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Curtís Gr8t 8 Turbo Build

Old 10-08-2018, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbrx8 View Post
So, I can't say at what RPM peak is achieved. .
Just look at your absolute load log .... boost threashold rpm stands out .
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:48 PM
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I ran my Greddy for a year around 12-13psi with no issues. I use RON 98 rated gas (I think E30 has RON 100 rating), and kept an eye on AFRs every now and then during WOT pulls. With your larger turbine housing, your setup will be much happier/safer than a Greddy T25 housing at 10+psi, as there's less exhaust manifold back-pressure hammering the engine.

I've heard that running Ethanol blends on piston engines dilutes the oil, so more frequent oil changes are required in order to avoid spinning a bearing. Not sure if more frequent oil changes are required with rotaries on ethanol, given that oil in the combustion chamber is burned.
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JimmyBlack View Post
I ran my Greddy for a year around 12-13psi with no issues. I use RON 98 rated gas (I think E30 has RON 100 rating), and kept an eye on AFRs every now and then during WOT pulls. With your larger turbine housing, your setup will be much happier/safer than a Greddy T25 housing at 10+psi, as there's less exhaust manifold back-pressure hammering the engine.

I've heard that running Ethanol blends on piston engines dilutes the oil, so more frequent oil changes are required in order to avoid spinning a bearing. Not sure if more frequent oil changes are required with rotaries on ethanol, given that oil in the combustion chamber is burned.
Problem is ...at 12-13psi ...the rx8perf kit will flow more and make more power so it's a swings and roundabouts thing . I ran that boost and higher on my old greddy setup as well but def. wouldn't recommend it to anyone ....... Anyone i liked anyway
Re the oil ... the guys at HPR showed me the oil from a high power rotary that was running E85 .... It smelt like a wild night on the rum !
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:42 AM
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3rd gear pull this morning @ peak psi 10.4. Pulls hard from ~4.2k on...


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Old 10-09-2018, 01:25 PM
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Are you running the stock timing on the intake valves, or have any disabled? It looks like you are hitting an airflow limit around 6800-7200RPM, then it suddenly clears up and power ramps again.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by furansu View Post
Are you running the stock timing on the intake valves, or have any disabled? It looks like you are hitting an airflow limit around 6800-7200RPM, then it suddenly clears up and power ramps again.
Furansu, Good question...I also noticed the consistent "rise" ~7.2-3k in my dynos, just after the "limit" you identified. Actually seems ... a restriction from ~5.8k - 7.2k. My presumption w/b having to do w/ opening of Aux Intake ports..., but intended to discuss it w/ Brett who's doing my tuning. W/b nice to realize a bit more torque thru that range.

Last edited by jcbrx8; 10-22-2018 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:06 PM
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It'll be interesting to see what he says. The VDI valve normally engages at 7250RPM, fully possible the valve actuation need adjustment given the significant gains in airflow from the turbocharger. You could set the VDI valve actuation window down a few thousand RPM and see if you pickup or lose power there, paying close attention to AFR to assure it doesn't go too lean (add a bit of fuel just before the valve window in the tables to mitigate the 'lean surge' of the valve. You could do the same with the Aux ports to see if they pickup power at a lower RPM now.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:19 PM
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I like to deactivate the VDI altogether . It's an NA valve only and with FI it tends to just create a power drop as it opens but has no other effect - positive or negative.
The APV valve activation I set coming in a few hundred rpm earlier . The ideal activation point is largely dependent on the rate of acceleration of the engine in the gear you are testing . This is due to the relatively slow motion of the valve . The faster the engine is accelerating , the sooner you want to activate the APV . Unfortunately once you go FI acceleration rates are almost double that of NA and finding an activation point that is ideal for each gear is impossible with the control we have.
What you see above in Curtis's VD is pretty typical . A slight drop as the APV opens then a bit of a surge in power. VD does tend to exagerate these things though unfortunately . A real dyno it would look better than above in midrange but with a lower peak.

