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Dilshan, Love the new mods! I'm still waiting to put my SC back on till I smog. But I would be so grateful if you had a cad of the pulley or at least just the dimensions you used so I can copy what you made. Were you also able to reuse the same belts? The spring pressure on the bypass looks like it will work great but I like using the Greddy boost controller I have and an Arduino to hold the bypass open while in NA so I think I'll just stay with the setup I have for this. I'm also really glad that you have the Versituner software as so do I and with the latest update 22.1.6.0 they have additional rx8 gen 1 tuning support!
Here's a few things from they're site that I think I'm finally on board with using it to tune with:
"The OEM Mazda RX-8 ECU tuning tables are limited to low loads of naturally aspirated engines and are quickly maxed out when a turbo/supercharger is installed. VersaTuner allows you to edit the axis values of tuning tables, so you can precisely control the engine even at higher than stock loads or RPMs.
It can also automatically interpolate the table values so that engine operation at normal loads remains unchanged. All this allows you to create robust and accurate tunes for turbocharged or supercharged Mazda RX-8 vehicles."
I did successfully tune my car with the e-Manage piggyback pulling multiple runs and editing the maps to keep the AFRs in the low to mid 12s but Versituner will let you base the timing and the injector duty cycles on engine load and lets you modify the table axis to increase the normal loads, RMP, etc that the a NA maps use and also use them to run both in NA mode and SC mode with the same maps. Too complicated for me right now to be honest so I'm going to hire an e-tuner from the list of tuners on Versituner's site. Maybe after I see their mods I'll start doing my own. Here's the list of tuners: https://www.versatuner.com/etuning. I also am looking at wiring in the MAP sensor into the MAF input and remapping the input but I'll ask the tuner if that's really necessary or if the stalk MAF can handle it. I'm using an addon AFR sensor with an LC-2 Digital Air/Fuel Ratio (Lambda) Sensor Controller for the e-Manage and also to readout the AFR inside the car. Do you have an AFR? I guess you can just use the stalk one since you're using Versituner but I think it's good to be able to watch this while you're in boost.
Don't forget that Versituner works great to set dwells aftermarket coils, increase oils injection and set your cooling fans to come on sooner...
Anyway, congrats on the awesome work!!
Thanks, i don't have a CAD file as i did the custom pulley work manually. I increased the outer pulley by 13mm to match the max rpm as per your xl sheet. Alternator side kept same as the original size.Regarding the belt i was able to use the same belt.. no issues for now.. maybe slightly longer belt for the supercharger side will increase the belt wrap which i think is better. Let’s see..
Soon planing to add a AEM watermeth kit and thinking to place nozzle like yours just before the supercharger to run just water..i saw you claimed an increase of boost? As per the AEM manual it says not to put after the TB. But also they have mentioned nozzle has a in built check valve and no need to put a external check valve.. so i don’t see any harm placing the nozzle after the TB and before SC.. any suggestions?
regarding the tune finally i’m in touch with the Ryan rotary performance as i got to knw he has done the same supercharger tune before. He gave me couple of suggestions ..once everything is ready hopefully can start the tune and update the process.
Last edited by Dilshan Liyanage; 09-23-2022 at 09:47 AM.
Dilshan, I think the e-tuner you're going with has the best experiance with this setup. Make sure he doesn't sell you a locked tune incase you want to change anything later on yourself.
I started drawing up the upsized pulley like what you made and decided to remeasure everything. Found all of the pulleys and double checked them and I'm sure that the what I have in the picture and the uploaded excel file are right. While measuring I took another look the the compressor and matched up the some base measurements from their pdf and it looks to be a TX-15 not a TX-12. Sorry if I may have given you any bad info but I think you may have your rpms too high with the new setup.
I think you can mount the watermeth on either side of the SC. I decided to put mine before the SC to help keep the housings cool too. Make sure you get some kind of failsafe for it so incase it stops pumping you'll get a warning or shut off the SC.
Thanks for the info and really appreciate your time and effort..well all this time we thought this is a TX12 blower instead of TX15.Then it’s a good news.At least its bigger than TX12 ..After seeing your last post i have decided to recalculate my pulleys properly this time..
As you can see since i have a small under-drive crank pulley my RPMs are still less than what blitz came up with..(thinking you have a stock crank pulley)so with the new pulley i saw closer to 0.6 bar bypass fully closed mode.i think sticking to new pulley is no harm.
i have made couple of changes to my setup before the tune.
now Bypass is directly feeding the engine. its more beneficial for the N/A mode.
as per tuners suggestion i have swapped my plugs to cold ones and planing to link the Supercharger to VFAD. in that way can activate SC around 1500 rpm. Tuners concern was not having a vacuum bypass system.. so i told him on original setup also blitz designed it that way..bypass unit was only there to control the boost.. i have decided to go with current setup and start the tune and see..If required i will change the system to work as vacuum bypass.. currently looking at mini-cooper type s bypass valve.. i think it will work for this setup if required.i have already received the first base tune and yet to start the data logging..
Last edited by Dilshan Liyanage; 09-29-2022 at 02:24 PM.
