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Adaptronic Select Discussion

Old 01-17-2013, 03:58 PM
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So in this setup is the MAF just completely ignored and still plugged in and in place or did you remove it completely?
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:30 AM
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ignored and plugged in... for the most part. A couple months back my final intake tube popped off (coupler was a couple years old) and I drove a good 5 miles on the highway before I realized I had no bewst.

Pulled over, tightened it down, got back on the road and a couple miles later it popped off again. I was off the freeway at that point travelling up down some hilly roads and it did eventually throw a CEL.

Fortunately I was on my way to the shop and installed a nice new coupler.
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:51 AM
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So at this point what would you say are the down sides of going the Adaptronic route and what are the great advantages? I mean aside from what you have stated thus far.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:23 AM
  #54  
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Im very happy with mine, minus the SSV issue that the two of us had.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:27 AM
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And what did you do to work around that? Let the stock ECU retain control?
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
n00bs should be seen reading the thread and not heard from
you CAN be funny ! Who would have thunk ?
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
And what did you do to work around that? Let the stock ECU retain control?

I haven't touched my 8 since early July since I made a move to Boston for a job. I'll be moving home again in April. Chip and I will be finding a work around, but the above seems to be the route we will try first.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
n00bs should be seen reading the thread and not heard from
I know what Shell did, I wanted to know if he did the same as Shell to work around it. Also there was supposed to be an update, I'm not sure if faithandfirepower has later version of the unit/software than Shell. I have an email out to Adaptronic as well.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:40 PM
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9k, you'll find Andy is very responsive and a master engineer.

In the spring I'm going back to the Adaptronic for controlling the SSV and will just suppress the CEL with my AP map.

Positives
+MAP based
+Can easily tune without a dyno
+Open platform
+Supports non OEM O2 sensors
+Phenomenal Manufacturer support

Negatives
-Resets CELs rather than suppress them
-No control of idle RPM
-SSV throws CEL
-EVAP line terminated - throws CEL (work-around is to splice EVAP signal line)
-If no external WB O2 then only OEM NB O2 is used
-Requires external sensor for VSS (not required but helpful with AT)

I run the 10.060 firmware and am quite familiar with the protocol the Adaptronic uses with external devices.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:49 PM
  #60  
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my cobb only resets the cell. am I doing something wrong?

adaptronic seems interesting.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by yomomspimp06 View Post
my cobb only resets the cell. am I doing something wrong?

adaptronic seems interesting.
There are certain CELs some would prefer never be thrown.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ShellDude View Post
9k, you'll find Andy is very responsive and a master engineer.

In the spring I'm going back to the Adaptronic for controlling the SSV and will just suppress the CEL with my AP map.

Positives
+MAP based
+Can easily tune without a dyno
+Open platform
+Supports non OEM O2 sensors
+Phenomenal Manufacturer support

Negatives
-Resets CELs rather than suppress them
-No control of idle RPM
-SSV throws CEL
-EVAP line terminated - throws CEL (work-around is to splice EVAP signal line)
-If no external WB O2 then only OEM NB O2 is used
-Requires external sensor for VSS (not required but helpful with AT)

I run the 10.060 firmware and am quite familiar with the protocol the Adaptronic uses with external devices.

Awesome man, thanks for the info. Andy has been very responsive, he seems like a great knowledgeable guy.

Originally Posted by yomomspimp06 View Post
my cobb only resets the cell. am I doing something wrong?

adaptronic seems interesting.

You have to actually edit the tune with ATR to block a CEL with the Cobb.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:05 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
Awesome man, thanks for the info. Andy has been very responsive, he seems like a great knowledgeable guy.




You have to actually edit the tune with ATR to block a CEL with the Cobb.
thanks. I get tired of seeing the "catalyst" code...
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:02 PM
  #64  
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We haven't done anything yet...We got the car running back in June/July then I took a job out in Boston for what I thought was going to be 2 years, Im moving back in April but Im keeping my job! Just going to work from another office/home more often.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:33 PM
  #65  
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One long click away from real-time fuel map editing on my Nexus 7.

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Old 01-29-2013, 12:02 AM
  #66  
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Pretty awesome dude.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:34 PM
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I am debating on getting this. It's a large chunk of change for something that is for the most part, unproven. I do appreciate the work you have done with it Shelldude. Part of me says to go for it though and see if it works out well. I just hate the process for tuning with a Cobb, it is somewhat of a PIA.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:12 PM
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If you don't like tuning the COBB...better stay away from something more complicated


It appears that best case with this is you have a COBB to edit things that matter on the stock ECU..and use the Adaptronic to run the ign/fuelling.

Not a perfect solution..but at least the Adaptronic is a bit better than the old Microtechs were. Not sure for the money at this point if it is really the best option.

I would be much more interested if it would run the DBW throttle and all the intake valves. Then it would be a viable solution
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
I just hate the process for tuning with a Cobb, it is somewhat of a PIA.
We need to talk
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dannobre View Post
If you don't like tuning the COBB...better stay away from something more complicated


It appears that best case with this is you have a COBB to edit things that matter on the stock ECU..and use the Adaptronic to run the ign/fuelling.

Not a perfect solution..but at least the Adaptronic is a bit better than the old Microtechs were. Not sure for the money at this point if it is really the best option.

