Something Every RX-8 owner should hear/watch(New Info)
08-24-2006, 06:06 PM
#529
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Originally Posted by csuttman
Thanks for the advice... but what is a CEL? And how can I tell if it's been tripped?
Does someone know of a thread that has more good descriptions of the engine problems people have had? I haven't rushed to bring mine in because the problems isn't dramatically noticable. My RX-8 hesitates when I first start rolling. As I mentioned a few posts up, I have to wind it up to about 3-4k RPM's before letting out the clutch or it starts very slow, sometimes chugging along until it gets over 4k. It also runs choppy at about 3.5k to 4.5k RPM's, but seems to smooth out at 5k and up. It also seems the warmer and more humid the day, the more noticable it is.
I called my local dealer and one guy I spoke to (not in service) said they've replaced about 10 engines recently in RX-8's. The 2nd guy I spoke to (in service dept) said the engine problems are "ONLY WITH THE AUTOMATICS". Does anyone know if this is true? I have a 6-speed. Could it really be my imagination that the car used to be much more zippy and fun to drive and now I'm just imagining that it's slower? I have an appointment to bring it in Monday, but I'm afraid they are already preparing me to claim it's my imagination.
What has been the progression of indications leading up to having to have the engine replaced? I'm really confused after reading the post by Spin9k that he couldn't even get over 75mph. Mine seems better at high RPM's, but still not how I remember it being. I used to be able to squeel the tires when stepping on it while turning if the RPM's were over 3-4k, but now it doesn't have enough oomph to hardly go , let alone squeel. I don't think the dealer is going to approve of this method of testing the oomph factor though.
I'm also concerned that if I my issue is the oil leak issue and Mazda really does do a voluntary recall... Am I better of taking the recall and buying a 2006/2007 that has some of these initial production bugs worked out... or taking the new engine and hoping that's the last of the service problems? The end of the 48k/48mo warranty period is creeping up on me quickly.
Here's a link to one artice mentioning the possible recall... http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Consum...ba=a&bi=2&bp=1
I do love the car and the dealer has been really good about handling the issues so far, but dealing with problems with a new car does have an unfortunate psychological impact that I'd rather not have to deal with. I have ask... would I be dealing with such issues if I'd bought a Honda or Toyota though?
Please Mazda... continue to make it right and keep making and improving the RX-8's. It's an awesome design and I'm pretty sure most new models by any manufacturer have initial problems... which is understandable... as long as me and other owners don't get shafted for being the first to rush out and buy them.
Does someone know of a thread that has more good descriptions of the engine problems people have had? I haven't rushed to bring mine in because the problems isn't dramatically noticable. My RX-8 hesitates when I first start rolling. As I mentioned a few posts up, I have to wind it up to about 3-4k RPM's before letting out the clutch or it starts very slow, sometimes chugging along until it gets over 4k. It also runs choppy at about 3.5k to 4.5k RPM's, but seems to smooth out at 5k and up. It also seems the warmer and more humid the day, the more noticable it is.
I called my local dealer and one guy I spoke to (not in service) said they've replaced about 10 engines recently in RX-8's. The 2nd guy I spoke to (in service dept) said the engine problems are "ONLY WITH THE AUTOMATICS". Does anyone know if this is true? I have a 6-speed. Could it really be my imagination that the car used to be much more zippy and fun to drive and now I'm just imagining that it's slower? I have an appointment to bring it in Monday, but I'm afraid they are already preparing me to claim it's my imagination.
What has been the progression of indications leading up to having to have the engine replaced? I'm really confused after reading the post by Spin9k that he couldn't even get over 75mph. Mine seems better at high RPM's, but still not how I remember it being. I used to be able to squeel the tires when stepping on it while turning if the RPM's were over 3-4k, but now it doesn't have enough oomph to hardly go , let alone squeel. I don't think the dealer is going to approve of this method of testing the oomph factor though.
