Axial Flow Supercharger
10-09-2006, 02:52 PM
#4226
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Originally Posted by deppenma
RP when you get done with 7-stock I need to get in contact with you
I have come up with an idea that I perceive may work to control a higher pressure version of your AFSC.
There is a patent search on going right now to see if anyone else is using something similar in a similar way. Initial very broad searches have turned up something similar in industry for larger axial flow compressors but nothing as it pertains to the automotive industry.
Advantages of a higher boost profile in the lower RMP ranges while controlling upper rpm pressures to prevent over pressurizing the engine.
Then device was hinted at over in the S2ki AFSC forum by a fellow individual that is now handling my patent searches.
It was hinted at before we decided to pursue the possible device. So he may have let the cat out of the bag to early. 
I have come up with an idea that I perceive may work to control a higher pressure version of your AFSC.
There is a patent search on going right now to see if anyone else is using something similar in a similar way. Initial very broad searches have turned up something similar in industry for larger axial flow compressors but nothing as it pertains to the automotive industry.
Advantages of a higher boost profile in the lower RMP ranges while controlling upper rpm pressures to prevent over pressurizing the engine.
Then device was hinted at over in the S2ki AFSC forum by a fellow individual that is now handling my patent searches.
It was hinted at before we decided to pursue the possible device. So he may have let the cat out of the bag to early. 
10-09-2006, 03:25 PM
#4227
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nope 
good idea, did think of that; However I think that would that not require a major redesign of the compressor housing to allow those flow paths/controls.
My idea allows a single high pressure AFSC to be applied to a multiple number of vehicles regardless of max RPM and displacement (assuming the displacement of the engine is not so large the CFM @ specific pressure is larger then the AFSC can supply).
It also allows the compressor to be more efficient(mechanically; less power form the crank at a given pressure) when running pressures below its maximum out put as compared to a lower max boost compressor running at the same output pressure.
I am designing this device to keep along the lines of what RP has already created to keep prototyping times and cost down.
Main thing I am going to need is a compressor that is capable of producing 13psi at a max RPM 8K on my test mule (S2000). While I could prove the design on a lower max psi AFSC I want to make sure the device has enough fidelity and response time to maintain 8psi during VTEC Switch over. Desired boost profile based in a 13psi uncontrolled ASFC at 8K engine rpm would be at 100% throttle 7.5psi at 2.5k rpm and 8 at 3krpm with the device keeping boost at 8 psi there and above. This in an attempt to directly compete with the Turbo applications for the S2000 with most of those systems reaching full boost (8psi) around 3 to 3200RPM with this system having no boost lag and the reliability of a supercharger.
good idea, did think of that; However I think that would that not require a major redesign of the compressor housing to allow those flow paths/controls.
My idea allows a single high pressure AFSC to be applied to a multiple number of vehicles regardless of max RPM and displacement (assuming the displacement of the engine is not so large the CFM @ specific pressure is larger then the AFSC can supply).
It also allows the compressor to be more efficient(mechanically; less power form the crank at a given pressure) when running pressures below its maximum out put as compared to a lower max boost compressor running at the same output pressure.
I am designing this device to keep along the lines of what RP has already created to keep prototyping times and cost down.
Main thing I am going to need is a compressor that is capable of producing 13psi at a max RPM 8K on my test mule (S2000). While I could prove the design on a lower max psi AFSC I want to make sure the device has enough fidelity and response time to maintain 8psi during VTEC Switch over. Desired boost profile based in a 13psi uncontrolled ASFC at 8K engine rpm would be at 100% throttle 7.5psi at 2.5k rpm and 8 at 3krpm with the device keeping boost at 8 psi there and above. This in an attempt to directly compete with the Turbo applications for the S2000 with most of those systems reaching full boost (8psi) around 3 to 3200RPM with this system having no boost lag and the reliability of a supercharger.
Last edited by deppenma; 10-10-2006 at 08:26 AM.
