Japan8

Reminds me of when we had a somewhat similar... "discussion" when RB made those claims.

SSDD

Moonrover333

now that the and we continue to why dont; we all stop and and all this bickering will be
there is way too much on here it makes me want to .

now how about a nice pleasant song to relax to?




Dead puppies
Dead puppies
Dead puppies aren't much fun
They don't come when you call
They don't chase squirrels at all
Dead puppies aren't much fun

My puppy died late last fall
He's still rotting in the hall
Dead puppies aren't much fun
Mom says puppy's days are through
She's gonna throw him in the stew
Dead puppies aren't much fun

Dead puppies
Dead puppies
Dead puppies aren't much fun

Dead puppies
Dead puppies
Dead puppies aren't much fun

Dead puppies
Dead puppies


now all of you cheer up and quit fighting

truemagellen

the reality is dDub you are making claims about RB without any concrete evidence...it wouldn't hold up in court that is for sure

you have a banner that says "hater of racing beat" you are only 21 (yes us young'ins need to step back and think things over from time to time), and worse for you is you are potentially making slanderous/libelous claims that that could possibly get you in legal hot water (even over the web and yes I work in the law, hopefully not for long though )

My point is I was simply playing Devils Advocate as I do not know your side but instead of providing me concrete evidence you alluded to people/things and presented us with hearsay, which even worse was cryptic at best, without formulating some sort of logical arguement...and that is where you sound like you are talking out of your *** and why people are getting upset with you.

If you would have taken a more neutral stance...removed your silly banner, given us the REAL facts, we as intelligent people could make the decision on our own whether or not there are issues with a particular company. Instead we all logically concluded that based on your demeanor here and your inflammatory statements that lack evidence, you can not be trusted and your particular feelings on a company are baseless and your credibility has been compromised.

I really do not care about this like DMP said in fact I as many on the other forum probably will give you another chance to present your arguement in a respectable way, remove your immature banner, and we'll weigh the facts you present. It is that simple.

Hope to hear from you soon .

ddub

The banner is something I've been sporting on rx7club for a while now, just forgot to change it here when I did it there. I am just not a fan of racing beat products, that's where the banner comes from...

It does not come from this thread, don't believe me check rx7club and I have it there too.

I don't see anything I say as changing your mind or point of view, so I'm not going to waste my time. I am presenting things I have heard from others, yes second hand accounts which is not the best but oh well. If no one spoke up, that'd be a bad thing. These people I have talked to are not members here, do not feel like voicing it online for reasons you've stated (legal), and will not ever. Therefore none of these things will be told by them. So someone has to say it, I guess I felt like it considering I've never liked RB products.

Anyways, you have your opinion and that's fine.

truemagellen

coolio

swoope

iTrader: (5)

so i just finished reading this thread, which i tried to break off out of the obx header thread and it ended up here.

so ddub you dont like racing beat right????

beers

ddub

Har har.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

lol,
like the new no comment.

beers

ddub

Well since it was taken for the wrong reasons here, I felt I should change it. Once this thread is over and dies off I'll put it back

Again, this has been a belief for quite a while. If you search rx7club you'll see me telling people to not buy RB exhaust quite a few times heh.

Fanman

I'm reading through this thread and others, and there hasn't been one thing that you have listed that goes to the technical merits of their products. Again, you may not like their business ethics, or you may think that they steal stuff from other people, but the question is "so what ?" I could not care less if they stole all of your friend's ideas or they stole all their designs off of other JDM manufacterers, if it works and it is relatively inexpensive what do I care if they might be sued by someone else ? I've been reading these threads & you & Prober seem to be the ones that dislike RB, but when asked to provide a reason you don't believe in their products you never provide anything. What you have against them is personal, and like you have said before they make 1st rate stuff.

