Ajax

here we go:

rotarygod

You definitely have a problem. Something is not opening alright. Gotta get that fixed. The secondaries appear to be open but the auxillary ports don't look like they are. They open with a little motor on the lower intake manifold.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Good, thanks, Ajax.
As you can see my AF is very smooth albet rich. You can also see why I think it is the secondarys not opening. The power loss is right at the opening point and the recovery is at the aux opening point.

RotaryGod, does that make sense? We know the car sat for well over a year, almost two. Probably got started once in awhile to go into the shop for the various recalls. Moved about 200 feet I guess each way. That in itself shpuldn't cause this sort of problem but add a few snow storms a couple of major rains and looking at the rust on my brake discs,,,,, you get the idea.

I could go dig into it but what for, let the dealer do it.

Ajax

6250 rpm.. that'd be when the aux ports open.

EDIT: I'd take that dyno to a dealer and let them look at it.
I wonder if they're stuck shut from sitting for so long.

zoom44

what it looks like to me is that the dynos rpm pick up was loosing the signal. the jaggedy graph looks just like several other 8 graphs that had that happen. i could be wrong we had troubles getting good signal from the plug on mine and another one the next night just quit because of it.

rotarygod

His power looks fine right up to 6250. That's where there's an issue. There are 2 possibilities with the auxillary ports. The first is that the little electric motor that turns them is bad or the electrical connection to it is. The other possibility was a common occurence on older 6 port engines that had sat a while or had never been driven hard and that is the auxillary port sleeves are carbon locked shut. I've had that happen to a car a bought used. The RX-8 isn't that old though so I don't know why that would be an issue. The first thing I'd do is check the little motor and the signal going to it.

zoom44

the graph goes funky at the tertiary port opening....


never mind i was reading it wrong :o its at the secondary

rotarygod

If it's at the secondary then I must be reading it wrong too. How do you figure? It sure looks like 6250 rpm where it drops off to me.

rotarygod

The reason it starts to recover a little at around 7500 and above is because at 7250 the variable intake valve opens which shortens the effective length of the intake manifold and tunes it for a higher rpm.

zoom44

sorry im making it all more confusing- i agree with you now that is at 6250. never mind what i said before. im tired and confusing my -ary's

Ajax

the funny thing is that I kept staring at this graph on the screen.. when i have the damn piece of paper sitting right here!

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Here is a comparison dyno graph...

Added the RPM scal alone the bottom, but I'm missing data. I remember them saying that the RPM pickup seemed to not work well on the RX8's.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

We agree then, the aux ports are not opening. Saves the dealer the trouble of looking or it gives him the problem that I know. Depends on attitude doesn't it.
Anyway he gets to try out my shifter, even if doesn't want to. You can't deny that it is there when you drive it. :D

So, I need to get this baseline so we can get down to the SC install. Looks like a whole new intake manifold is going to be needed. The lower piece stays though.
Getting real interesting with the electronics thingie.

I'll keep you posted and thank all of you for your help. It would always be my car. You know Christmas eve when you put the kids toys together. I'm the one who gets the toy with the part missing. Like the nut that holds the wheel on. Not kidding, that has happened. Good thing I have a shop and a lathe or my kid would've been real upset. I should remind him of that.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

I have faith that my toys will come with all the parts... Us old guys need that

Just make sure the SC comes those pesky AA batteries...

derwankel

Make him take you to see the new movie.

zoom44

you know i have only heard of 2 times when the tertiary ports were sticking- that Sport Compact test that never finished because of the stuck port and the laguna seca press event where a couple motors had stuck ports and popped. none of them were production line cars....

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I just droped it at Galpin Mazda. Had a lot of skeptics there, "how do you know that's what is wrong?" "all we can do is hook it up to the computer and see what it says" Along with other questions showing that the only thing they do know is to hook it up and see what the computer says. Like it's some sort of God, if it doesn't come up on a screen they don't believe it.

I think that dealer mechanics never learn anything but how to read a screen and take the printout to the parts window. Get what the partsman hands them and find out where it is and replace it. Who cares what was wrong as long as they put black box replacing black box all is well.

We shall see how they do. I have little confidence. If I had just gone in saying my car didn't seem like it was fast enough they would have done nothing but send me on my way. You only think there were two cars where aux did not open. Maybe there are thousands out there that no one has reported. If it wasn't for the dyno pull how would I know that the car was down on power. If I thought it was the dealer would not have found anything wrong. He would tell me all normal, they are all like that.

There is no way a person could know this problem exists unless he dynos it or has a freind with another 8 and races him. Or just drives it. He would then have a hell of a time getting the dealer to do anything. They are just not equiped to handle anything but standard repairs.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Get used to it...most of the mechanics at the dealerships don't have a clue. Thank god there are a few "rotorhead types" that really love the rotaries. The problem is finding one.

Anyway....forget about your stock HP and get the supercharger working :D

zoom44

more than 2 cars. just 2 times that i heard about. there were more than 2 cars that had it happen at the Press event. my point was i havent heard about it ona production car yet.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Now it starts. Just got the call from Galpin Mazda, Car is ready. They said the only thing it needed was the n flash. They also said that they will not do anything more for me. If I want more call Mazda NA or pay for more diagnostic work.

How much more can I do for you MAZDA??????????????
I go in and bring the dyno sheet, I tell them where to look.
I tell them why it is there. Why that is the logical place to look.
I think I was nice about it. I think I can sound well informed about engines.

How many complaints do they want.? The damn car came out with a power problem, they had to pay up for it. How can they be so slack about something they should be sensitive about.

Mazda, you couldn't possably have a better example from a customer.
Mazda, I just bought a new car from you, it has less then 1000 miles on it. I'm the wrong guy to be treating this way. You can't claim I'm wrong.

I don't even want to go pick it up, what for? It'll just make me mad.
You wouldn't like me when I'm mad.

In fact I'm not going to pick it up. I'll call Mazda NA first.
If that doesn't work I'll pick it up and fix it myself and yell from the roof tops about it.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Did you check the CAT....mine dyno'd 143 with the cat plugged...it looked very much like that......except it didn't have the spike at the end....

MassiveAttack

Are you going to tell MNAO that you're developing a supercharger kit for it?

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Dan, should I check the cat when it has 891 miles on it??

Don't you think Mazda already knows that I'm developing a supercharger for it?
They just don't know it's me, the guy with the problem. I know that the guy I'm dealing with has no knowlage of it and could care less. I don't know the name of the people who know me or I'd call them. Believe me it I get no solution this way I'll look them up.
Was that confusing? I didn't mean it to be.
I called Mazda NA and went through the normal channels as if I was just a guy off the street with a plain jane low performance model, having a door hinge problem.
Let's see the system work.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I went back and looked at the graphs...look different. Yours still climbs after 6K...mine flatlined there. I have a high RPM drop off on mine...after 7300 when the VDI opens. Have checked it and it does open, Might be ign related?? It also get really notchy there. They have been looking into it for 3 weeks now with no answers, They look at you like you have a third eye when you come in with a dyno :D

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Yes - it could be a collasping CAT from an earlier flooding issue before you got the car. Might have happened in the Port of entry fiasco...