10-09-2006, 03:35 PM
#4228
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The device would also be double fault tolerant to prevent any sort of over pressure during prototyping and this double failure protection would most likely carry over the final product if it does get into production.
10-18-2006, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
While I haven't seen it the only thing I can think of would be to bleed air out from an earlier stage and send the rest into a closed loop mode so you could vary pressure based on number of stages currently in use. I'm not even sure it could work but is it something along those lines?
10-19-2006, 01:28 AM
#4234
Any pics? Useless w/o em~
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Originally Posted by 8 Maniac
Cant wait to see how SS9 turns out... I expect someone going to SS9 to have a laptop with a wireless connection with continuously updated pictures or a live feed 
SS is gonna
10-19-2006, 01:40 AM
#4235
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Many have waited long enough for this year, SCs, TCs, TUNING!... man... The 8s are gonna fly.
________
WEB SHOWS
________
WEB SHOWS
Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 09:43 AM.
10-25-2006, 09:31 AM
#4236
Originally Posted by Renesis_8
Many have waited long enough for this year, SCs, TCs, TUNING!... man... The 8s are gonna fly.
10-25-2006, 05:05 PM
#4238
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by Brettus
Can anyone explain what is it about the AFSC that has you all so excited vs other types of SC or turbos ?
lightweight and compact
linear boost profile, which maintins ther characteristics of the stock power curve
it's different, and pretty damn cool.
it's efficient, much more so than existing solutions
I'm sure there are more.
10-25-2006, 05:21 PM
#4241
Power!!
Originally Posted by Brettus
Can anyone explain what is it about the AFSC that has you all so excited vs other types of SC or turbos ?
10-25-2006, 05:30 PM
#4242
The air still has to take a 90° turn when it leaves the compressor - not to mention all the other turns it makes to get into the motor. Any change in direction impinges on flow. However, all FI solutions have to deal with this to some degree.
Add to that the angle of the inlet - a jet engine takes air directly into the first compressor row, but the AX has a drive mechanism there, so It has to enter at an angle.
Add to that the angle of the inlet - a jet engine takes air directly into the first compressor row, but the AX has a drive mechanism there, so It has to enter at an angle.
10-25-2006, 06:30 PM
#4245
Power!!
Originally Posted by r0tor
the efficiency is in the compressor blades and their orientation... not which way the air flows
10-25-2006, 06:45 PM
#4246
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by orientation i meant successive stages where the pressure is raised in smaller steps by blades that are designed to raise that small step with the least amount of drag possible - thats where the design really differs from other compressors
in the gas turbine industry there are generally 2 setups for the burner arrangement on the discharge of the compressor section. One is a "can-annular" setup where the burners are located aound the discharge of the compressor and airflow is remained straight though to a turbine section... this is the air craft design. The other design is a "silo" design where the compressor discharge is directed 90 degrees up around the outside of a silo shell and then redirected 180 degrees back down the center of the silo and sent through the burners and then makes another 90 degree bend to the turbine section. It would seem the silo method would be very ineffecient, but when done correctly real world data says you lose practically nothing.
in the gas turbine industry there are generally 2 setups for the burner arrangement on the discharge of the compressor section. One is a "can-annular" setup where the burners are located aound the discharge of the compressor and airflow is remained straight though to a turbine section... this is the air craft design. The other design is a "silo" design where the compressor discharge is directed 90 degrees up around the outside of a silo shell and then redirected 180 degrees back down the center of the silo and sent through the burners and then makes another 90 degree bend to the turbine section. It would seem the silo method would be very ineffecient, but when done correctly real world data says you lose practically nothing.
10-26-2006, 12:20 AM
#4247
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Originally Posted by Brettus
I've been looking at the centrifugal supercharger & it provides linear boost also but I think it will heat the air more (perhaps) . So in that comparison the advantage would be that the need for an intercooler is gone - yes ?