Not trying to make it personal, as you & I have PM'ed before, and I sent you the air intake tube free of charge so you know I'm not an a-hole or something, but I just haven't seen anything to the effect of "From a technical point of view, this is why RB makes a poor product ....."

max5roadster

FWIW, my experience with Racing Beat has been positive. I dealt with them for my miata, and the parts I ordered always seemed well sorted-for the most part. I have their WP/Alt pullies and they are topnotch! But, I also ordered the sway bar mount brace and it was aheavy flat steel bar, where aluminum should and easily could have been used (The bracing of the mounts comes more from the preload than from tying them together.), something you would assume a performance oriented shop would do. For the money, this part was poop, but It soesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing. My mounts never cracked with this mount on, so it worked as it was designed, but just felt cheap-very much the opposite of the pullies I ordered from them. I would and have done business with them again, though. I trust them, but leave room for the possibility that some of the products they offer are less than they could be.

ddub

My biggest issue is with their exhaust systems. I'll keep this rx8 specific since you guys don't care about my opinions on rx7 exhaust components of theirs, most likely, but I will incorporate a few examples from rx7's merely because the rx8 does not have a product and/or service in that area yet

Their exhausts are very mild. They are mild in sound and performance overall. I realize on the rx8 there is not much to be had as far as the catback in performance increase, but RB still seems to be in the lower end, by very little but still the lower end. My BIGGEST issue is their exhaust systems are heavy! The dual catback is actually heavier than stock. I'm not sure how they pull this off to be honest? So the little gain in hp performance + increase weight = no performance gain at all in my view. The quality, however, is very good and should last a long long time.

I realize they have a single muffler/exit catback for the rx8 now too, but even this is heavy! The rx7store.net catback for the rx8 is 0.5 lbs less than the single muffler/exit RB catback according to RB's specs on it. How is that possible? What is RB doing to make the exhausts overly heavy? That's my biggest issue with their exhaust, the weight!

Also, RB exhausts are generally ver mild in sound due to mufflers that will keep sound to a minimum, but at the same time hinder some performance a tad. Some people prefer the quiet sound over the 1-2hp gain of more free flowing, some don't, that's a choice obviously.

As far as non-exhaust components go... Their flywheels are good units, I admit that. I run the aluminum RB flywheel on my 2nd gen rx7, however the reason I do is because no other company provides an aluminum flywheel for the non-turbo transmission 2nd gen unfortunately. The downside to their flywheels, though, is the high cost. Just like everything at RB the cost is much much higher than most companies. I want to know why honestly. Many other companies, for flywheels, such as ACT do the same R&D, have the same weight flywheel, provide the same durability, but provide it at a much lower cost. What makes RB units so special? As long as people buy it, though, they will sell it obviously.

Their clutches are not so top-notch. The reviews I've read about their clutches are that they cannot handle huge amounts of power. They are slightly better than stock, but unfortunately utilize the stock pressure plate unless you buy another from someone else. Furthermore, the clutches deteriorate under higher power applications. Another issue is that they give no power ratings of their clutches, so how should you know what to buy? Even the puck clutches get eaten in the 250+ rwhp range quite quickly. So I do not promote the clutches either.

The oil pedestal adapter for the rx8 they provide now is nice. I have the adapter for my rx7 but it sure is uglier! Not that I care of course. Again when I bought it they were the only company and sold it at a premium cost. Now there are other options out there and the price has dropped fast, supply and demand works funny like that So accessories they sell are fine, but it's pretty easy to make those well.

Suspension next? The sway bars they sell are nice, but they are not the best. RB seems to like to stay mild with everything. The RB sway bars for the 2nd gen rx7, for example, are barely better than TII, and negligible compared to the vert sway bars. Both which can be bought used for very cheap. On the rx8 I have not read many reviews, but I will assume they are mild again. I have however checked the sizing on it and they seem to be smaller than other optoins out there. Their springs are nice and comfortable, but do not perform the best. The springs they develop and sell seem to be suited for street application. Everything I've read, and experienced in an RB spring car, in auto-x or harder cornering is that they do not respond as well as they could. They work fine for normal driving and a bit of spirited runs, but anything harder or auto-x/road race and they cannot respond fast enough. God forbid you take them to the track and have issues launching!

Hmm what else is left. I can't really think of anything else they provide that I have experience or trusted reviews from that they do not personally produce. They do carry products, a few, that other companies developed that work well, but that is not their product so it doesn't pertain here.

