Unorthodox Pulley vs Agency Power Pulley
06-07-2007, 03:06 PM
#126
Yeah, this is why I said "with pcm control" but their results can't be argued with, and I doubt Speedsource used 3" diameter because it sounded cool.
Further, they may have taken more advantage of the larger diameter with the pcm work, but do you really think they are flowing that much more cfm from the exhaust ports? They're still NA engines.
Further, they may have taken more advantage of the larger diameter with the pcm work, but do you really think they are flowing that much more cfm from the exhaust ports? They're still NA engines.
06-07-2007, 04:13 PM
#127
There are numerous UD pullies fitted to RX8s out there now - probably over 100 on this board . The only problems I've heard about are fitting problems , due mostly to non-mechanical people doing it themselves. And some people have reported the aircon is not so good at idle - big deal .
Where do you get this idea that all our cooling & electrical systems are compromised ?
06-07-2007, 04:29 PM
#128
Ask MM what he does to tune his turbo . What happens on a dyno is only an approximation of what happens on the road . Spending a whole day helping with my dynotune made me realise just how finiky they can be . Even the guy running it , supposedly an "expert" , had no idea why there were so many variations run to run .
06-07-2007, 04:39 PM
#129
I can hardly believe you wrote that . Did you even read the lengths that SE3P went through from his first tests right through to this latest one ?
Ask MM what he does to tune his turbo . What happens on a dyno is only an approximation of what happens on the road . Spending a whole day helping with my dynotune made me realise just how finiky they can be . Even the guy running it , supposedly an "expert" , had no idea why there were so many variations run to run .
Ask MM what he does to tune his turbo . What happens on a dyno is only an approximation of what happens on the road . Spending a whole day helping with my dynotune made me realise just how finiky they can be . Even the guy running it , supposedly an "expert" , had no idea why there were so many variations run to run .
Yes and I did read the extent he went but still stick to my prior statement...no one is going to believe it without a dyno...does not matter what you do...when I slapped the pulley on and one day got had the opportunity to go against a 350z (at the track) sure I pulled on him...but I'm not about to say that the pulley was responsible as it could have been driver error...
Next time I go for a dyno I'll be sure that I have stable pulls every time and then do two with it on...and two with it off and report the results...simple and something to review and discuss...
06-07-2007, 05:27 PM
#130
MazdaspeedMotorsport/Speedsource pulleys FTW!!!!
kiss your AC good bye though ... but I'm working on an AC pulley to work with it, word is our AC-delete rule will likely disappear next year ...
kiss your AC good bye though ... but I'm working on an AC pulley to work with it, word is our AC-delete rule will likely disappear next year ...
Last edited by TeamRX8; 06-07-2007 at 05:29 PM.
06-07-2007, 05:44 PM
#131
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Perhaps your expert was not really an expert?
Yes and I did read the extent he went but still stick to my prior statement...no one is going to believe it without a dyno...does not matter what you do...when I slapped the pulley on and one day got had the opportunity to go against a 350z (at the track) sure I pulled on him...but I'm not about to say that the pulley was responsible as it could have been driver error...
Next time I go for a dyno I'll be sure that I have stable pulls every time and then do two with it on...and two with it off and report the results...simple and something to review and discuss...
Yes and I did read the extent he went but still stick to my prior statement...no one is going to believe it without a dyno...does not matter what you do...when I slapped the pulley on and one day got had the opportunity to go against a 350z (at the track) sure I pulled on him...but I'm not about to say that the pulley was responsible as it could have been driver error...
Next time I go for a dyno I'll be sure that I have stable pulls every time and then do two with it on...and two with it off and report the results...simple and something to review and discuss...
06-07-2007, 05:47 PM
#132
seek ye a good therapist or at least some prozac...haa
06-07-2007, 05:54 PM
#133
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There is no anger problem, there is a problem with ignorance. Something you have shown time and time again throughout this forum. Grow up and act your age. Anyone who wants to see just how immature and unfounded any of your arguments are needs no further than to read all of your posts from here https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/rx8-vs-mazdaspeed-3-a-116826/page4/
You are a pro at talking bs, have a beer and congratulate yourself. Please let this thread get back on topic and find another one to highjack, thanks.
You are a pro at talking bs, have a beer and congratulate yourself. Please let this thread get back on topic and find another one to highjack, thanks.
