Brettspeed Fuel Pump Solution - FI on high speed corners
02-07-2015, 04:28 AM
#151
Apparently it was discussed previously, not sure how I missed this thread other than trying to read anything swoope posts is like trying to decipher an unknown ancient language
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...premix-164726/
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Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-07-2015 at 04:44 AM.
02-07-2015, 05:03 AM
#152
Based on this post/pictures:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...0/#post4574649
I'm pretty sure this would be the correct AEM pump for the S2 housing. In the link above he bought the standard AEM pump that is the 'long' version, this is the 'short' version, rating drops slightly to 310 L/hr
310lph E85-Compatible High Flow In-Tank Fuel Pump (Offset Inlet) | AEM
I didn't make it to the shop last night, but will get down there this morning to confirm the above will fit. Feeling pretty confident it will though.
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https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...0/#post4574649
I'm pretty sure this would be the correct AEM pump for the S2 housing. In the link above he bought the standard AEM pump that is the 'long' version, this is the 'short' version, rating drops slightly to 310 L/hr
310lph E85-Compatible High Flow In-Tank Fuel Pump (Offset Inlet) | AEM
I didn't make it to the shop last night, but will get down there this morning to confirm the above will fit. Feeling pretty confident it will though.
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The following users liked this post:
plus6g (03-02-2018)
02-07-2015, 01:43 PM
#153
Based on this post/pictures:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...0/#post4574649
I'm pretty sure this would be the correct AEM pump for the S2 housing. In the link above he bought the standard AEM pump that is the 'long' version, this is the 'short' version, rating drops slightly to 310 L/hr
310lph E85-Compatible High Flow In-Tank Fuel Pump (Offset Inlet) | AEM
I didn't make it to the shop last night, but will get down there this morning to confirm the above will fit. Feeling pretty confident it will though.
.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...0/#post4574649
I'm pretty sure this would be the correct AEM pump for the S2 housing. In the link above he bought the standard AEM pump that is the 'long' version, this is the 'short' version, rating drops slightly to 310 L/hr
310lph E85-Compatible High Flow In-Tank Fuel Pump (Offset Inlet) | AEM
I didn't make it to the shop last night, but will get down there this morning to confirm the above will fit. Feeling pretty confident it will though.
.
02-08-2015, 05:21 PM
#154
It appears to be a direct fit.
Still trying to get my head around the the S2 canister design, but initially my thought is that the S2 assembly may be better for a higher flowing pump than the S1 assembly in almost every regard.
The only thing I don't like is that the main filter appears to be a paper or synthetic element thats trapped inside a closed housing. The pump slides up into the center of the housing and engages the discharge at the top. The whole melt the bypass cover goes away. The bypass is a separate part that plugs into the filter housing with O-ring seals and a snap on cap that isn't coming off. It was a PITA to get off with tools.
A small diameter feed hose that goes to the siphon is located there and the flex hose also attaches there rather than to the pump like on the S1. Cutting and reattaching the flex hose goes away. Pump is PnP once you get the canister and housing apart. The bowl inlet/flap valve appears to be a good size with a good swing clearance to let fuel in. Not sure how it compares to the S1.
Will try to get some detail pics later and post it all up once I can spend more time evaluating it.
Still trying to get my head around the the S2 canister design, but initially my thought is that the S2 assembly may be better for a higher flowing pump than the S1 assembly in almost every regard.
The only thing I don't like is that the main filter appears to be a paper or synthetic element thats trapped inside a closed housing. The pump slides up into the center of the housing and engages the discharge at the top. The whole melt the bypass cover goes away. The bypass is a separate part that plugs into the filter housing with O-ring seals and a snap on cap that isn't coming off. It was a PITA to get off with tools.
A small diameter feed hose that goes to the siphon is located there and the flex hose also attaches there rather than to the pump like on the S1. Cutting and reattaching the flex hose goes away. Pump is PnP once you get the canister and housing apart. The bowl inlet/flap valve appears to be a good size with a good swing clearance to let fuel in. Not sure how it compares to the S1.
Will try to get some detail pics later and post it all up once I can spend more time evaluating it.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-08-2015 at 05:23 PM.
