20B must go on
10-25-2008, 09:46 PM
#104
Unregistered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
moon, my answer got lost in my quick pre-post editing. fyi, about your LIM offer, my answer's an enthusiastic yes. i had no idea of such welding complications, but i didn't plan on using that intake for a long time anyway. there are just other things i need to finish before getting the measurements you need--mostly mounting the engine. but before that, i'd like to finish the wires & ignition stuff because engine is already half-off the car and i received the m&w stuff already. i stopped just because it was way too cold this morning to work in the garage.
about clearance, good news is that my secondary fuel rail will be secured onto the UIM and my primary rail will be secured to the engine block. so even if i build everything with the current LIM, it shouldn't affect any potential clearance issues with the new LIM.
will pm you when the engine's mounted with the measurements & photos.
btw, do you recommend any specific alloy type and thickness for an aluminum plate purchase? i just need it to make misc brackets/tanks and such--for ignition box mounting, e-water pump mounting, radiator overflow tanks, etc.
about clearance, good news is that my secondary fuel rail will be secured onto the UIM and my primary rail will be secured to the engine block. so even if i build everything with the current LIM, it shouldn't affect any potential clearance issues with the new LIM.
will pm you when the engine's mounted with the measurements & photos.
btw, do you recommend any specific alloy type and thickness for an aluminum plate purchase? i just need it to make misc brackets/tanks and such--for ignition box mounting, e-water pump mounting, radiator overflow tanks, etc.
10-25-2008, 09:51 PM
#105
Unregistered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
od, i'm sure you already know, but we were talking about return style system. i think stock rx8 uses return-less system where only fuel vapor comes back, condense on the evap, then returned back to the fuel tank.
this also reminds me. i thought i read somewhere today that rx8 ecu controls the oem rx8 fuel pump to avoid flooding the engine. inline pump that's always on may be a bad idea unless you can reroute the excess fuel somehow. that's probably reason why mazsport upgrade is killing the engine... i don't know any details of how ecu modulates the oem rx8 pump, but unless it's only at the fuel rail pressure, any other replacement pump could slowly flood the engine.
this also reminds me. i thought i read somewhere today that rx8 ecu controls the oem rx8 fuel pump to avoid flooding the engine. inline pump that's always on may be a bad idea unless you can reroute the excess fuel somehow. that's probably reason why mazsport upgrade is killing the engine... i don't know any details of how ecu modulates the oem rx8 pump, but unless it's only at the fuel rail pressure, any other replacement pump could slowly flood the engine.
10-25-2008, 10:02 PM
#106
SR Dubbed Rx8
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jacksonville FL.
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i just setup my return line for my fuel system to today ill pm the details of how i did it to you. as for the fuel pump i havent tried to power everything up yet to see how it works without the stock ecu. im going with a aeromotive inline pump.
10-25-2008, 10:04 PM
#107
Unregistered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wait before you do that, you should read some a1000 reviews on rx7club.com. they all say it's ridiculously loud. i think your goal was a daily driver, so i thought you may be interested to find out.
here's the link:
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=369587
here's the link:
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=369587
Last edited by stickmantijuana; 10-25-2008 at 10:14 PM.
10-25-2008, 10:12 PM
#108
SR Dubbed Rx8
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jacksonville FL.
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
will do but im probably going to have it it the trunk bevause thats the only place it will fit. from what ive been told though even though it is big and loud its the best high performance pump for reliability and its rebuild able . the only other pump i have considered is the pump that vortech supplies with its superchargers. but i will try to get you some pics as well of my fuel line setup , im also going to still be using the factory evap tank.
10-25-2008, 10:16 PM
#109
Unregistered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i guess evap tank would be to cool down the fuel little bit?
some pics would be great when you get a chance. i like joel's idea so far. it seems the easiest and it makes sense to me.
some pics would be great when you get a chance. i like joel's idea so far. it seems the easiest and it makes sense to me.
10-25-2008, 10:39 PM
#110
All your talk about the fuel pump...don't forget you need to get the fuel from the passenger side of the tank to the drivers side...otherwise you will have only a 1/2 tank in reality......so you either need to keep the OEM venturi system intact...or run a transfer pump to get the fuel over to the tank with the main pump.
You also need to keep the OEM fuel level system intact so you have a working fuel guage
Track driving will mean you want a surge tank setup..or something that will ensure you have fuel in high G turns.....
You also need to keep the OEM fuel level system intact so you have a working fuel guage
Track driving will mean you want a surge tank setup..or something that will ensure you have fuel in high G turns.....
10-25-2008, 10:43 PM
#111
no no no... you do have to worry about that. Thats why my set up is outside the tank. I just took my OEM pump out. Everything else tays the same... It has to or iyt wont work properly. Ill try to take pics and show you. I wont be taking the set up out for now though so there is not that much I can show you from the outside....
Its very simple, so simple I did it... hahaha you will see..
Its very simple, so simple I did it... hahaha you will see..
