timbo

Oh, I didn't say I necessarily endorsed the idea -- just that when the geeks at a company like BMW release information about something, it's worth adding to the mix. Anyway, here's the gear in good ol' Popular Science

belkjz

that is the stupidest thing i have ever seen. the numbers seem good but i would never own that. to superheat steam that hot you would have to be at a pretty high pressure. i can see it now... you get in an accident and the steam pipe under the floor board ruptures and you look down at your severed leg but at least your not bleeding to death cause its already cauterised, or your in an accident and steam fills the interior but you cant move cause your doors pressed up against your leg, although the worst is the thought of a family member being steamed like a lobster.
i apologize for the morbid pictures but that is not something that should be running throughout the body of a car.

guy321

MMMMMMM Lobster.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Fresh Maine Lobster...

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Compared to the already dangerous things going on in a motor vehicle already, I don't see why it is so stupid. You need to have ideas and innovate, else we wouldn't be where we are today.

MPG > HP

It's described on p.22 of the Mar06 Popular Science. They propose to capture and convert exhaust heat via twin circuits to two expanders delivering direct crankshaft assist via belt drives. No mention of safety issues, but looks like a possible step in the right direction, that is, if we're to perpetuate reliance on IC. Looks like the major makers are starting to take "oil peak" seriously, so are looking for efficiencies, especially since the inefficient 3rd world emerging economies can be counted on to suck up the downside bulk of the oil peak, before they wake up to the need to conserve petroleum resources for non-combustible uses. Which makes me wonder of RP -- Should your SC be expected to contribute equally well to a hydrogen fueled RE Hybrid, as well as the same motor running on conventional fuel? Given the current power numbers for the RE Hybrid, what sorts of improvements, both in hydrogen and gas fueled modes, might we see from your device? Curiouser and curiouser!

El Kabong

And I'm not so sure this new-fangled "gasoline" stuff should be allowed for use in motorcars. What if the carriage is involved in a prang-up and one of the supply lines ruptures and sprays the sinister stuff into the passenger compartment? Internal combustion becomes external! Think of the conflagration!

-Kabong

Sapphonica

Cool, someone is finally implementing at least part of my idea, although they've missed a few important details! A rotary makes even more heat at the exhaust, so this is especially poignant.

rotarygod

Go do a search for Bruce Crower and his 6 stroke project. That is an interesting use of steam. I find BMW's method to be a waste of complexity and weight.

Edit: Here it is:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...THISWEEKSISSUE

patrick_andraste

it takes more energy to create the hydrogen than you realise from using the hydrogen in a vehicle.

Alcohol is a mutch better alternative than hydrogen, but there is not enough corn in the world to make enough alcohol, and at current fuel prices it costs way too much to produce. Now if we used something with much more inherent energy stores that grows fast such as sugar cane and sugar beets etc. it may make a decent alternative. I would be much more inclined to burn alcohol (with a trace fuel to be able to see it burn) than ever run something like hydrogen which is extremly dangerous not so much by the flamability but rather by the transportation, delivery and storage of a highly compressed explosive.

the idea would be electric cars running on huge non chemical (think capacitor) storage mediums that are recharged with solar panels, geothermal and linear flow hydroelectric turbines.

globi

The BMW method is pretty complex, but it's at least a closed system.

And it's true a rotary engine due to its inefficiency and hotter exhaust gas would benefit from BMW's turbosteamer more than a conventional engine.

My question would why don't they use to turbosteamer to run a generator and store the energy in a battery instead of a boiler (which might explode). This would make the system more flexible and probably less dangerous.
Besides, you'd have enough electric energy on tap to drive an electric supercharger or a flywheel motor. For free.

Photic

Yeah they said the Wright brothers were crazy too, and look how their contraption turned out.

Photic

I was reading something about gasoline getting mixtures getting more "green" with alcohol and they are on the rise at a great rate. I wish I could find it, there was an article on cnn or physorg about genetically engineered corn which contained more sugar in it and could be produced with minimal resources that they were going to use for specifically for fuel, the company doing it is on the rise and says they should be ready in 6-10 years if my memory serves me correctly.

There are also a lot of unused sugar fields in Hawaii. Their sugar export has gone bankrupt and they no longer have any active mills.

I posted a link in another thread (and I think mentioned it in this thread which is an abyss where you'll spend a long time searching for what was said ) about how you can harvest hydrogen from algae.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology...,54456,00.html

patrick_andraste

in the midwest you can buy gasohol, 80% alcohol, 20% gasoline at pumps.
out here on the left coast no such luck. I can by ethanol and methanol at Nelson Petoleum in 5 gallon/55 gallon drums, but it is very expensive, as in true cost, not gummint subsidised.

of course I am willing to pay $5+ a gallon for automotive fuel, if it was of reliable quality, I currently am spending $10.09 per gallon for what I run in my motorcycles and I have to drive 20 miles to get it, transport it, and essentially fuel up only at home.

BaronVonBigmeat

As long as we're derailing about waste heat recovery, here is yet another method:

http://www.powerchips.gi/



IF this pans out, it would probably be a far better solution than the BMW turbosteamer or even the Crower engine. Just wrap these around your exhaust and radiator and have them charge a battery. Have a small rotary providing power from gasoline, and an electric motor for converting otherwise wasted heat into low end grunt.

timbo

Boy, I started quite a tangent here -- just another on the path tracking RP's progress

Reminds me of an airline analyst I heard a while back, who was lamenting the fact that in aggregate, all the world's airlines are seriously bankrupt. He said something like "if we'd have know this was going to happen back then, you would have gone out and shot Orville and Wilbur down!!"

RG, I like the Crower 6 cycle concept. However, the (sad) reality is most innovation is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Ford got behind the Sarich orbital engine concept 30 years ago, but it's still languishing. Mazda is really the only company that has stayed with a 'different' approach, but the challenge is how to make the rotary more powerful and efficient, so perhaps developments like axial flow s/c and closed system co-generative power might be key to that....which sorta brings us ...back...on...topic

Japan8

Hmm... improved exhaust ports + direct injection + Axial Flow S/C = ?

mike1324a

Hmmmm..... I think Japan8 is onto something. I really like the sound of that. Do you hear that mazda, get busy!

Beodude123

A DIG engine for a rotary should help the low end a little bit, and if they kept the other technologies (phased injectors and multiple intake lengths) it would keep the flat torque curve.



I was just wondering if you could use water injection on the Axial Flow? I know that you can't really use them on centrifugals, and this seems more like that than a screw or roots. I wouldn't use it if I got one, but it could be a good way to get a little more power and detonation resistance.

globi

Compressor type has no relevance as far as water injection is concerned.

drakkhen

194 pages over almost 2 years and no moderator has locked this thread yet?

Unreal.

timbo

Why would a mod need to lock it -- there's nothing illegal, offensive or immoral going on

Moostafa29

5 posts and he owns the forum.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Ya, the two I've seen were negative towards me! I wonder what the other three were about.

If it's about his wife, I'm not seeing her anymore.

Moostafa29

Moostafa will take her off your hands. Whoops, that should have been a pm.