06-07-2007, 05:57 PM
#134
There is no anger problem, there is a problem with ignorance. Something you have shown time and time again throughout this forum. Grow up and act your age. Anyone who wants to see just how immature and unfounded any of your arguments are needs no further than to read all of your posts from here https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=116826&page=4
You are a pro at talking bs, have a beer and congratulate yourself. Please let this thread get back on topic and find another one to highjack, thanks.
You are a pro at talking bs, have a beer and congratulate yourself. Please let this thread get back on topic and find another one to highjack, thanks.
I was being serious...you need to find yourself a good therapist or someone to prescribe you some meds...
There is a difference in intentionally poking fun and getting a rise out of people, and what you do which is flip out and aggressively attack others with profanity for disagreeing with you...
Seek yourself some treatment while you still can. And try to cheer up ok?
06-07-2007, 07:47 PM
#141
FWIW, in my direct experience, underhood temps are significantly higher without the trays - even more so without the engine cover.
I think if you are able to stay at speed continuously, not having trays might be beneficial.
But in real-world, stop and go scenarios, the underhood temps soar without direction for the fan airflow.
Simply removing the engine cover yielded static underhood temps in the 200° range with only 30 to 60 second stops in Phoenix traffic. It took nearly 3 miles of fairly constant 45 MPH speeds to get them back down to a reasonable level (110° to 140°). Leaving the cover on kept the temps in the sub 160° range.
Removing the airbox under tray did more or less the same thing, though once the temps got near 200°, I could never get them back down to 120°.
I don't have data for the battery box.
There is a noticeable difference in the quantity of air that comes out from under the car and through the side vents when the cover is removed.
My thermocouple was located near the coils, BTW.
I think if you are able to stay at speed continuously, not having trays might be beneficial.
But in real-world, stop and go scenarios, the underhood temps soar without direction for the fan airflow.
Simply removing the engine cover yielded static underhood temps in the 200° range with only 30 to 60 second stops in Phoenix traffic. It took nearly 3 miles of fairly constant 45 MPH speeds to get them back down to a reasonable level (110° to 140°). Leaving the cover on kept the temps in the sub 160° range.
Removing the airbox under tray did more or less the same thing, though once the temps got near 200°, I could never get them back down to 120°.
I don't have data for the battery box.
There is a noticeable difference in the quantity of air that comes out from under the car and through the side vents when the cover is removed.
My thermocouple was located near the coils, BTW.
06-07-2007, 07:51 PM
#142
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FWIW, in my direct experience, underhood temps are significantly higher without the trays - even more so without the engine cover.
I think if you are able to stay at speed continuously, not having trays might be beneficial.
But in real-world, stop and go scenarios, the underhood temps soar without direction for the fan airflow.
Simply removing the engine cover yielded static underhood temps in the 200° range with only 30 to 60 second stops in Phoenix traffic. It took nearly 3 miles of fairly constant 45 MPH speeds to get them back down to a reasonable level (110° to 140°). Leaving the cover on kept the temps in the sub 160° range.
Removing the airbox under tray did more or less the same thing, though once the temps got near 200°, I could never get them back down to 120°.
I don't have data for the battery box.
There is a noticeable difference in the quantity of air that comes out from under the car and through the side vents when the cover is removed.
My thermocouple was located near the coils, BTW.
I think if you are able to stay at speed continuously, not having trays might be beneficial.
But in real-world, stop and go scenarios, the underhood temps soar without direction for the fan airflow.
Simply removing the engine cover yielded static underhood temps in the 200° range with only 30 to 60 second stops in Phoenix traffic. It took nearly 3 miles of fairly constant 45 MPH speeds to get them back down to a reasonable level (110° to 140°). Leaving the cover on kept the temps in the sub 160° range.
Removing the airbox under tray did more or less the same thing, though once the temps got near 200°, I could never get them back down to 120°.
I don't have data for the battery box.
There is a noticeable difference in the quantity of air that comes out from under the car and through the side vents when the cover is removed.
My thermocouple was located near the coils, BTW.
06-07-2007, 07:53 PM
#143
As an added note, adding a splitter to the front lip may yield the most significant cooling advantage of all.
After a mountain run last week (where my temps started to climb quite a bit - being in boost continuously for several minutes going up a hill in the desert is not easy on the cooling system), I tried taping some cardboard where a splitter would go if I had one.
In informal testing (driving around the local highway, on and off boost in 4th at relatively cardboard-friendly speeds) I noted that the temps refused to climb much over 190° where they would have normally strayed into the 205° range.
That would appear to be what I said.
Furthermore, a strut bar doesn't do much for a car with independent, coil-over suspension like the '8.