02-10-2015, 01:10 AM
#155
The Douchewurks DW65C also appears to be an S2 housing fitment; 260 LPH @ 60 psig
Fuel Pumps : DW65c Compact In-Tank Fuel Pump | DeatschWerks
Also the Aeromotive 325 Stealth pump; 275 LPH @ 60 psig
325 Stealth Fuel Pump - Aeromotive
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Fuel Pumps : DW65c Compact In-Tank Fuel Pump | DeatschWerks
Also the Aeromotive 325 Stealth pump; 275 LPH @ 60 psig
325 Stealth Fuel Pump - Aeromotive
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plus6g (03-02-2018)
02-10-2015, 06:45 PM
#157
I'm NA, don't see any need to. I was considering an electronic pump booster device, but after doing some research it appears that's likely not necessary even for E85.
Common applications for this particular pump are Nissan GTR (dual pumps), BRZ/FRS, etc. It has "65C" stenciled on it. The S2 pump/assembly is very similar to the pump assembly shown in this detailed review of the BRZ fuel system components (got to Post #3 for the fuel pump info):
BRZ Fuel System Component Walkthrough - NASIOC
It doesn't have the siphon assembly setup like the S2 RX8 one though. However, the bleed hose to the siphon is extremely small on the S2 assembly. I'd guess it's about 1.5mm/0.06" ID maybe, didn't actually measure it yet though.
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Common applications for this particular pump are Nissan GTR (dual pumps), BRZ/FRS, etc. It has "65C" stenciled on it. The S2 pump/assembly is very similar to the pump assembly shown in this detailed review of the BRZ fuel system components (got to Post #3 for the fuel pump info):
BRZ Fuel System Component Walkthrough - NASIOC
It doesn't have the siphon assembly setup like the S2 RX8 one though. However, the bleed hose to the siphon is extremely small on the S2 assembly. I'd guess it's about 1.5mm/0.06" ID maybe, didn't actually measure it yet though.
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Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-28-2015 at 01:24 PM.
02-28-2015, 01:13 PM
#158
I took a bunch of pictures before putting the S2 FP assembly back together. Maybe one day I'll be bored and post them somewhere. I still don't get how the siphon setup works. It was reconfigured from the S1 FP. I do think it's a much better FP assembly than the S1 and with modifications it will probably be a better high performance assembly too. The fuel pump assy in the link above is pretty close to the S2 pump, but it lacks the very small siphon tube piping, siphon cup, etc on the S2 model.
Gutting the outer part of the internal fuel filter, changing the pump discharge to be direct out the top plate like the S1 with an external PRV bypass back in thru the top cap, and a second pump on the RH side replacing the siphon pickup will likely resolve most issues.
1. Gutting the outer body of the internal filter will add total fuel volume in the cup
2. Repiping the pump discharge directly out the top cap will be a little work, but the internal discharge is part of the outer filter housing along with the siphon and internal PRV. So this is part of the fuel volume in the cup increase mentioned previously. An external PRV is not necessary otherwise since the S2 PRV dosn't need melting or stand any chance of blowing out/off like on the S1. It would allow running a lower fuel pressure for ID injectors etc. though.
3. The siphon inlet is extremely free flowing right into the cup, so even a low pressure pump with it's own cup on the RH side to replace the the siphon pickup wouldn't have any problem transfering fuel to the main pump side.
Just theory for now though .....
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Gutting the outer part of the internal fuel filter, changing the pump discharge to be direct out the top plate like the S1 with an external PRV bypass back in thru the top cap, and a second pump on the RH side replacing the siphon pickup will likely resolve most issues.
1. Gutting the outer body of the internal filter will add total fuel volume in the cup
2. Repiping the pump discharge directly out the top cap will be a little work, but the internal discharge is part of the outer filter housing along with the siphon and internal PRV. So this is part of the fuel volume in the cup increase mentioned previously. An external PRV is not necessary otherwise since the S2 PRV dosn't need melting or stand any chance of blowing out/off like on the S1. It would allow running a lower fuel pressure for ID injectors etc. though.
3. The siphon inlet is extremely free flowing right into the cup, so even a low pressure pump with it's own cup on the RH side to replace the the siphon pickup wouldn't have any problem transfering fuel to the main pump side.
Just theory for now though .....
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Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-28-2015 at 01:26 PM.
02-28-2015, 02:00 PM
#159
Good info team .
I'm still hoping that what I've done with the S1 assembly will do the job and that I will be able to provide a proven solution at some stage.
As it stands now ... I'm very happy with it's performance for street driving and windy roads under boost . Hope to get a decent test done on track within the next month .