10-25-2008, 11:01 PM
#115
Unregistered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think everything's been addressed by joel and moon. it's basically a stock system with inline external pump + true return. return line will be one oem line. and the other oem line will be the breather line.
i think the following should sum up joel's guide to true return system conversion for rx8's.
1. take out oem fuel pump
2. mount two bosch 044's (or some big pump) somewhere
3. route hose from plastic oem fuel unit to first 044
4. route another suction tube to the second 044
5. check valve in front of the second 044 to prevent backflow (second one will only come online when there's boost)
6. Y-two lines into one AN-10 line
7. send AN-10 to the rails
8. split with Y
9. connect to two fuel rails
10. aeromotive a1000 fuel pressure regulator
11. return fuel with the oem purge line through the evap
12. oem fuel line will be connected to the intake tube with some catch-can in between.
i think the following should sum up joel's guide to true return system conversion for rx8's.
1. take out oem fuel pump
2. mount two bosch 044's (or some big pump) somewhere
3. route hose from plastic oem fuel unit to first 044
4. route another suction tube to the second 044
5. check valve in front of the second 044 to prevent backflow (second one will only come online when there's boost)
6. Y-two lines into one AN-10 line
7. send AN-10 to the rails
8. split with Y
9. connect to two fuel rails
10. aeromotive a1000 fuel pressure regulator
11. return fuel with the oem purge line through the evap
12. oem fuel line will be connected to the intake tube with some catch-can in between.
10-25-2008, 11:04 PM
#117
i think everything's been addressed by joel and moon. it's basically a stock system with inline external pump + true return. return line will be one oem line. and the other oem line will be the breather line.
i think the following should sum up joel's guide to true return system conversion for rx8's.
1. take out oem fuel pump
2. mount two bosch 044's (or some big pump) somewhere
3. route hose from plastic oem fuel unit to first 044
4. route another suction tube to the second 044
5. check valve in front of the second 044 to prevent backflow (second one will only come online when there's boost)
6. Y-two lines
7. send AN-10 to the rails
8. split again with Y
9. connect to two fuel rails
10. aeromotive a1000 fuel pressure regulator
11. return fuel with the oem purge line through the evap
12. oem fuel line will be connected to the intake tube with some catch-can in between.
i think the following should sum up joel's guide to true return system conversion for rx8's.
1. take out oem fuel pump
2. mount two bosch 044's (or some big pump) somewhere
3. route hose from plastic oem fuel unit to first 044
4. route another suction tube to the second 044
5. check valve in front of the second 044 to prevent backflow (second one will only come online when there's boost)
6. Y-two lines
7. send AN-10 to the rails
8. split again with Y
9. connect to two fuel rails
10. aeromotive a1000 fuel pressure regulator
11. return fuel with the oem purge line through the evap
12. oem fuel line will be connected to the intake tube with some catch-can in between.
10-25-2008, 11:06 PM
#118
Unregistered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i guess joel's guide to one 044 conversion for all 2rotor people would be:
1. take out oem fuel pump
2. mount 044 somewhere (moon recommends directly below the driver-side passenger seat to minimize lines)
3. route hose from plastic oem fuel unit to the pump
4. send ss-braided line to the front
5. connect to oem fuel rail
6. connect the other end of the rail to fuel pressure regulator (FPR)
7. return from FPR using the evap line
8. use the stock fuel line as breather line (connect to the intake pipe behind the filter)
1. take out oem fuel pump
2. mount 044 somewhere (moon recommends directly below the driver-side passenger seat to minimize lines)
3. route hose from plastic oem fuel unit to the pump
4. send ss-braided line to the front
5. connect to oem fuel rail
6. connect the other end of the rail to fuel pressure regulator (FPR)
7. return from FPR using the evap line
8. use the stock fuel line as breather line (connect to the intake pipe behind the filter)
10-25-2008, 11:07 PM
#119
I know that unless you address the fuel transfer issue you will have a problem on the track if you choose to go there. You also have to watch the second pump running dry when the fuel is below 1/4 tank...
If you aren;t going to track the car you will likely be OK
Just want you thinking about this in your design so you don;t have to re-do it later like I did
If you aren;t going to track the car you will likely be OK
Just want you thinking about this in your design so you don;t have to re-do it later like I did
10-26-2008, 06:26 AM
#120
Mod/Organizer of DGRRX
i think everything's been addressed by joel and moon. it's basically a stock system with inline external pump + true return. return line will be one oem line. and the other oem line will be the breather line.
i think the following should sum up joel's guide to true return system conversion for rx8's.
1. take out oem fuel pump
2. mount two bosch 044's (or some big pump) somewhere
3. route hose from plastic oem fuel unit to first 044
4. route another suction tube to the second 044
5. check valve in front of the second 044 to prevent backflow (second one will only come online when there's boost)
6. Y-two lines into one AN-10 line
7. send AN-10 to the rails
8. split with Y
9. connect to two fuel rails
10. aeromotive a1000 fuel pressure regulator
11. return fuel with the oem purge line through the evap
12. oem fuel line will be connected to the intake tube with some catch-can in between.
i think the following should sum up joel's guide to true return system conversion for rx8's.
