Re-Flasher Shootout.........
03-26-2008, 02:39 PM
#176
Yeah, it did turn into a pissing contest. (As all things do around here.)
Synopsis:
Everyone wants something different.
Everyone needs to look out for themselves.
Everyone likes to have a hand in the process.
I'm sure in the near future we will have more useful information at our disposal.
At the moment, there are only limited options for the uninitiated and the purveyors of future options are vying for market position now to mitigate the effect of the currently shipping system.
This has led to some very interesting parsing of the data stream on all sides and hasn't really helped the user that just wishes to have the best option available.
Synopsis:
Everyone wants something different.
Everyone needs to look out for themselves.
Everyone likes to have a hand in the process.
I'm sure in the near future we will have more useful information at our disposal.
At the moment, there are only limited options for the uninitiated and the purveyors of future options are vying for market position now to mitigate the effect of the currently shipping system.
This has led to some very interesting parsing of the data stream on all sides and hasn't really helped the user that just wishes to have the best option available.
03-27-2008, 01:40 AM
#177
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Well if you read through all the posts there were quite a bit of information that could be gained. It just wasn't served in one nice silver platter post.
As a total car newbie i got the following impression:
EFIDude delivers a product and they encourage end users to play with their own cars to find their own tune.
AP comes with different setups where at least one will work wonders on your car.
EFIDude delivers a cheaper product both money and look'n'feel wise.
AP seems to be delivering a more complete product with a user interface.
I also saw one post where there were some price per horsepower comparison where the EFIDude was the winner since it claimed the same hp gain for less money.
A big however is coming up on that one though: If you are encouraged to play with your own tune you must also be prepared to pop your own engine. The AP is provided with support from MM whom we all know has tuned one or two cars before ;-) I never understood what level of support for tuning EFIDude offered. However, if EFIDude encourages people to tune on their own then the tech support will fail since they cannot know just every crazy idea that has flown into the random end users head.
As a total car newbie i got the following impression:
EFIDude delivers a product and they encourage end users to play with their own cars to find their own tune.
AP comes with different setups where at least one will work wonders on your car.
EFIDude delivers a cheaper product both money and look'n'feel wise.
AP seems to be delivering a more complete product with a user interface.
I also saw one post where there were some price per horsepower comparison where the EFIDude was the winner since it claimed the same hp gain for less money.
A big however is coming up on that one though: If you are encouraged to play with your own tune you must also be prepared to pop your own engine. The AP is provided with support from MM whom we all know has tuned one or two cars before ;-) I never understood what level of support for tuning EFIDude offered. However, if EFIDude encourages people to tune on their own then the tech support will fail since they cannot know just every crazy idea that has flown into the random end users head.
03-27-2008, 01:41 AM
#178
Yeah, it did turn into a pissing contest. (As all things do around here.)
Synopsis:
Everyone wants something different.
Everyone needs to look out for themselves.
Everyone likes to have a hand in the process.
I'm sure in the near future we will have more useful information at our disposal.
At the moment, there are only limited options for the uninitiated and the purveyors of future options are vying for market position now to mitigate the effect of the currently shipping system.
This has led to some very interesting parsing of the data stream on all sides and hasn't really helped the user that just wishes to have the best option available.
Synopsis:
Everyone wants something different.
Everyone needs to look out for themselves.
Everyone likes to have a hand in the process.
I'm sure in the near future we will have more useful information at our disposal.
At the moment, there are only limited options for the uninitiated and the purveyors of future options are vying for market position now to mitigate the effect of the currently shipping system.
This has led to some very interesting parsing of the data stream on all sides and hasn't really helped the user that just wishes to have the best option available.
Hymee and EFIDude will be catering to the world market.
Cobb has not demonstrated this commitment and even if it has, they are no closer than Hymee or EFIDude to shipping a world product. Actually, Cobb may be more behind, because of their methodology. Hymee's and EFIDude's, can be further ahead in this aspect because their pro-tuner functionality is PC software based and their hardware will work with all RX-8s.
Furthermore, arguably Cobb has not made a "tuner product" for the common RX-8 enthusiast...