I'm also concerned that if I my issue is the oil leak issue and Mazda really does do a voluntary recall... Am I better of taking the recall and buying a 2006/2007 that has some of these initial production bugs worked out... or taking the new engine and hoping that's the last of the service problems? The end of the 48k/48mo warranty period is creeping up on me quickly.
Here's a link to one artice mentioning the possible recall... http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Consum...ba=a&bi=2&bp=1
I do love the car and the dealer has been really good about handling the issues so far, but dealing with problems with a new car does have an unfortunate psychological impact that I'd rather not have to deal with. I have ask... would I be dealing with such issues if I'd bought a Honda or Toyota though?
Please Mazda... continue to make it right and keep making and improving the RX-8's. It's an awesome design and I'm pretty sure most new models by any manufacturer have initial problems... which is understandable... as long as me and other owners don't get shafted for being the first to rush out and buy them.
"Engines prone to failing the vacuum test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils, according to the automaker."
Perhaps I could repost my comments on not using synthetic oils....
I was castigated by many "experts" in these forums saying that it was cars not using synthetic that had a problem in hot climates....
08-27-2006, 03:29 AM
#531
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Originally Posted by ASH8
What an interesting link read....Syntheic OILS AGAIN!!!
"Engines prone to failing the vacuum test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils, according to the automaker."
Perhaps I could repost my comments on not using synthetic oils....
I was castigated by many "experts" in these forums saying that it was cars not using synthetic that had a problem in hot climates....
"Engines prone to failing the vacuum test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils, according to the automaker."
Perhaps I could repost my comments on not using synthetic oils....
I was castigated by many "experts" in these forums saying that it was cars not using synthetic that had a problem in hot climates....
08-27-2006, 06:04 AM
#532
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I should have got the STi.
Hell, I remember back in '03, Subaru hosted a track day at PIR. I got to race 3 laps around the track in my 2.5RS.......
No... I had to have the rotary....
I feel I like I am getting the shaft more like it..... Back to reading all your comments, page 6 and going.
Hell, I remember back in '03, Subaru hosted a track day at PIR. I got to race 3 laps around the track in my 2.5RS.......
No... I had to have the rotary....
I feel I like I am getting the shaft more like it..... Back to reading all your comments, page 6 and going.
09-06-2006, 08:24 AM
#534
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Thrown out of dearlership in Tampa
Here is the reason and I sent it to the higher ups in Mazda Corp today.
After hearing how poor the score's have been with the RX-8. I then realized that the trouble I was having with my 8 also was happening to hundreds of other RX-8 owners. Ferman of florida ave in Tampa started not hearing me out and telling me that they could not statified my needs with my 8. I then recieved my survey. I put down the truth about my experiance and the next week or so I was told by the upper management not to bring my Mazda back to that store!! I was ready at that time to take legal action. I called Mazda Corp and they told me that it was up to Ferman of Mazda to provide or deny me service. They said " Ferman is a franchise " The interesting part is that ferman owns all mazda dealership in my area. I have to beg the other dealership to help in repairing my 8.
That is not good customer service at all. The next dealership was 1 hour 30 mins away.
I have been humilated before but this one took the cake.
My 2004 just was repaired again yesterday at the Mazda dealership in Brandon Florida ( 45 mins away ).
I cant wait to see what they will say to me about the so called recall, I have 58,999 miles on my 8.
I also recieved the extended warrenty papers that will only give my 8 a couple of month warrenty.
After having my vehicle in for repairs more then 45 time in the last 2 1/2 years I deserve better Mazda.
Mazda owners are the most patient people I have ever met. I think you will agree.
After hearing how poor the score's have been with the RX-8. I then realized that the trouble I was having with my 8 also was happening to hundreds of other RX-8 owners. Ferman of florida ave in Tampa started not hearing me out and telling me that they could not statified my needs with my 8. I then recieved my survey. I put down the truth about my experiance and the next week or so I was told by the upper management not to bring my Mazda back to that store!! I was ready at that time to take legal action. I called Mazda Corp and they told me that it was up to Ferman of Mazda to provide or deny me service. They said " Ferman is a franchise " The interesting part is that ferman owns all mazda dealership in my area. I have to beg the other dealership to help in repairing my 8.