1. take out oem fuel pump
2. mount two bosch 044's (or some big pump) somewhere
3. route hose from plastic oem fuel unit to first 044
4. route another suction tube to the second 044
5. check valve in front of the second 044 to prevent backflow (second one will only come online when there's boost)
6. Y-two lines into one AN-10 line
7. send AN-10 to the rails
8. split with Y
9. connect to two fuel rails
10. aeromotive a1000 fuel pressure regulator
11. return fuel with the oem purge line through the evap
12. oem fuel line will be connected to the intake tube with some catch-can in between.
10-26-2008, 08:43 AM
#121
Unregistered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
right now, i'd have tears of joy if i can make 10hp 
hopefully after the winter, 500whp at low boost. then i'll increase it gradually until she blows in california. then i may do 3 rotor NA or try out the bigger displacement rotors if they ever become available.
scott was very mysterious about all components, so i have NO clue what injectors i have. even when i posted the gt42r turbo pic with either the serial # or p/n before on the forum, he immediately had asked me to take it down, photoshopped out the label, then had me relist it on the forum. his explanation at the time was that he wanted to keep the component list a "secret". i have no clue why. maybe he stole the turbo from someone and didn't want him to ID it. feel free to check out my turbo pic that was posted on my prev thread. all labels had been blurred out using photoshop.
hopefully after the winter, 500whp at low boost. then i'll increase it gradually until she blows in california. then i may do 3 rotor NA or try out the bigger displacement rotors if they ever become available.
scott was very mysterious about all components, so i have NO clue what injectors i have. even when i posted the gt42r turbo pic with either the serial # or p/n before on the forum, he immediately had asked me to take it down, photoshopped out the label, then had me relist it on the forum. his explanation at the time was that he wanted to keep the component list a "secret". i have no clue why. maybe he stole the turbo from someone and didn't want him to ID it. feel free to check out my turbo pic that was posted on my prev thread. all labels had been blurred out using photoshop.
10-26-2008, 09:39 AM
#122
SR Dubbed Rx8
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jacksonville FL.
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my retuen system is very simple. i went from the outlet of my fpr and ran a line all the way back to the filler neck routing the lines in the empty clips beisde the stcok lines. i marine texed 1/8" npt nipple to the top of the filler neck right beside the evap line. as for the feed line i have cut my stock line mid car and shot it over the the pass. side then to the fire wall. i was not aware of all the weirdness inside the tank. i was told that you could leave the stock pump in the tank and just hook up a inline pump to the line and i would be ok but i guess thats not the case?im interested to see how angel did his. as for a sending unit if you can get a ohm reading at empty and full you can just run a autometer gauge like im doing. i just dont know what the ohm load is.
10-26-2008, 09:45 AM
#123
whines all the way home
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Towson/Baltimore, MD
Posts: 7,402
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
scott was very mysterious about all components, so i have NO clue what injectors i have. even when i posted the gt42r turbo pic with either the serial # or p/n before on the forum, he immediately had asked me to take it down, photoshopped out the label, then had me relist it on the forum. his explanation at the time was that he wanted to keep the component list a "secret". i have no clue why. maybe he stole the turbo from someone and didn't want him to ID it. feel free to check out my turbo pic that was posted on my prev thread. all labels had been blurred out using photoshop
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dude **** that,,, the best builders on here have no problem sharing thier knowledge and tricks becuase they're confident in thier owns skills enough to know that not too many people can replicate it...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dude **** that,,, the best builders on here have no problem sharing thier knowledge and tricks becuase they're confident in thier owns skills enough to know that not too many people can replicate it...
10-26-2008, 09:50 AM
#124
are you going to use a water meth system?--rotorys love a water meth system
Also with the angle of the oem radiator etc--we have found using a small secondary radiator mounted off the front bumper support to have significant affect on cooling.
I know you are not using the oem radiator but i though the angle may end up being approx the same.
with the shape of the nose/air cavity and angle of the radiator i have found that a "swirl" affect is happening in the top 1/3 portion of the rad.
even if you fill the front with your intercooler you can still horizontally mount a secondary on the bellypan.
Thanks for the fuel pump info
Dan I think the siphon affect is still there?
Oldragger
Also with the angle of the oem radiator etc--we have found using a small secondary radiator mounted off the front bumper support to have significant affect on cooling.
I know you are not using the oem radiator but i though the angle may end up being approx the same.
with the shape of the nose/air cavity and angle of the radiator i have found that a "swirl" affect is happening in the top 1/3 portion of the rad.
even if you fill the front with your intercooler you can still horizontally mount a secondary on the bellypan.
Thanks for the fuel pump info
Dan I think the siphon affect is still there?
Oldragger
10-26-2008, 10:34 AM
#125
I had over heating problems... They where gone by changing my cooling fan.. By the way I do believe you are going to have cooling problems because of your turbo placement...