...it is more like a super scanguage II, that needs the tuning functionality to be handled by a Pro-tuner and makes use of propertiary and locked maps. It one likes the other colorful and "neat gizmo" features or just information than a "super duper scanguage II" type device might just be the ticket.
The Hymee and EFIDude products will be for the entire RX-8 community (in concept, design, and/or thinking of the creators) and give the common RX-8 enthusiast the option to tune his car by himself, collaborate with others about tuning choices, or have a Pro-Tuner do it. While the Cobb can do some of this, the method and thinking appears different and more restrictive.
Last edited by sosonic; 03-27-2008 at 01:45 AM.
03-27-2008, 01:53 AM
#179
1) The AccessPORT will have a user-operable software interface in the near-term by way of the AccessTUNER RACE software.
Getting the device out there with professionally tuned calibrations first was a priority so that the market wouldn't be saturated with a heap of hit-or-miss user-generated calibrations.
Really, the "RACE" and "PRO" versions are only different in the licensing, not the functionality, so release of the "RACE" version is largely timed by the readiness of the tuner network to support it.
2) "World support" is more a matter of getting hold of "world PCMs" to verify functionality. Europe will be supported in the near-term as a European PCM is on the way to Cobb via the generosity of a European forum member. Its just that simple.
Asian support will soon follow.
It isn't really a matter of what Cobb will be willing to do, but rather what they have access to via support from their dealer network.
The A/T support is a good example of that. Had they not received pressure to develop the A/T application, it wouldn't have happened as quickly since they depend on the feedback and requests of their PRO tuner network.
They are only as "restrictive" as their network desires.
Getting the device out there with professionally tuned calibrations first was a priority so that the market wouldn't be saturated with a heap of hit-or-miss user-generated calibrations.
Really, the "RACE" and "PRO" versions are only different in the licensing, not the functionality, so release of the "RACE" version is largely timed by the readiness of the tuner network to support it.
2) "World support" is more a matter of getting hold of "world PCMs" to verify functionality. Europe will be supported in the near-term as a European PCM is on the way to Cobb via the generosity of a European forum member. Its just that simple.
Asian support will soon follow.
It isn't really a matter of what Cobb will be willing to do, but rather what they have access to via support from their dealer network.
The A/T support is a good example of that. Had they not received pressure to develop the A/T application, it wouldn't have happened as quickly since they depend on the feedback and requests of their PRO tuner network.
They are only as "restrictive" as their network desires.
03-27-2008, 11:58 AM
#180
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Actually, the Cobb AP is a US domestic option, that is only available in the U.S. So it is not an option for the rest of the markets/world.
Hymee and EFIDude will be catering to the world market.
Cobb has not demonstrated this commitment and even if it has, they are no closer than Hymee or EFIDude to shipping a world product. Actually, Cobb may be more behind, because of their methodology. Hymee's and EFIDude's, can be further ahead in this aspect because their pro-tuner functionality is PC software based and their hardware will work with all RX-8s.
Furthermore, arguably Cobb has not made a "tuner product" for the common RX-8 enthusiast...
Hymee and EFIDude will be catering to the world market.
Cobb has not demonstrated this commitment and even if it has, they are no closer than Hymee or EFIDude to shipping a world product. Actually, Cobb may be more behind, because of their methodology. Hymee's and EFIDude's, can be further ahead in this aspect because their pro-tuner functionality is PC software based and their hardware will work with all RX-8s.
Furthermore, arguably Cobb has not made a "tuner product" for the common RX-8 enthusiast...
We prefer to support our products. With our Subaru Tuning software for end users, we wrote a 30+ page instructional document, compiled and extensive database of commonly used parts with their appropriate ECU settings, completed a worksheet that can be used to assist you with tuning, composed document explaining how the various systems operate, created a dyno tuning checklist for users to follow, and more. As you can see, we simply want to do things well. I am not saying that we will be able to or if we have to go to these extents in order to support our products and software for the RX-8 community, but we do want to provide a superior level of customer service.
Take care,
Christian.
03-27-2008, 12:38 PM
#181
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I suggest we get this thing back on track through a new thread.
