant temperature after the radiator as well as from the OEM sensor.

Also, going to install a RB TYPE II Oil Press & Temp Sensor Adapter (currently on order) to measure the Oil Temps after the coolers instead of from the current location at the oil pan. This will eliminate oil temperature at the oil filter guesstimation.
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Old May 30, 2011 | 11:51 PM
  #8922  
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Pull all the stock coolers and rads and start totaly over. Larger and thicker cores all the way around. Also include new ducting and relocations. Start totaly from scratch.
I actually believe the stock oil coolers to be more then big enough however the stock thermostats inside of them are not so good. Some day it is my goal to pull the stock oil coolers drill out and remove the thermostat units and put in a single 180* bypassing thermostat unit. like this one.

http://208.109.215.220/files/thermos$.pdf?Submit1=More+Information+and+Pricing

I am very interested to see what my oil temp data logs will look like once I install my RB lines, mazmart oil pressure mod and larger oil pan.
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Old May 31, 2011 | 03:00 AM
  #8923  
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I agree re cooler. If JDM thought 1 cooler is enough, 2 is surely plenty for pretty much anything.
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Old May 31, 2011 | 08:50 AM
  #8924  
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Devil dog--you where doing WHAT?! LOL!!! Dumb *** I was thinking maybe the splitter was doing it!
I have almost done the same except I was trying to deactivate the stability and didnt want to hit the trunk release.

C.S.----- The oil coolers can be ok for track. I have removed one of the oil thermostats before and the only thing that happened was it took the oil longer to come up to temperture.

This is what I have discovered. The oil temps are basically governed by the coolant temps, unless something is really wrong. Get the ect down to 200--210F and the oil temps will fall in line.
It will be interesting to see what the before and after the cooler temps will be. I predict 30-35F degrees?
The temps difference between the heater hose and the ob2 site is 10f degrees. The ob2 site being the hottest. The coolant only picks up about 10 degrees in pasting the exhaust ports.

My coolant system that works pretty good on track (good airflow) even on those on 95F + days is:
1- oem radiator
2- 60/40 coolant blend ( summer blend)
3- mazmart water pump and thermostat
4- drilled thermostat ( this is important)
5- small secondary radiator ( see my build thread) that is plumbed to the heater hose NOT the oem radiator. This makes a big difference.
6- removed the oem front "buck" tooth as that blocks a good bit of constant air flow and installed just one support rod.
7- reinforced oem radiator foam especially on top.
8-cut 2 supports off the oem fans ( those things are thick and wide) to decrease resistance to the fan/radiator air flow.
Thats it. battery box remains in the oem location

Track temps never over 220F--mostly 210-215 range. Rare at 220F I have to be really pushing it. I measure at the top radiator hose.
oil temps 230F or so measured at the oil filter ( remote in my case.)

Now I have not tracked this engine build and I must admit it seems to be challanging the cooling systems more than the others. Thats a good thing!
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Old May 31, 2011 | 11:45 AM
  #8925  
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Originally Posted by olddragger
Devil dog--you where doing WHAT?! LOL!!! Dumb *** I was thinking maybe the splitter was doing it!
I have almost done the same except I was trying to deactivate the stability and didnt want to hit the trunk release.

C.S.----- The oil coolers can be ok for track. I have removed one of the oil thermostats before and the only thing that happened was it took the oil longer to come up to temperture.

This is what I have discovered. The oil temps are basically governed by the coolant temps, unless something is really wrong. Get the ect down to 200--210F and the oil temps will fall in line.
It will be interesting to see what the before and after the cooler temps will be. I predict 30-35F degrees?
The temps difference between the heater hose and the ob2 site is 10f degrees. The ob2 site being the hottest. The coolant only picks up about 10 degrees in pasting the exhaust ports.

My coolant system that works pretty good on track (good airflow) even on those on 95F + days is:
1- oem radiator
2- 60/40 coolant blend ( summer blend)
3- mazmart water pump and thermostat
4- drilled thermostat ( this is important)
5- small secondary radiator ( see my build thread) that is plumbed to the heater hose NOT the oem radiator. This makes a big difference.
6- removed the oem front "buck" tooth as that blocks a good bit of constant air flow and installed just one support rod.
7- reinforced oem radiator foam especially on top.
8-cut 2 supports off the oem fans ( those things are thick and wide) to decrease resistance to the fan/radiator air flow.
Thats it. battery box remains in the oem location

Track temps never over 220F--mostly 210-215 range. Rare at 220F I have to be really pushing it. I measure at the top radiator hose.
oil temps 230F or so measured at the oil filter ( remote in my case.)

Now I have not tracked this engine build and I must admit it seems to be challanging the cooling systems more than the others. Thats a good thing!
Those are some good numbers OD. As long as you dont go any higher then 220 for any extended amount of time.
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