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Yet if anyone questions your estimates, let alone results, you’re just as angry and nasty as the last several replies. Again, you don’t understand the subject as well as you suppose. Just how many sets of results will it take to satisfy you? I propose that regardless of how many, you’ll still claim them all to be inaccurate, false, in error, or outright lies.
It all starts here, and using your own words; all your experience is on a Renesis and that’s all you know. Yet you also don’t know it as well as you suppose either and also use theory liberally when it serves your own agenda. All that’s going on here is that you can’t see past all your incorrect assumptions. Until all that I’ve been sharing lately is fully grasped, then the same mistakes and misunderstandings will continue. As I’ve been attempting to share with everyone including yourself; a Renesis is not a 13B and they need to be addressed differently based on the provided explanations. It’s pretty much the issue since 2003; everyone keeps trying to apply the same methodology, which in a number of situations is not going to produce fruitful results. As you well know from your own attempts to keep doing the same.
Let me show you something else to blow your mind; EFR 9180 IWG in the RX8 low-mount position (REW engine)
The guy who did that is a rotary genius imo. Not that what you see there requires any genius. That’s just looking at all the boundaries and figuring out if it’s actually possible or not. In the meantime others who suppose themselves smart play gimmick games with one hand tied behind their back rather than address all the kluges that are holding them back.
Some people claim that doing something means more. Well you can keep trying to force a square peg into a smaller round hole from here to eternity while someone else can clearly see that it will never fit and accepts the situation for what it is. I place my faith in most people being able to recognize the difference between the two. The personal animosity you and others are doggedly hanging onto in your hearts is holding you all back from bigger and greater things. Because this knowledge comes as a gift from one greater than me. As it was given freely to me, so am I gifting it freely to others. I can’t force you to accept it though. Just keep making the same mistakes then.
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All I did was follow the science and it lead me to the same conclusion I had already made from my gut feeling ...... which was based on past experience. I'm sure you will think I cooked the numbers to convince myself (and justify my position) so you should try it for yourself.
You're "angry and nasty" remark comes across as funny to me because the way I react to you is just to take all your crap and throw it back at you with interest. Your manner requires that approach ................ IMO
As far as the rest of what you are saying goes , I agree with you . You can fit whatever you like if you are prepared to go to extreme lengths (as Jetset has already proved). I've been more interested in keeping within practical limits and maybe that has held me back.
At the end of the day though ............. Is the expected result worth going to extreme lengths for ?
LOL .... That one ... I believe 100%. Because .... someone took a huge 1000 hp turbo and made big power on low boost . A heavily modified engine with lots of overlap as well no doubt. Overlap works well with low backpressure ......... not surpsrising at all .
A T51R is not typically a 1000 hp rotary turbo, but it finally sounds like you’re coming around to the truth
It get’s up there though; plenty of data on the same turbo with 13B, but at 2x the boost to get near those numbers on race gas or E85. That engine does it on E10 gas and low boost. Some good winning there.
So there’s more to it than just overlap, because if that were the case then the hybrid engine dyno sheet wouldn’t be the disaster that many people don’t seem to recognize for what it is. You have all the information, but haven’t put it together yet. Clearly me just telling you won’t be heard, you’ll need to get there on your own to fully accept it. Once you do you’ll see how just about everyone is doing it wrong, not just here but over on RX7Club and everywhere else too. Technology progressed, but their mind is still trapped in repeating the past rather advancing their thinking with it.
That aside, I’m putting the full list of hybrid fail together though and will post it at some point. There’s been no shortage of either effort or money poured down the drain trying to force this square hybrid peg into the undersize round reality hole.
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Once you do you’ll see how just about everyone is doing it wrong, not just here but over on RX7Club and everywhere else too. Technology progressed, but their mind is still trapped in repeating the past rather advancing their thinking with it.
I'm comforted by the suggestion that pretty much everyone is doing it wrong. Will wait for your book to come out telling all the plebs how stupid they are - I need a door stop for the garage.
BTW ...... I can see what they did to get that amazing result ...... 9000 rpm .
I’m not calling anyone stupid Brettus, those are your words, not mine. I just don’t think many of the engine I’m seeing built are taking advantage of certain things for the reason stated. I really wish you’d pull your head out from down under. You have plenty to say when it comes to how great you consider yourself to be. Can’t we just move on from this kind of approach?