Having a Reflasher Shootout with the AP is like having and MP3 Shootout with an iPhone (TM). The AccessPORT is a more advanced device that is capable of much more than just reflashing. I am not saying this to degrade any of the competitors in this Shootout. I simply think that we should also look at the TOTAL cost / TOTAL benefit analysis of all products involved since lolachamp car started by analyzing the full costs of each device. We could remove the color display, simplify the menu and buttons, and only have our device Reflash the ECU, but that is not what the AccessPORT is. We should have a Shootout that analyzes the products for what they are rather than just analyze one aspect of what it does. Otherwise, we would need to value the Reflashing portion of the AP and adjust the shootout price appropriately. That is only 1 of the many capabilities the RX-8 AccessPORT has and I think it would only be fair to discount the cost due to the Reflash only comparison. Otherwise, if we are to compare the full costs, we need to compare the full feature set. Does that make sense? I also believe that this Reflash Shootout should only include products that have been released. From what I can tell, we only have two products for the shootout thus far; the RX-8 AccessPORT and the EFID product, correct?
I believe lolachampcar started this thread with the intention of a fair comparrison. I suggest another thread be started so that we can get this back on task, agreed? What I, lolachampcar, EFID, Hymee & any other competitor post will obviously be and must be seen as biased. I can tell you that I will be unbaised, but I ask that this community to volunteer someone who can be seen as unbiased so they can take this over on this new thread. Any suggestions?
Until then, I will compose a check list like format that analyzes the various aspects of each product, allows for additional information to be posted like reflashing time, etc., and I will prepare it and volunteer it to the person nominated to take this thread over. Please let me know your thoughts?
Take care,
Christian.
O.K. so the volunteer list is below. We can create a poll to officially vote for your representative after we have some volunteers. Maybe we should give this a week to be seen?
1) Charles R. Hill
2)
3)
4)
5)
I believe lolachampcar started this thread with the intention of a fair comparrison. I suggest another thread be started so that we can get this back on task, agreed? What I, lolachampcar, EFID, Hymee & any other competitor post will obviously be and must be seen as biased. I can tell you that I will be unbaised, but I ask that this community to volunteer someone who can be seen as unbiased so they can take this over on this new thread. Any suggestions?
Until then, I will compose a check list like format that analyzes the various aspects of each product, allows for additional information to be posted like reflashing time, etc., and I will prepare it and volunteer it to the person nominated to take this thread over. Please let me know your thoughts?
Take care,
Christian.
O.K. so the volunteer list is below. We can create a poll to officially vote for your representative after we have some volunteers. Maybe we should give this a week to be seen?
1) Charles R. Hill
2)
3)
4)
5)
Last edited by Christian.; 03-27-2008 at 12:50 PM.
03-27-2008, 01:35 PM
#184
They all have "mix", "grind", "pulverize", "emulsify" and "blend".
The main difference is the AccessPORT is the stainless steel Braun and the other two are plastic Hamilton Beach and KitchenAid, respectively.
03-27-2008, 02:02 PM
#186
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Any more volunteers?
Christian.
03-27-2008, 04:55 PM
#190
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I didn't think Hymee's was out yet.
03-27-2008, 06:01 PM
#194
Maybe THOSE kids will know basic science like distances between orbs.I'll remind the pilot about the boost controller.
http://www.nationalspacesymposium.org/
03-27-2008, 09:41 PM
#195
Timeline Christian?
If we can wait until mid April; I can do a system analysis on each set up. If my software is done (and Dannobre has his beta - I won't leave you hanging); then I can even consider working a log only tool for the Cobb if it doesn't take too much time and has any kind of innate logging output ability.
If we can wait until mid April; I can do a system analysis on each set up. If my software is done (and Dannobre has his beta - I won't leave you hanging); then I can even consider working a log only tool for the Cobb if it doesn't take too much time and has any kind of innate logging output ability.
03-27-2008, 09:49 PM
#196
Timeline Christian?
If we can wait until mid April; I can do a system analysis on each set up. If my software is done (and Dannobre has his beta - I won't leave you hanging); then I can even consider working a log only tool for the Cobb if it doesn't take too much time and has any kind of innate logging output ability.
If we can wait until mid April; I can do a system analysis on each set up. If my software is done (and Dannobre has his beta - I won't leave you hanging); then I can even consider working a log only tool for the Cobb if it doesn't take too much time and has any kind of innate logging output ability.
What do you need?