Thought of sharing a update, currently i’m on 10th gen tune on the setup and tune wise everything going smooth..we found SC is boosting even at 1500 rpm..so decided to bring down the VFAD activating point to 1350RPM..its working perfectly now.
i had a severe belt slip above 6500RPM.. changed belts, tightened the belts as much as i can..but had no luck..only option was to change the pulleys back to stock ones as we suspected all my aluminum pulleys not giving the required grip..
went back to
- stock crank pulley(almost 18mm bigger than previous after market pulley)
-kept the same water pulley as it was exactly same as oem size
-changed to Blitz original double pulley (this is 10mm smaller than custom one)
resulting +8mm extra pulley increased the boost up to +9psi and no belt slip!!. Immediately felt the extra power gain. car is so enjoyable and powerful to drive..tuner was very helpful and nice enough to do all the changes again..
@gearsoft,So this proves our calculations were right.. blitz designed it to overdrive.i dont knw why blitz mechanically limited the capable system to boost only 6.5 psi.. maybe lack of intercooler.so if you have the stock pulley setup you dont need to change anything.. it’s giving enough boost. Only thing is you have to close the boost bypass system.
currenly tune is still going on and system is running rich.. tuner started to cleanup the fuel now.
i’m bit concerned adding a water injection before the SC as it will further increase my boost since i dont have a way to control the boost.I don’t want to change the tune for watermeth.i just want it to be there for extra safety and if it helps to make more boost thats ++
here is my new pulley setup
i will update once everything is done..
Last edited by Dilshan Liyanage; 10-28-2022 at 01:17 PM.
Dilshan,
I checked the gap and it's 0.018". It's been working great so this should be a good target. I couldn't find any spec for rebuilding the clutch on the Ogura site for that model but did find some other models they listed that seam to match what I'm running.
Model Type - Air Gap Range
GT1, GT1A - 0.012” ~ 0.024”
GT2, GT2.5 - 0.015” ~ 0.024”
GT3.5, GT4, GT5 - 0.016” ~ 0.024”
Dilshan,
I checked the gap and it's 0.018". It's been working great so this should be a good target. I couldn't find any spec for rebuilding the clutch on the Ogura site for that model but did find some other models they listed that seam to match what I'm running.
Model Type - Air Gap Range
GT1, GT1A - 0.012” ~ 0.024”
GT2, GT2.5 - 0.015” ~ 0.024”
GT3.5, GT4, GT5 - 0.016” ~ 0.024”
Hope that helps.
Thanks. Mine is closer to your gap.
0.017 (0.43mm)
So I finally got motovated to start on the intercooler setup. Getting the parts together now. Here's my todo list:
1. Battery relocate and cleaning up the wiring.
2. AEM intake. This will give me room for a v-mount intercooler.
3. Side mount IC. Found a Renault 5 R5 GT style IC I think will work nice since the in and out are both on the same side and the SC outlet and inlet are both on the right side of the engine. This will make a lot shorter tubing run. The v-mount under the hood looks like a good option since it won't block the radiator and help the car to stay cooool. We all know how rotaries get. I might just get an IC core and make IC from that rather the buy it build so I can customize it to fit better. Anyone wanting offer feedback I'm open.
4. Versatuner tuner and tuning by Ryan's Rotary. Getting rid of the e-MANAGE Ultimate (everyone say YAH!). Since I already own a copy... I'm still going to use my custom Arduino box and control the bypass, watermeth and SC clutch and keeping the BLITZ Dual SBC to control boost.
Here's a few pics of the part and a cad of the manifold I'm building:
there’s a new aftermarket ball-bearing support available now for the front of the e-shaft that replaces the entire front thrust bearing assembly that anyone with an SC should strongly consider. While it’s primary purpose was to decrease e-shaft deflection under high power loads, it would also keep high SC belt tension from grinding the e-shaft into the front stationary bearing. An additional benefit imo is that the front cover can be pulled and the bearing replaced easily, front seal, etc. (easily, given the conditions mind you) without any worry of a thrust bearing falling out of place.
While it was initially intended for high hp drag race engine use, I spoke to them about it and a number of people have been running on the street for the past year and to date without any issue. By eliminating this thrust bearing with a ball bearing there then is no need for fore-aft e-shaft clearance/movement. The e-shaft is held firmly in place, which is also going to help the rotors to orbit truer and with less tendency for the rotor tips to lean or deflect over into the iron side plate surfaces.
.
TeamRX8, Sounds like a needed mod. If you have a link or company name I'm interested. The last rebuild I did after running the SC for less then a year I did see some extra wear on the front and rear bearings. About 11 oclock on the front and 5 oclock on the rear. which lines up with the belt pressure for the SC.
Looks like this will be my intercooler setup. The racing beat intake and stock radiator overflow bottle fit with the intercooler like this. I also checked tubing routing and it works, and all still fits under the hood. Figure I'll finish the battery move, clean up all the wiring and mount the intercooler, then make sure it runs well at stage zero before putting the supercharger back on and tuning it. Looking at the water-meth injection point it really doesn't make sense to have it infront of the SC since it would get water in the IC, so I'll move that somewhere after the bypass on the outlet side of the IC.