I would be much more interested if it would run the DBW throttle and all the intake valves. Then it would be a viable solution
It's more of a complaint on how the tuning process works, logging, copying data, calculating, flashing, logging some more, etc. etc. To be able to tune live and make changes on the fly with a laptop would be nice. plus it sucks that i cannot log boost along side the other Cobb data. I know there are solutions but it's still a pain for me at this point. As for cost, well I would like to do an REW swap so I am thinking saving my cash for that build would be a smarter idea.

Originally Posted by Brettus View Post
We need to talk
Anytime man, any time
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
It's more of a complaint on how the tuning process works, logging, copying data, calculating, flashing, logging some more, etc. etc. To be able to tune live and make changes on the fly with a laptop would be nice. plus it sucks that i cannot log boost along side the other Cobb data. I know there are solutions but it's still a pain for me at this point. As for cost, well I would like to do an REW swap so I am thinking saving my cash for that build would be a smarter idea.



Anytime man, any time

I get you now - thought you were having trouble getting a decent tune . Can't help with the above issues
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Brettus View Post
I get you now - thought you were having trouble getting a decent tune . Can't help with the above issues

Well I am actually, still little nagging issues with going super rich at certain points that I can't seem to get rid of. I may just start over (again),
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
Well I am actually, still little nagging issues with going super rich at certain points that I can't seem to get rid of. I may just start over (again),
Better to post up where...

trick is sometimes they can't be fixed easily. Depending on the injectors you are using and a few other things..you can't change things on the COBB that you would need to to fix it.

Sometimes "fixes" for one thing show up someplace else that you don't intend too
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:12 PM
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DBW control would certainly be nice. Unfortunately the 4AT version of even ATR doesn't have all tables necessary for things like idle RPM. Only the "Pro" version has the tables. At most all I can do with idle at the moment is advance the timing a smidge in WARI with minimal real change.

Real time road tuning with the Adaptronic is very simple. The whole process beginning to end consists of:
  1. Calibrate MAT, WAT, and TPS (one time thing) scales
  2. Input injector latency data
  3. Establish open loop 14:4 idle by adjusting VE fuel table
  4. Adjust no load throttle at 500 RPM increments up to 5000 RPM maintaining 14:4 in open loop by adjusting VE fuel table
  5. Spread no load VE values across the rest of the fuel map
  6. Plug in your target AFRs based on a 4 X 5 cell RPM to MAP table
  7. Put the Adaptronic into closed loop adaptive learning mode for MAP kPA < 100 (no boost)
  8. Open road driving methodically working entire RPM range in all gears and load combinations under 100kPa (out of boost)
  9. Spread out non boost VE values across the rest of the fuel map
  10. Increase max closed loop adaptive learning mode MAP to 120 kPa (roughly 3-5 psi boost)
  11. Exercise load and rpm ranges @ 120 KPa
  12. Spread out 120kPA MAP values across the rest of the fuel map
  13. Switch to closed loop fuel mode < 100 kPA (non adaptive mode)
  14. Slowly tackle WOT adjusting the higher load VE values manually

Suppress any unwanted CELs and tweak OMP, fan speeds, etc with the Cobb.

As you run into various ambient temperature situations adjust the WAT and MAT fuel trim tables to account for AFR shifts.

Regarding getting the right fuel targets for WOT, ultimately I did use a dyno for my final numbers.

Last edited by ShellDude; 02-05-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dannobre View Post
trick is sometimes they can't be fixed easily. Depending on the injectors you are using and a few other things..you can't change things on the COBB that you would need to to fix it.

Sometimes "fixes" for one thing show up someplace else that you don't intend too
Exactly. I just can't get it right and while one part improves another little hiccup occurs elsewhere. But I am getting some good input and help so we shall see what comes of it

Originally Posted by ShellDude View Post
DBW control would certainly be nice. Unfortunately the 4AT version of even ATR doesn't have all tables necessary for things like idle RPM. Only the "Pro" version has the tables. At most all I can do with idle at the moment is advance the timing a smidge in WARI with minimal real change.

Real time road tuning with the Adaptronic is very simple. The whole process beginning to end consists of:
  1. Calibrate MAT, WAT, and TPS (one time thing) scales
  2. Input injector latency data
  3. Establish open loop 14:4 idle by adjusting VE fuel table
  4. Adjust no load throttle at 500 RPM increments up to 5000 RPM maintaining 14:4 in open loop by adjusting VE fuel table
  5. Spread no load VE values across the rest of the fuel map
  6. Plug in your target AFRs based on a 4 X 5 cell RPM to MAP table
  7. Put the Adaptronic into closed loop adaptive learning mode for MAP kPA < 100 (no boost)
  8. Open road driving methodically working entire RPM range in all gears and load combinations under 100kPa (out of boost)
  9. Spread out non boost VE values across the rest of the fuel map
  10. Increase max closed loop adaptive learning mode MAP to 120 kPa (roughly 3-5 psi boost)
  11. Exercise load and rpm ranges @ 120 KPa
  12. Spread out 120kPA MAP values across the rest of the fuel map
  13. Switch to closed loop fuel mode < 100 kPA (non adaptive mode)
  14. Slowly tackle WOT adjusting the higher load VE values manually

Suppress any unwanted CELs and tweak OMP, fan speeds, etc with the Cobb.

As you run into various ambient temperature situations adjust the WAT and MAT fuel trim tables to account for AFR shifts.

Regarding getting the right fuel targets for WOT, ultimately I did use a dyno for my final numbers.

Sounds wonderful. I guess someone has to pull the trigger on this bad boy at some point.
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