Re-Flasher Shootout.........
02-15-2008, 10:06 AM
#1
Re-Flasher Shootout.........
It looks like there will soon be a bunch of re-flashers on the market soon. Is there any mechanism for an unbiased forum member (or moderator) to take a look at all the available re-flashing devices and advise on-
Cost
Features
Reliability
Ease of use
and the like?
Cost
Features
Reliability
Ease of use
and the like?
02-15-2008, 11:40 AM
#5
While this is going to sound negative, I would be for it, but who would do the testing?
Mod staff (with the exception of possibly one to my knowledge) lack the in depth understanding of ecu tuning to put together a quality report. My extent of tuning is cranking on a distributor and adjusting the trailing timing on early RX7's. Plus, we all have other responsibilities which would prohibit a document being produced in a timely manner.
A magazine would be a great neutral tester. But, would they be interested? Is the scope of the test to narrow for them to gain enough new subscribers?
A rotary shop would have to not have a solution at this time, but be interested in doing so in the future. Some of the tuning solutions come with a canned tuning maps so a dyno would be needed for the testing. And the shop would have to know the difference between maps that are tweaked for maximum performance and ones that will allow the engine to last.
Lastly, who is going to lead the effort?
Mod staff (with the exception of possibly one to my knowledge) lack the in depth understanding of ecu tuning to put together a quality report. My extent of tuning is cranking on a distributor and adjusting the trailing timing on early RX7's. Plus, we all have other responsibilities which would prohibit a document being produced in a timely manner.
A magazine would be a great neutral tester. But, would they be interested? Is the scope of the test to narrow for them to gain enough new subscribers?
A rotary shop would have to not have a solution at this time, but be interested in doing so in the future. Some of the tuning solutions come with a canned tuning maps so a dyno would be needed for the testing. And the shop would have to know the difference between maps that are tweaked for maximum performance and ones that will allow the engine to last.
Lastly, who is going to lead the effort?
02-15-2008, 11:54 AM
#7
While only a few seem qualified, most of those have some leanings one way or the other. The one name that comes to mind as being neutral, Kane. The down side to that is his distance from what is happening, but then again maybe that's good. Jeff is my first choice but I think he may not seem acceptable to the developers.
Last edited by Phil's 8; 02-15-2008 at 11:56 AM.
02-15-2008, 11:56 AM
#8
I was a bit naive in my thoughts in that I had separated out the concept of tuning from the evaluation of a tool.
On one hand, the tool must be used to be evaluated. On the other, the net horsepower gain is a function of the tuner and not the tool provided the tool gives them access to everything they need.
I would shoot for keeping it a simple comparison that is not influenced by the tuning process itself. We could keep it confined to cost, what can you change, did it flash a car without bricking the PCM and how long did it take to flash the car. There could also be a quick pros and cons to highlight the neat features of each product and point out each product's particular annoyances.
It will take someone who is willing to flash their car (maybe with the rev limit changed to prove that the tool did something) and has enough knowledge to spot a Load v. RPM fuel and timing table.
What I was hoping to avoid was biased spewing especially as I am biased.
On one hand, the tool must be used to be evaluated. On the other, the net horsepower gain is a function of the tuner and not the tool provided the tool gives them access to everything they need.
I would shoot for keeping it a simple comparison that is not influenced by the tuning process itself. We could keep it confined to cost, what can you change, did it flash a car without bricking the PCM and how long did it take to flash the car. There could also be a quick pros and cons to highlight the neat features of each product and point out each product's particular annoyances.
It will take someone who is willing to flash their car (maybe with the rev limit changed to prove that the tool did something) and has enough knowledge to spot a Load v. RPM fuel and timing table.
What I was hoping to avoid was biased spewing especially as I am biased.
02-15-2008, 11:57 AM
#9
Power!!
Kane? He seems to have solid knowledge and would not be as controversial a commentator.
Or maybe we do a "he said she said" with kane and MM?
Only question is who gets to be on the bottom.
Or maybe we do a "he said she said" with kane and MM?
Only question is who gets to be on the bottom.
02-15-2008, 11:57 AM
#10
02-15-2008, 12:02 PM
#12
Power!!
In fairness to MM's bias he has previously seen Cobb's tuning solution at SEMA and commented very positively about it. From what I've seen on this forum I believe he would be objective about the good and bad side of both. We may have to wade through some of the more colorful commentary but ultimately I think his review of both systems would be valuable.
That being said I think two reviewers working together (Kane and MM) ala Siskel and Ebert would provide a more well rounded review with educational debate on the nuances and pros/cons of both systems.
That being said I think two reviewers working together (Kane and MM) ala Siskel and Ebert would provide a more well rounded review with educational debate on the nuances and pros/cons of both systems.
02-15-2008, 02:31 PM
#16
Power!!
Yeah I don't think Int-x qualifies as it's not a PCM reflash solution. It may be useful as a comparison to the benefits of re-flash vs. piggyback.
Cool that Harrison has something coming as well!
Cool that Harrison has something coming as well!
02-15-2008, 02:49 PM
#17
Registered
While this is a nice idea, we are merely moderators of a free online forum. That's it. We don't do product reviews because unlike magazines, TV shows, etc, manufacturers don't send us cars or products to test. About the only way I could see this even remotely happening is at a large event such as Sevenstock where people with each system could show up and all could be compared next to each other. I just don't know how else we could pull it off.
02-15-2008, 03:46 PM
#20
Hey Jeff,
Dibs pitcher...
As for review and comparison; I would love to do something like that; I am a huge fan of peer review when conducted appropriately. However, I don't think my time line would be fast enough - even if I got all of the Flash tools today I would not be able to do a full Technical System Review and Analysis until the end of April.
It is nice to be thought of well though!
Dibs pitcher...
As for review and comparison; I would love to do something like that; I am a huge fan of peer review when conducted appropriately. However, I don't think my time line would be fast enough - even if I got all of the Flash tools today I would not be able to do a full Technical System Review and Analysis until the end of April.
It is nice to be thought of well though!
02-15-2008, 07:28 PM
#24
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
Great idea, will be tough to pull off.
Let people formulate their ideas between now and then but at Sevenstock we'll seperate the boys from the men.
Let people formulate their ideas between now and then but at Sevenstock we'll seperate the boys from the men.