Also it doesn't matter for the rx8, but with the 2nd gen rx7 they claim the non-turbo 6 port motor cannot and should not be ported because it will not work right or well. Well... I and others have been proving that false for years. The non-turbo block has tons of room to be ported, and a friend of mine that is a rotary builder for a living makes 200+ rwhp non-turbo cars on STOCK ecu with just an s-afc with stage 1 streetports. RB seems to be a bit behind the times as far as engine building and porting, just from the looks of their templates and philosophies on it. Again this does not pertain to the rx8 YET, but I probably wouldn't trust their templates over some other companies as far as porting goes in the future. The design of their exhaust port for all cars, for example, is just a blob. It has an improper shape to keep velocity at its highest as the apex seal passes by (in older style peripheral exhaust ports). The ideal port would move up HIGHER whereas RB doesn't move up hardly at all, almost none. As well it should move out further, down a tad farther, and be squared off at the bottom rather than round. This has seemed to provide the best velocity and flow characteristics from some builders/tuners testing that I know. This can be debated, however, but RB exhaust templates are pretty mild, just like lots of RB stuff.

This general tendency to be mild could be either their desire to keep the median happy, it could be because they are not experienced enough to go past it, or it could be because of faulty design and they actually believe it will perform in all applications better than it really does. It's hard to know what the true answer is.

Is that more of what you wanted?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

so this is the neverending thread!!!!! good vs evil. i think rp axial flow supercarger #s are going down.

dont think anyone is going to covince the other that rb is good or evil, so??????

and ddub if you got it all figured out at your young age a vast experence you should open a shop. and maybe just maybe mazda will hire you!!!!!

you are pissing in the wind.

beers

ddub

I never said I had it all figured out, I'm just very opinionated

And I had a side "shop" that I did out of my house. Modifications, fabrication, light tuning, tuneups, engine porting/rebuilding, engine pulling/installs, whatever. I did it for cheap for local people to make extra cash and help them out.

However I have higher aspirations than becoming a mechanic for the rest of my life, whether it be a higher up one or regular. Hence why I am applying to grad school.

Fanman

I'm living proof of your theory on Racing Beat products in that I had Racing Beat's cat abck exhaust system, but now I have a $1350 full titanium JIC unit. But you don't see me running down the street screaming out how bad RB's products are, etc. Fact is everybody knows what they get when they buy an RB product. If you don't know that it's sound is a lot mellower than the other manufacturers then I would call the owner the fool, not the company. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy their products. I actually liked the sound of their exhaust better. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. Is it heavier than the stock exhaust, yes it is quite heavy, but of the various exhausts that I have seen (Borla, Greddy, MS, etc) it is as well made if not better than any of the others in terms of solidity. I have gotten their products in the past, & will continue to buy their products, because compared to other manufacturers they make quality stuff, & it is reasonably priced. You write the reson you don't like them is their products are mild mods, but I don't see anywhere they claim that they go crazy on our cars. As a matter of fact they claim the opposite and that they do mild modifications. So where are they selling the consumer a bill of goods ? Where are they deceiving anybody ? When you hate a company it's because they sell a product that does not deliver what the company promises. If you walk into a Mazda dealership, and they try to sell you a Ford then you would have a right to be upset, but if you walk into a Mazda dealership and ask them for an RX8, and they sell you an RX8 why would you have a notion to be unhappy with them ?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

beers

ddub

Did you miss the rest of what I said? Clutches deteriorating at power levels that aren't even extreme and still considered mild/streetable? Suspension components that are barely good enough for spirited street driving? Overly expensive for reasons I do not know?

I can dislike a company for producing things that are mild, it's quite easy in fact

Also, some owners DONT know what they are getting apparently when they order RB. I've read a couple threads on here of people being disappointed at the RB catback due to weight after they installed it. It has been publicized a bit on here, but maybe not enough? Or are they fools as you say heh.

I can also be upset with them for business tactics I've heard from other companies (ones that do not create products, only resell other companies products and import JDM parts) as well as a couple individuals. But I've been through that already.

ddub

I know I don't have it all figured out, and to be honest no one in the world does for anything. It's impossible to have it all figured out about anything, there's always more to learn.

I built true cold air intakes for 2nd gens. People always complained about not having any company make them, so I started one day. Mostly did them on cars I could install them myself, to minimize issues with fitting, but I still sold a few with the best directions I could provide and mailed them out.

