Another Top Mount Setup
02-01-2011, 05:17 PM
#326
I bought a car, decided there were specific things about it I didn't like and set on changing those things.
I did that by breaking stuff.
Then, I worked backwards to understand every process that went into making the part break and making the part not break.
I am a musician, not a scientist.
Tuning is exactly like music.
Bach didn't sit down with a theory book and harmonize chorale preludes using the "rules". What he did became the rules.
We extrapolate the rules from the music, not the other way around.
And sometimes - in fact every time - when the music is extraordinary, it is because it lives outside the rules yet somehow still conforms to our concept of order.
BTW - Here is a hint for that MAF curve:
Do you know why the bottom most value on the MAF scale can't be altered? Do you think that only applies to the bottom?
Why do you think the ends of the MAF curve are related? Do you think it is just a look-up table?
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 02-01-2011 at 05:26 PM.
02-01-2011, 07:03 PM
#327
Anyway - I have heard you talk about the above before but did not fully understand what you were saying . Also: I have not seen negative impacts from not doing it that way so didn't bother changing anything .
Perhaps you could explain how this works again here for the benefit of those watching .
Are you saying that the two end values ( IE 0.86v , 1.9461g/s and 4.69v , 365.211g/s ) should be left unchanged ?
Last edited by Brettus; 02-01-2011 at 07:10 PM.
02-02-2011, 04:33 AM
#331
Must say that I'm disappointed when it comes to knowledgeable people sharing their knowledge in this forum and business. Coming from the audio forums you can see how people with 40years of experience sharing, explaining and give real suggestions how to solve a problem, and what might caused it. Still they make a living. See for example http://linkwitzlab.com/filters.htm This is not knowledge that comes easily.
Being egoistic is one thing, being rude is another. And it is possible to be honest and say that "I dont want to share that." But being straight forward, honest and polite seems to be a very difficult combination.
02-02-2011, 11:10 AM
#333
Coming from the audio forums you can see how people with 40years of experience sharing, explaining and give real suggestions how to solve a problem, and what might caused it. Still they make a living. See for example http://linkwitzlab.com/filters.htm This is not knowledge that comes easily.
02-02-2011, 04:39 PM
#339
Londons Yellow Peril
arg... an interesting thread somewhat derailed by my question! Apologies.
But its a subject that really interests me, as I am fascinated by the little extras that can be done.
If nothing else I have learned that the 5v MAF sensor is only set up to 4.69 volts at 365g/s
(I hope I at least learned that right)
Anyone know WHY the MAF sensor runs out below its peak voltage and why the full range isnt used? I believe all common MAF systems are 5 volt systems, so do individual manufacturers just use up the voltage etc they require for that usage?
But its a subject that really interests me, as I am fascinated by the little extras that can be done.
If nothing else I have learned that the 5v MAF sensor is only set up to 4.69 volts at 365g/s
(I hope I at least learned that right)
Anyone know WHY the MAF sensor runs out below its peak voltage and why the full range isnt used? I believe all common MAF systems are 5 volt systems, so do individual manufacturers just use up the voltage etc they require for that usage?
Last edited by california style; 02-02-2011 at 04:43 PM.
02-02-2011, 11:09 PM
#340
arg... an interesting thread somewhat derailed by my question! Apologies.
But its a subject that really interests me, as I am fascinated by the little extras that can be done.
If nothing else I have learned that the 5v MAF sensor is only set up to 4.69 volts at 365g/s
(I hope I at least learned that right)
Anyone know WHY the MAF sensor runs out below its peak voltage and why the full range isnt used? I believe all common MAF systems are 5 volt systems, so do individual manufacturers just use up the voltage etc they require for that usage?
But its a subject that really interests me, as I am fascinated by the little extras that can be done.
If nothing else I have learned that the 5v MAF sensor is only set up to 4.69 volts at 365g/s
(I hope I at least learned that right)
Anyone know WHY the MAF sensor runs out below its peak voltage and why the full range isnt used? I believe all common MAF systems are 5 volt systems, so do individual manufacturers just use up the voltage etc they require for that usage?
02-03-2011, 11:36 AM
#341
And I thought all you had to do to run the maf curve out to 5volts was just to change last value to 5 (in the ATR software anyways) ... then just run the horizontal interpolation to smooth out the curve ...
Last edited by wcs; 02-03-2011 at 11:38 AM.
02-03-2011, 02:35 PM
#345
I do remember
First edit the value using the direct edit option
Use the H key to Interpolate horizontal the maf voltage
Your horizontal selection should be say cells from 4.06v to the 5v
You'll notice that the stock numbers are not that smooth, they decrease in value as you increment up to 4.69 volts.
I believe you want to see it nice a smooth .... something like .12v per cell would be nice I think.
Then figure out mathematically what you top maf value should be ... like 430 or 440
Then grab the maf airflow from your top value back down to 4.06 volts and do another horizontal interpolation.
First edit the value using the direct edit option
Use the H key to Interpolate horizontal the maf voltage
Your horizontal selection should be say cells from 4.06v to the 5v
You'll notice that the stock numbers are not that smooth, they decrease in value as you increment up to 4.69 volts.
I believe you want to see it nice a smooth .... something like .12v per cell would be nice I think.
Then figure out mathematically what you top maf value should be ... like 430 or 440
Then grab the maf airflow from your top value back down to 4.06 volts and do another horizontal interpolation.
Last edited by wcs; 02-03-2011 at 02:42 PM.
02-03-2011, 03:00 PM
#346
Some interesting Trivia .....
In amongst al the BS from the last few days I discovered that the OEM maf scale has five distinct regions of varying scale .
first setting only - 0.12v increment 0.86v
0.04v increments to 1.41v
0.08v increments to 2.42v
0.12v increments to 4.41v
0.08v increments to 4.57v
0.04v increments to 4.69v
So Mazda obviously wanted better resolution down low . The reason for the resolution change up top is less obvious given that an NA engine would never get even remotely close to those numbers .
In amongst al the BS from the last few days I discovered that the OEM maf scale has five distinct regions of varying scale .
first setting only - 0.12v increment 0.86v
0.04v increments to 1.41v
0.08v increments to 2.42v
0.12v increments to 4.41v
0.08v increments to 4.57v
0.04v increments to 4.69v
So Mazda obviously wanted better resolution down low . The reason for the resolution change up top is less obvious given that an NA engine would never get even remotely close to those numbers .
Last edited by Brettus; 02-03-2011 at 03:10 PM.
02-03-2011, 03:28 PM
#347
Of course, had you been paying attention, you would have known this from the discussion on the 5 distinct load areas used for LTFT.
Now, switch g/sec expected for volts and you will be on the right track.
Almost. You don't want a straight line and the top value has a relationship to the grouped areas (referenced above).
BTW - if you want some data for comparison, look at the MAF scaling for the STi. (It uses the same MAF as the RX-8.)
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 02-03-2011 at 03:37 PM.
02-03-2011, 03:39 PM
#348
The way I worked out how to deal with the LTFT load areas was very different and just shows that you can approach the same problem from different angles .
BTW - this way is better than the way I did it but remember I am mostly self taught on this stuff .