That is not good customer service at all. The next dealership was 1 hour 30 mins away.
I have been humilated before but this one took the cake.
My 2004 just was repaired again yesterday at the Mazda dealership in Brandon Florida ( 45 mins away ).
I cant wait to see what they will say to me about the so called recall, I have 58,999 miles on my 8.
I also recieved the extended warrenty papers that will only give my 8 a couple of month warrenty.
After having my vehicle in for repairs more then 45 time in the last 2 1/2 years I deserve better Mazda.
Mazda owners are the most patient people I have ever met. I think you will agree.
10-23-2006, 04:41 AM
#535
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I bought my 8 without any idea about this thread. I spend most of my time on tech/problem/TSB informations (never really think media news will have something like this). Will I still buy my 8 if I found this thread earlier? Maybe not....
I love my 8. And I know I will always do, even if it kept broken down on me! I know Mazda will do whatever is necessary to keep customers happy. I doubt any corporation would do anything different.
Same thing goes to any car dealer. They want happy customers, and they want to make profits. My major concern is how Mazda will issue TSB/recall that's not listed (or found) yet.
From what I read, I'm afraid that some dealers/technicians will do simple diagnostic, check current TSB/recall on anyone complaining about 8's problem. If they can't determine the cause of the issue they might simply put down "no problem found" and move onto next car. Now, before anyone start calling "whiners", let's assume it's something major (maybe transmission noise or something like that). How will Mazda actually gather those information/data, determine the cause, and maybe issue a TSB or recall?
I have no experiences with automotive service dept, so maybe there's some type of "database" that Mazda will keep track and research based on how many customers are having similar issue? I still can't understand how can Mazda remove 8 from the survey. Couldn't they just ignore the customer complain about something that cannot be determine by multiple technicians and the issue is not found on other 8s?
The responses from Mazda are just way too vague and typical. How am I going to know the technician didn't just check TSB, found nothing related to my issue, and simply tells me "there's nothing wrong" and send me home? And what if the technician simply tells MNAO it's the "situations that are not within their control." after I made a legitimate complain to MNAO?
There will always be problem with cars, no matter what kind of car you got. I just hope that I will get the same respect & treatment my sister got when her G35 needs diagnostic on her A/C and interior rattles (dealer took the car and simply give her the key for another G35 while her car is in the shop).
I love my 8. And I know I will always do, even if it kept broken down on me! I know Mazda will do whatever is necessary to keep customers happy. I doubt any corporation would do anything different.
Same thing goes to any car dealer. They want happy customers, and they want to make profits. My major concern is how Mazda will issue TSB/recall that's not listed (or found) yet.
From what I read, I'm afraid that some dealers/technicians will do simple diagnostic, check current TSB/recall on anyone complaining about 8's problem. If they can't determine the cause of the issue they might simply put down "no problem found" and move onto next car. Now, before anyone start calling "whiners", let's assume it's something major (maybe transmission noise or something like that). How will Mazda actually gather those information/data, determine the cause, and maybe issue a TSB or recall?
I have no experiences with automotive service dept, so maybe there's some type of "database" that Mazda will keep track and research based on how many customers are having similar issue? I still can't understand how can Mazda remove 8 from the survey. Couldn't they just ignore the customer complain about something that cannot be determine by multiple technicians and the issue is not found on other 8s?
The responses from Mazda are just way too vague and typical. How am I going to know the technician didn't just check TSB, found nothing related to my issue, and simply tells me "there's nothing wrong" and send me home? And what if the technician simply tells MNAO it's the "situations that are not within their control." after I made a legitimate complain to MNAO?
There will always be problem with cars, no matter what kind of car you got. I just hope that I will get the same respect & treatment my sister got when her G35 needs diagnostic on her A/C and interior rattles (dealer took the car and simply give her the key for another G35 while her car is in the shop).