Quick sketch I made before buying the intercooler.
feel free to comment.
Last edited by gearsoft; 11-19-2022 at 06:22 PM.
Reason: Added inventor sketch
It’s Great to see you also started the project..i think V mount intercooler setup is the best for this although i went for FMIC.still i have a small lag which is ok for me..i like how it looks from the outside.from my experience i have learnt 2 inch tube size on hot side helped to induce lag.. better if you can do the same.
i think its better if you can go for 2 stage water injection setup both pre super charger and post intercooler.i have noticed when i push the supercharger hard its getting really hot..i don’t think having a small amount of water before the supercharger will block the intercooler..red somewhere if you inject small amount it will absorbed by the supercharger and will not reach huge amount in to the IC also it help to make more boost.so i think your current position is good. I’m planing to do the same.already got the AEM setup with 250cc 2 nozzles.
i’m done with the tune and car runs perfectly. such a blast to drive..so powerful.i’m loving it.🔥🔥Versa-tuner worked great for me. I activated the launch control also.tuner limited my max rpm to 8250.i have decided to increase it to 8500 but noticed supercharger getting hot..That’s why i’m considering pre water injection soon..currently i’m happy with the tune and it is boosting up 10psi.
better if you can go for high flow fuel pump as my stock fuel pump failed.as per tuners advice i’m running Dw200 pump with stock injectors and all 4 RE9BT plugs with stock coils.this setup works great for me.i think this project is totally worth it.Thanks for everyones input and support.
@gearsoft Can’t wait to see your final results.Let me know if you need any help.
Last edited by Dilshan Liyanage; 11-20-2022 at 03:03 PM.
Placed above the radiator like that ...there is a danger your intercooler becomes an interheater instead. That's if you are leaving rad in stock location obviously ............. if you are doing a true V'mount I'd still question whether that tiny IC will do much. I'd look at a FMIC location and a much bigger IC. Or a water to air setup like Petit does.
Placed above the radiator like that ...there is a danger your intercooler becomes an interheater instead. That's if you are leaving rad in stock location obviously ............. if you are doing a true V'mount I'd still question whether that tiny IC will do much. I'd look at a FMIC location and a much bigger IC. Or a water to air setup like Petit does.
Thanks Brettus, love the feedback! It will get heat soaked just sitting like I have it but I'm still playing with the design. Might do more of a top mount with a custom hood vent or atleast increase the high to low air pressure to flow through. Maybe a fan for sitting in traffic too. Not looking at tracking just some fun street. Also I'm still keeping the WM injestion and as Dilshan suggested, adding WM pre and post supercharger. I think this IC will be plenty for only 10lbs boost. Have you seen the stock rx7 IC? I know a lot of people upgrade but I'm sure stock is still very streetable.
Here's my top-mount idea... The water bottle might have to go. Definitly not more air-pump!
But look how well this lines up if I remake the IC ends to come straight out!
I think this IC will be plenty for only 10lbs boost. Have you seen the stock rx7 IC?
I haven't looked at an rx7 IC setup in detail but I can't imagine Mazda would set it up without cool air running through it. Your IC doesn't look big enough to run 10 psi IMO . I certainly wouldn't use one that small on a turbo setup running 10psi ...... and turbos are generally more efficient than a SC.
Although .............. A SC will only be at 10psi at the end of the rev range ...... right ? So that might be a mitigating factor.
the discharge temperature is also likely lower than a turbo too, but I almost made an interheater comment myself before somebody else did and decided to just let it go.
It’d maybe work well enough if receiving ambient air, but not likely without. There has to be a notable differential temperature inside vs out for it to be effectively efficient. Otherwise the closer the two temperatures are, the less effective the heat transfer process will be.
you might also consider making smooth radius bends and even a curving diversion plate in the middle rather than the clunky angles. It’s not hard at all to get thin, flat metal material formed to a radius. Just welding some and hammering some with a mallet will even get it done in the most basic sense.
I haven't looked at an rx7 IC setup in detail but I can't imagine Mazda would set it up without cool air running through it. Your IC doesn't look big enough to run 10 psi IMO . I certainly wouldn't use one that small on a turbo setup running 10psi ...... and turbos are generally more efficient than an IC.
Although .............. A SC will only be at 10psi at the end of the rev range ...... right ? So that might be a mitigating factor.
Thanks Brettus and TeamRX8 for the input. For sure an interheater the way I have it pictured. I was looking at doing a true v-mount but man that's just too much work moving the radiator and everything! Then I thought, maybe a hood scoop... Then I started looking at just doing a fmic, they are pretty simple. But after a little more research I'm thinking about using an air to water IC. Super low pressure drop and not as complicated to install as I was thinking.
Check out this concept:
I know I need to mount a separate heat exchanger, pump and reservoir, but I don't think it's that much extra to do, and there's plenty of room now that the battery is in the trunk!
TeamRX8, Thanks for the link to the aftermarket ball-bearing support! I bought it on black friday and saved a few bucks. Like you said, it is doable with the engine in the car so I'll give it a try.
09-23-2022, 09:32 AM