Last edited by Brettus; 10-09-2018 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jcbrx8 View Post
Furansu, Good question...I also noticed the consistent "rise" ~7.2-3k in my dynos, just after the "limit" you identified. Actually seems ... a restriction from ~5.8k - 7.2k. My presumption w/b having to do w/ opening of Aux Intake ports..., but intended to discuss it w/ Brett who's doing my tuning today. W/b nice to realize a bit more torque thru that range.
It's not just the APV doing that . It's also the slight dropoff in boost as rpms rise plus increased backpressure at the turbine. Lots of factors really . The upturn at the end could also just be an anomaly .... Sometimes I just have to put things down to 'something weird' happened as it hurts my brain trying to dig any deeper ...lol
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Brettus View Post
It's not just the APV doing that . It's also the slight dropoff in boost as rpms rise plus increased backpressure at the turbine. Lots of factors really . The upturn at the end could also just be an anomaly .... Sometimes I just have to put things down to 'something weird' happened as it hurts my brain trying to dig any deeper ...lol
Brett, Lol...thanks for the explanation...
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:21 AM
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Wow, great thread man and thanks for the shout out, glad my thread could be of any assistance at all. Very methodical build, great job planning things out and dealing with the issues as they happened.

Your numbers look promising and its good to finally see a well documented build with this turbo kit as I have always said that if I was to do it again I would go with this kit.

Also great job not rushing into things and allowing Brett to dial that tune in, I believe that's the biggest factor in going FI with the 8 and the main reason I've managed to get nearly 60,000kms and 8 years with my turbo setup.

Keep us posted!
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RotaryMachineRx View Post
Wow, great thread man and thanks for the shout out, glad my thread could be of any assistance at all. Very methodical build, great job planning things out and dealing with the issues as they happened.

Your numbers look promising and its good to finally see a well documented build with this turbo kit as I have always said that if I was to do it again I would go with this kit.

Also great job not rushing into things and allowing Brett to dial that tune in, I believe that's the biggest factor in going FI with the 8 and the main reason I've managed to get nearly 60,000kms and 8 years with my turbo setup.

Keep us posted!
RotaryMachineRx, Thanks...much appreciated. Yes, I believe we have similar objectives for our builds: i.e. a beautiful, reliable, DD w/ more HP/ Trq. Your build was among those that convinced me it c/b done. Thank you.

As I've stated I'm happy w/ progress to date and my #s, and will likely enjoy it as is ...for a bit, while taking care of a few loose ends, e.g. front under-tray, ducting, aesthetics, etc.; as I consider if I'm willing to accept the constraints as well as the benefits of going E30.

Tuning...yes, I've seen the tuning options over the years...and am thankful for a knowledgeable, experienced, amiable guy like Brett to collaborate w/ for tuning.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:38 PM
  #63  
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About 1k miles in and all is well. I believe I've the EBC fairly well dialed in for a low and high setting. Enjoying relearning to drive her in the cool weather (50s & 60s F). Just hate that' its been raining lately.

Last edited by jcbrx8; 10-17-2018 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:37 PM
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Quick update: Here's a screen shot from my AEM Failsafe gauge of a 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear (as far as I was comfortable) WOT pull. A little context:
  • I still have a small exhaust manifold leak, which I intend to correct over winter.
  • The x-axis units measure "time" as it's a commonly known difficultly to tap RPM on our 8s. I may try to sort that later via tapping coils or Hall Effect sensor, but meanwhile, x-axis here is "time".
I'm still fine tuning my EBC as access to the AEM's capability to log and review psi across the entire rpm range is a far superior tool then the momentary "peak psi" captured via my Profec B 2 I was using to tune.
That said targeting 10 psi... today my system generates:
  • 2nd: 8.2 peak, 7.7 hold
  • 3rd: 10.5 peak, 9.7 hold
  • 4th: 11.0 peak, 10.3 hold
Still... a blast to drive , but room to improve low end response relative to my objectives: reliable DD / track car fully spooled at ~4.2k, @ 325-350 rwHP. Anticipating improved spool once my manifold is completely sealed.


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Old 10-20-2018, 05:05 PM
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Looking good !
So in 3rd gear from a low rpm start .... at what rpm do you see 10psi ?
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Old 10-20-2018, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Brettus View Post
Looking good !
So in 3rd gear from a low rpm start .... at what rpm do you see 10psi ?
Brett, Thx. At this point... the 3rd gear pull I posted back on 10/9 (re-posted here) s/b still largely accurate. I don't really expect any significant spool improvement until I'm successful in getting the mani truly sealed.