X-ing fingers I don't have other issues that get in the way of testing it like last time.
I'm still hoping that what I've done with the S1 assembly will do the job and that I will be able to provide a proven solution at some stage.
As it stands now ... I'm very happy with it's performance for street driving and windy roads under boost . Hope to get a decent test done on track within the next month .
X-ing fingers I don't have other issues that get in the way of testing it like last time.
Last edited by Brettus; 02-28-2015 at 02:05 PM.
02-28-2015, 03:11 PM
#160
I'm looking at an external low pressure transfer lift pump now for the siphon side. My thinking is if I can mount a self priming external pump and repipe the siphon transfer tube up out/in through the lid and just leave the siphon pickup in place rather than a full-on internal pump assy.
Motor Components, LLC | Facet Purolator
May also try to reverse the main pump to the RH side and the siphon to the LH side to help balance out driver weight.
Motor Components, LLC | Facet Purolator
May also try to reverse the main pump to the RH side and the siphon to the LH side to help balance out driver weight.
07-29-2015, 05:39 AM
#161
Shortly after this threaded went dead above Douchewerks released a new higher flow 65C style pump that should drop into the S2 fuel pump housing; rated 295 LPH @ 60 psig
DW300c: 340 LPH Compact In-Tank Fuel Pump | Press Releases | News | DeatschWerks
DW300c: 340 LPH Compact In-Tank Fuel Pump | Press Releases | News | DeatschWerks
09-11-2015, 07:24 AM
#162
It appears to be a direct fit.
Still trying to get my head around the the S2 canister design, but initially my thought is that the S2 assembly may be better for a higher flowing pump than the S1 assembly in almost every regard.
The only thing I don't like is that the main filter appears to be a paper or synthetic element thats trapped inside a closed housing. The pump slides up into the center of the housing and engages the discharge at the top. The whole melt the bypass cover goes away. The bypass is a separate part that plugs into the filter housing with O-ring seals and a snap on cap that isn't coming off. It was a PITA to get off with tools.
A small diameter feed hose that goes to the siphon is located there and the flex hose also attaches there rather than to the pump like on the S1. Cutting and reattaching the flex hose goes away. Pump is PnP once you get the canister and housing apart. The bowl inlet/flap valve appears to be a good size with a good swing clearance to let fuel in. Not sure how it compares to the S1.
Will try to get some detail pics later and post it all up once I can spend more time evaluating it.
Still trying to get my head around the the S2 canister design, but initially my thought is that the S2 assembly may be better for a higher flowing pump than the S1 assembly in almost every regard.
The only thing I don't like is that the main filter appears to be a paper or synthetic element thats trapped inside a closed housing. The pump slides up into the center of the housing and engages the discharge at the top. The whole melt the bypass cover goes away. The bypass is a separate part that plugs into the filter housing with O-ring seals and a snap on cap that isn't coming off. It was a PITA to get off with tools.
A small diameter feed hose that goes to the siphon is located there and the flex hose also attaches there rather than to the pump like on the S1. Cutting and reattaching the flex hose goes away. Pump is PnP once you get the canister and housing apart. The bowl inlet/flap valve appears to be a good size with a good swing clearance to let fuel in. Not sure how it compares to the S1.
Will try to get some detail pics later and post it all up once I can spend more time evaluating it.
I was considering putting in a new OEM denso unit. But if the AEM is PnP it might be a better option.
09-12-2015, 12:39 AM
#163
Well hold on, because I'm shipping a new S2 pump to Deatschwerks tomorrow. They are going to test pressure/flow for the factory pump, then install their DW65C pump and do the same thing. Both will be tested at the regular 13.5 Volt setting and then also at the low speed 10 Volts setting. I will post the results on the forum.
03-09-2016, 02:49 PM
#165
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Bumping this for more KB Boost a Pump/MSD fuel booster talk.
Lately since going with E85 (93 and E85 mix to about E45) I am getting a fluctuating (bouncing really from 55-60psi) fuel pressure gauge and historically it had stayed rock solid at 60-63psi. I have a 5 year old BHR assembly with Walbro.
So, I am thinking the KB Boost a pump with the "special Mazda specs" might be the way to go.
re: Kenne Bell Boost A Pump - RX7Club.com
re: http://www.americanmuscle.com/msd-fu...t-install.html
Thoughts? Would I just tap into the exiting power and ground to the pump on the factory wiring harness?