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I’m not calling anyone stupid Brettus, those are your words, not mine. I just don’t think many of the engine I’m seeing built are taking advantage of certain things for the reason stated. I really wish you’d pull your head out from down under. You have plenty to say when it comes to how great you consider yourself to be. Can’t we just move on from this kind of approach?
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I'm sure if you looked at my response to others you would see that I'm civil and respectful . You on the other hand .... not so much. You stop being ..........you................ and I'll start talking to you in the same way.
But in response to the above dyno ....... I was a bit too quick with my previous answer. Yes, it's more than just overlap and a big turbo , it's also rpm. To make that happen would have required some r&d getting it to flow so well up top like that.
If by "my way" you mean .... let's discuss how this might have been achieved in a logical, respectful way, taking the science and known facts into consideration. Then ..yes absolutely.
Maybe you should go back and refresh yourself on history by rereading the entire thread. The two you’re trying to guess at are were perhaps five or more years apart. Maybe start here because 10 years later it only becomes “more impressive” by the day:
Originally Posted by Mazdatrix
After long day of installation and a long night of tuning by our tuner Nelson Siviero, our Street RWD RX-8 turned out 290 HP at 7400 rpm at 14psi.
More impressive, however, were the midrange numbers - above 249 HP from 5600 to 8800, and 229 ft lbs of torque at 5600. It will be a very drivable package.
After this weekend’s Redine Time Attack at Infineon Raceway, we will get back on the dyno and find some more power with a different throttle body, different muffler setup, and a different Turbonetics turbo. At this point, it is tuned safely and ready to hit the track.
I suppose it’s it’s a good thing they had all that high rpm working to their advantage.
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Back on the dyno last night with some changes in the setup. We switched from a Racing Beat race/sport exhaust to a racing beat straight through muffler (FYI we have to run a cat per the Redline Time Attack rules) and installed an aluminum intake with a larger throttle body.
New peak numbers are at 361 HP with 257 ft.lbs, at 14 pounds of boost and 14 degrees of timing. We might have gone for more but are now at the limit of our fuel pump and injectors, so we will have to upgrade those before going for bigger numbers.
The car will be on track this weekend at the Redline Time Attack finale at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana.
This is the link I posted above from November 2011
Originally Posted by Mazdatrix
Sorry about the long delay we have had a busy year so far.
We were able to get our Time Attack RX-8 with the multi-port turbocharged Renesis back on the dyno recently and finally got the numbers we expected. 413hp at 14psi, still conservative on the tune as we are planning to get back on the dyno soon for more improvements.
And this is the last one ..(don't know the date)
So ...how did they make 20 more whp with 3 pounds less boost ? Did they fit a bigger turbo or change the engine design ? I don't know ...do you ?
Edited that previous post to make sure everyone was on on the same reference page. It obviously flies/screams just as would be expected for that dyno graph.
Hilarious!
Now have a look at a real life one for same turbo from a respected member on the rx7 forum:
Blue T11 "Here is the initial dyno at 26psi boost.
I have the 13psi springs in the wastegate because I want to be able to run low boost on pump gas and then turn up the boost on race gas.
The low boost wastegate springs are probably a contributing factor on the boost fade this set up has. It hits peak boost fast, but then fades down. We turned up the manual boost controller and both peak boost and faded boost rose about the same so we went ahead with the tuning session.
Final dyno (shown) is 26psi peak boost and fading to ~20psi from memory."
Maybe there’s more to the puzzle than it seems
Here are my Dyno results with the 7670. Seems to be inline with what others are seeing. This is at 15 PSI of boost on 92 octane pump gas.
Are there really any benefits of the side exhaust ports from the REN in this build? From what I can collect the only potentially beneficial aspect of the Ren is how much engineering went into the variable intake for lower end drivability. Ideally wouldn't we want the intake system of the REN with the exhaust ports of a 13b being able to turbo easier?
If the overlap is such an issue, what are the thoughts on reducing the overlap with 74-78 housings since the exhaust opens/closes sooner? (Disregarding the coolant jacket issue) Maybe these open too soon?
Other than the turbo lag from such a large manifold, where else is drivability suffering for this to be a viable street build?
10-01-2020, 02:02 PM