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Old 10-21-2018, 11:44 PM
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Well, had a bit of a scare yesterday. Took the 8 for a drive to do some M/E and AEM logging. During a 2nd gear WOT heard a pop and saw a plume of white smoke in the rear view. Backed off, checked gauges, all good ...,a few seconds later coolant temp alarm goes off (215F). I cruise low rpm, low load ~1/2 mile, coolant temp drops. I pull over to side of the road, inspect, & find coolant mist all over rear bumper. Get back in and low coolant cel is lit. Wifey brings me a couple gallons of water. I start the engine and start filling w/ water, and its leaking out underneath...somewhere on the driver side of sump. So, I'm on the side of the road, no jack stands, no tools... so get her towed to the house, and enjoy an evening considering the worst case scenarios caused by this evenings activity. Reach out to Brett for a diagnostic assist. He basically says, "Chill mate, don't jump to conclusions, find the leak". Good advice. So, today, I put her on stands, and start filling coolant and pretty quickly find an 1 1/2" gash in the heater hose that runs down along the driver side of the engine. Cut, refit the hose, refill w/ coolant, and go for a spin. All good. Whew.


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Old 10-22-2018, 12:22 AM
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if this is the one just under the master cylinder, and it failed replace all your coolant hoses!

do not ask me how i know. I am enjoying this thread..

beers
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:01 AM
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I had the exact same thing happen about 6-12 months ago. I forgot to secure the lower radiator hose back from my turbo manifold and it slowly melted until I had steam shooting under my car. Luckily I caught it before it was gushing. **** happens, you should be good to go.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by swoope View Post
if this is the one just under the master cylinder, and it failed replace all your coolant hoses!
do not ask me how i know. I am enjoying this thread..
beers
Thanks, Swoope! Will do. Yeah, ...was my biggest "scare" yet being boosted. Definitely want to avoid that happening again. I'm developing a game plan to fully seal my ex. mani sometime this winter, I'll replace all my hoses then. Thx!

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Old 10-25-2018, 07:00 PM
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Well, as committed... the good, bad, this is the ugly. I took the car out Mon. evening ...simple cruise...think I hit 1 psi. After driving ~ 5 mi I stopped for gas. After filling up she wouldn't start. Multiple attempts...cranked strong, but would not start. Thought to let the engine cool. After some time while waiting I looked underneath and saw a pool of coolant generally...under manifold area (recall I still have the ex mani leak). So, popped the coolant cap and was topping it up. As I continued to periodically crank the engine I could see wafs of smoke emanating from the coolant overfill bottle coinciding w/ when the engine was being cranked. After ~an hr of cranking, waiting, and getting jumps...finally got her started... white smoke billowing everywhere, and was able to drive directly home. Since...she starts, but has rough idle and fair amount of white smoke. So, I'm reasonably confident, unfortunately, that whatever happened last Sat ruptured the coolant o-ring in the rotor 2 housing. I was logging last Sat when the initial "event" happened and AFRs repeatedly drove to ~10.6 in boost, coolant and oil temps were ~205F and 190F, respectively. After the event coolant climbed past my alarm threshold (215F) to 220F before dropping back to normal range. So, given that data my presumption is this was simply the product of boosting a 65k mile reman'd non-built engine, which btw I expected to "go"..., but not so soon.

So, currently considering options, cost, and time frames for next steps...
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:54 PM
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This is really bad luck jcb .... Glad you are able to be up front about it and let people know what happened.
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:48 PM
  #73  
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So sad to see that the engine died.

Good opportunity to rebuild with better seals, dowelling, billet studs, porting, etc
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:42 AM
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That really sucks.

If it really is just a cooling seal and no damage was done to the housings or plates, you could get another closing kit and some better apex seals for like $400-500 and rebuild it yourself (assuming all other components are in good shape).. I rebuilt mine by watching two jobbers from Australia on YouTube. Motor came out fine.
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Old 10-26-2018, 06:13 PM
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Only issue with that is that almost every engine that is ever pulled apart at any more than token mileage has worn out housings.
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