Lately since going with E85 (93 and E85 mix to about E45) I am getting a fluctuating (bouncing really from 55-60psi) fuel pressure gauge and historically it had stayed rock solid at 60-63psi. I have a 5 year old BHR assembly with Walbro.
So, I am thinking the KB Boost a pump with the "special Mazda specs" might be the way to go.
re: Kenne Bell Boost A Pump - RX7Club.com
re: http://www.americanmuscle.com/msd-fu...t-install.html
Thoughts? Would I just tap into the exiting power and ground to the pump on the factory wiring harness?
03-10-2016, 08:51 AM
#166
I was actually looking into this as well. But when I saw the price I figured a bigger pump would be more cost effective. Is there a benefit to using a smaller pump with the boost-a-pump over a larger pump by itself?
03-10-2016, 09:22 AM
#167
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
The only problem I am finding with a larger pump is that it won't fit in the stock housing so that means setting up a different fuel system.
The 13.5V version of the boost a pump seems like the best option for me, I just don't know how long the Walbro GSS342 will stand up to E85. On other platforms it seems to be doing just fine though.
For you guys pushing the limits, I would probably consider the Walbro E8 pump
But it won't fit in a stock housing.
The 13.5V version of the boost a pump seems like the best option for me, I just don't know how long the Walbro GSS342 will stand up to E85. On other platforms it seems to be doing just fine though.
For you guys pushing the limits, I would probably consider the Walbro E8 pump
But it won't fit in a stock housing.
03-10-2016, 09:28 AM
#168
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
The S2 OEM pump with the better assembly and larger Denso pump along with the boost a pump might be the better option. Or the new aftermarket pumps, they are basically an S2 pump assembly but I'm not sure on the pump specs.
03-10-2016, 03:35 PM
#171
Remember there are 2 issues that cause this problem 
Fuel slosh and transfer, and inability of the pump to supply enough fuel for engine needs
I have yet to have issues with not enough fuel supply. A 350L/h pump is more than enough for fueling needs if you can keep it pumping.
From my point of view the issue is keeping the fuel contained so that it can supply the pump
I haven't seen anything work to date except a surge tank setup
The boost a pump will increase fuel flow...but won't help with the starvation issue at all...
Just my .2 cents
Fuel slosh and transfer, and inability of the pump to supply enough fuel for engine needs
I have yet to have issues with not enough fuel supply. A 350L/h pump is more than enough for fueling needs if you can keep it pumping.
From my point of view the issue is keeping the fuel contained so that it can supply the pump
I haven't seen anything work to date except a surge tank setup
The boost a pump will increase fuel flow...but won't help with the starvation issue at all...
Just my .2 cents
03-10-2016, 04:15 PM
#173
Dan is right re the sloshing ......... it seems there really isn't any way to make the stock assembly perform at high whp/low fuel levels in racetrack conditions.
03-10-2016, 07:46 PM
#175
SPOOLN8
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Bumping this for more KB Boost a Pump/MSD fuel booster talk.
Lately since going with E85 (93 and E85 mix to about E45) I am getting a fluctuating (bouncing really from 55-60psi) fuel pressure gauge and historically it had stayed rock solid at 60-63psi. I have a 5 year old BHR assembly with Walbro.
So, I am thinking the KB Boost a pump with the "special Mazda specs" might be the way to go.
re: Kenne Bell Boost A Pump - RX7Club.com
re: How to install an MSD Programmable Fuel Pump Voltage Booster on your Mustang | AmericanMuscle
Thoughts? Would I just tap into the exiting power and ground to the pump on the factory wiring harness?
Lately since going with E85 (93 and E85 mix to about E45) I am getting a fluctuating (bouncing really from 55-60psi) fuel pressure gauge and historically it had stayed rock solid at 60-63psi. I have a 5 year old BHR assembly with Walbro.
So, I am thinking the KB Boost a pump with the "special Mazda specs" might be the way to go.
re: Kenne Bell Boost A Pump - RX7Club.com
re: How to install an MSD Programmable Fuel Pump Voltage Booster on your Mustang | AmericanMuscle
Thoughts? Would I just tap into the exiting power and ground to the pump on the factory wiring harness?
All I know is that is doesn't have any effect of my AFR's so I've pretty much just chalked it up to being normal. I have an autometer mechanical fuel pressure gauge that is going on 5 years old now.