A strut bar's job is to "close the box" of a MacPherson strut suspension where the upper shock mount is an integral part of the steering geometry.
On the '8, the OE bar is just there as a bit of reinforcement for the front subframe - not a handling enhancement for which the MS and others are offered.
It appears that the only useful function of the MS strut bar is the master cylinder support.
After a mountain run last week (where my temps started to climb quite a bit - being in boost continuously for several minutes going up a hill in the desert is not easy on the cooling system), I tried taping some cardboard where a splitter would go if I had one.
In informal testing (driving around the local highway, on and off boost in 4th at relatively cardboard-friendly speeds) I noted that the temps refused to climb much over 190° where they would have normally strayed into the 205° range.
Furthermore, a strut bar doesn't do much for a car with independent, coil-over suspension like the '8.
A strut bar's job is to "close the box" of a MacPherson strut suspension where the upper shock mount is an integral part of the steering geometry.
On the '8, the OE bar is just there as a bit of reinforcement for the front subframe - not a handling enhancement for which the MS and others are offered.
It appears that the only useful function of the MS strut bar is the master cylinder support.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 06-07-2007 at 07:58 PM.
06-07-2007, 08:30 PM
#144
well before removing all that stuff my engine bay and intake exterior temps were too hot to touch, it would not cool off between autox runs even with spraying everything down with cold water, and my fans ran like crazy between runs even with the ignition key removed
despite running a slower water pump with Evans NPG-R (general theory says that's a no-no) the entire engine bay doesn't get much above warm and cools down quickly between runs, the fan rarely ever runs with the engine shut down, etc.
fwiw, my fans currently operate on the original OE temp cycle too, no tomfoolery there ...
so I personally have disagree with your assessment because my car clearly runs cooler in the engine area, much more so after getting rid of my previous custom box intake; which simulated the OE intake/battery tray radiator flow containment and untilized the engine cover, for the current Home Depot intake and totally open engine bay. I was intending to insulate the Home Depot intake based on heating concerns, but haven't bothered to yet because it simply does not get hot
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/some-goodies-arrived-today-86994/page16/
Those parts have mass and mass absorbs/radiates heat, plus IMO they do inhibit flow from the radiator
one difference between us is the AC system is removed from my car, so maybe the lack of that pre-radiator heat source and flow restriction matters, I can't say for sure. I just know that what you're saying is not true in my case.
despite running a slower water pump with Evans NPG-R (general theory says that's a no-no) the entire engine bay doesn't get much above warm and cools down quickly between runs, the fan rarely ever runs with the engine shut down, etc.
fwiw, my fans currently operate on the original OE temp cycle too, no tomfoolery there ...
so I personally have disagree with your assessment because my car clearly runs cooler in the engine area, much more so after getting rid of my previous custom box intake; which simulated the OE intake/battery tray radiator flow containment and untilized the engine cover, for the current Home Depot intake and totally open engine bay. I was intending to insulate the Home Depot intake based on heating concerns, but haven't bothered to yet because it simply does not get hot
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/some-goodies-arrived-today-86994/page16/
Those parts have mass and mass absorbs/radiates heat, plus IMO they do inhibit flow from the radiator
one difference between us is the AC system is removed from my car, so maybe the lack of that pre-radiator heat source and flow restriction matters, I can't say for sure. I just know that what you're saying is not true in my case.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 06-07-2007 at 08:43 PM.
06-07-2007, 09:00 PM
#146
BTW - its probably worth mentioning that Mark and I have entirely different ideas of what the expected use of an RX-8 is.
Its difficult (I believe) to have an objective overview sometimes when your entire focus is towards one goal or another.
My entire overview for modding and adapting the RX-8 is to create a custom experience that retains as much OE functionality, drivability and comfort as possible.
Whenever I step outside that realm, I try to be very careful to point out that things can and will go wrong.
Its difficult (I believe) to have an objective overview sometimes when your entire focus is towards one goal or another.
My entire overview for modding and adapting the RX-8 is to create a custom experience that retains as much OE functionality, drivability and comfort as possible.
Whenever I step outside that realm, I try to be very careful to point out that things can and will go wrong.
06-07-2007, 09:07 PM
#147
while not a daily driver my car sees street duty, the engine bay runs cooler in all conditions that I can tell
I do agree that it's important to note differences because differences can and do matter. It's not uncommon for someone to take a unique situation and mis-apply it in a general way unknowingly
I do agree that it's important to note differences because differences can and do matter. It's not uncommon for someone to take a unique situation and mis-apply it in a general way unknowingly