I'm happy with what I'm learning, I enjoy it. And if you are or have been a street racer, I'm sorry but you are an *******. Street racers are pieces of crap honestly. It is stupid, pointless, dangerous, and you put other people as well as yourself in unneeded danger. Keep it on the track, and this is coming from a "kid" as I've seemed to be looked at, and nothing more :\

Or if you really have the need, turn on fast and the furious for a while... Street racing is stupid and pointless, period.



And since when did this turn into a quest for knowledge about me? I am not racing beat, this thread is about racing beat, so I think I'm done explaining anything that pertains to me.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

but you will take the time to explain for rb. or your opinion of rb.

beers

swoope

iTrader: (5)

sorry,

i guess the point is. no point, this thread should have died in the obx header thread. good guy bad guy vote with you wallet. no one is going to change an opinion here as we have demonstrated.

pick battles you can win, opinion is not one of them.

good luck in Business school

beers

CERAMICSEAL

I think it's valuable to hash out things like this. It does help mold thought process and logic.
Ddub, unfortunately, if I was asked how old you were based upon your posts in this thread I would have guessed your age correctly or maybe chosen a little younger. My first gripe with you: Don't be so quick to hate or slander. You obviously are on a campaign to tear down. I see this too often in today's youth.
You need to take some time to work on your logic also. This is not an insult, just constructive criticism. I hope for your sake that you haven't pissed that professor off, or then again maybe he needs to be. It could assist in one of the best lessons he could probably teach you.
To you and anyone else that wants to comment on a company or manufacturer, heck, even an individual, please try to use as much specifics as possible and offer proof. Even the guy who said Racing Beat told him something on the phone: It would have been really effective if you were able to say Jim L..... told me or something like that.
As far as Racing Beat goes, they are very careful with their claims and careful not to slander others including the blatantly dishonest companies.
In my humble opinion, their work on the 3rd gen RX-7 was probably their least impressive but still great in the quality and sound category. They are making decent strides with the FE chassis (RX-8) albeit slowly. I think they try to do well rounded products, considering many factors before bringing them to market. Factors like performance, durablity, appearance, legality, marketability etc.
I have personally used their products on my RX-2 and on my 2nd gen RX-7 and am considering their intake and exhaust for my 8. Obviously I am a fan of their products but I'm not about to put that on my banner or my sig.
Lastly, Ddub, I actually think you seem intelligent and I think you made the most sense in your post at 6:16 this morning. The funniest thing though is that you're using one of their products.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

somebody please save us from ourselves already ...

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...6&page=2&pp=15

Jim Langer tells the world Borla was full of crap about their 8hp gain because they could only make 4hp without any mufflers.... why would you even bring up testing involving no mufflers unless you are trying to say there is no more then 4hp tied up in mufflers?

Not only was his move completely classless attacking another company in their own thread, but their claims were only ever backed by the "we are Racing Beat - believe us" philosophy.


I'd like to hear his take now that Borla is only among a half of dozen manufacturers that have demonstrated making more then 4 hp....

Fanman

They don't claim their clutches are made for high hp applications. That is a fact. I called them to order it, and when i described what I was going to do (FI), they recommended to me not to buy their clutch system. Again, they did the honest thing, they didn't claim it could run 400 hp.

I have their suspension package & I love it. You put Konis on there with their springs & sway bars, and you have a setup that would be just as good as say a Mazdaspeed setup, or pretty much any Tein setup.

Overly expensive compared to who ? Is their catback exhaust multitudes drastically more expensive then the other exhausts on the market ? No. Are their springs, No. Look at the price of their components they are very competitive. Compare it to say a Mazdaspeed and it looks even more competitive (though MS makes very good product).

I'd love to see where you are seeing that, because I still have not. If you are pointing to the TurboXS thread, actually bother to read some of the results. Though they claim 21 whp, when they had a car with a RB cat back exhaust, they pulled the exhaust & put on the Turbo XS cat back, AND Turbo XS midpipe (no cat), clutch swap & got 9-10 hp, not 21 hp gain. So unless the RB cat back is adding 11 hp (21 - 10 hp) or the midpipe is adding only the claimed 8-10 hp that RB was talking about all along. Again show us somebody that put on a Borla or Greddy, etc exhaust only & got they claimed 12 hp (that's not a manufacturer's dyno).

truemagellen

wow you distorted those posts beyond recognition

nowhere does what you say occur and to top it off you use inflammatory language that is simply not there