Last edited by KoHC; 10-23-2006 at 04:43 AM.
10-30-2006, 09:59 AM
#538
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Originally Posted by 1andonly
yeah does anyone have the video im looking at getting the 07 rx8 i want to see this damn video
11-11-2006, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PRLegend
Here is the reason and I sent it to the higher ups in Mazda Corp today.
After hearing how poor the score's have been with the RX-8. I then realized that the trouble I was having with my 8 also was happening to hundreds of other RX-8 owners. Ferman of florida ave in Tampa started not hearing me out and telling me that they could not statified my needs with my 8. I then recieved my survey. I put down the truth about my experiance and the next week or so I was told by the upper management not to bring my Mazda back to that store!! I was ready at that time to take legal action. I called Mazda Corp and they told me that it was up to Ferman of Mazda to provide or deny me service. They said " Ferman is a franchise " The interesting part is that ferman owns all mazda dealership in my area. I have to beg the other dealership to help in repairing my 8.
That is not good customer service at all. The next dealership was 1 hour 30 mins away.
I have been humilated before but this one took the cake.
My 2004 just was repaired again yesterday at the Mazda dealership in Brandon Florida ( 45 mins away ).
I cant wait to see what they will say to me about the so called recall, I have 58,999 miles on my 8.
I also recieved the extended warrenty papers that will only give my 8 a couple of month warrenty.
After having my vehicle in for repairs more then 45 time in the last 2 1/2 years I deserve better Mazda.
Mazda owners are the most patient people I have ever met. I think you will agree.
After hearing how poor the score's have been with the RX-8. I then realized that the trouble I was having with my 8 also was happening to hundreds of other RX-8 owners. Ferman of florida ave in Tampa started not hearing me out and telling me that they could not statified my needs with my 8. I then recieved my survey. I put down the truth about my experiance and the next week or so I was told by the upper management not to bring my Mazda back to that store!! I was ready at that time to take legal action. I called Mazda Corp and they told me that it was up to Ferman of Mazda to provide or deny me service. They said " Ferman is a franchise " The interesting part is that ferman owns all mazda dealership in my area. I have to beg the other dealership to help in repairing my 8.
That is not good customer service at all. The next dealership was 1 hour 30 mins away.
I have been humilated before but this one took the cake.
My 2004 just was repaired again yesterday at the Mazda dealership in Brandon Florida ( 45 mins away ).
I cant wait to see what they will say to me about the so called recall, I have 58,999 miles on my 8.
I also recieved the extended warrenty papers that will only give my 8 a couple of month warrenty.
After having my vehicle in for repairs more then 45 time in the last 2 1/2 years I deserve better Mazda.
Mazda owners are the most patient people I have ever met. I think you will agree.
This is truly troubling. I do have to say that my 8 has run smoothly throughout the nearly three years I have owned it, but it was only a weekend car until my son went to university, so I have only 35k miles at this point. The local dealer--who did not get my sale--has been superb on warranty repairs and recalls. In fact, when I gave them the car one day to fix some fit 'n finish thing, they told me about several recall notices that I wasn't even aware of, and they did them on the spot, voluntarily (took a couple of hours, I believe). So, I really have to give them their due. But all these horror stories make me wonder how long my love affair is going to last. BTW, I have had numerous QC issues, like window stripping coming off, bolts falling out of the power window servo and rattling around inside the door, passenger-side window does not quite go down all the way, etc. Like many others whose posts I've read, I have hand many moments of feeling, "You just had to have the rotary; couldn't be satisfied with an S-2000, the 350Z wasn't "pure enough," MR-2 didn't have enough *****, and so forth. I now realize that those cars (the Honda and Toyota at least) have far, far superior QC. I, too, will not buy another Mazda, but my reasons are at least partly different from most posters: I am an older man with kids in college. I bought the RX-8 because it reawakened in me the feelings I used to get from my British sports cars in the late '60s/early '70s. It seemed "different" than the others, special somehow, the little-guy-with-the-better-mousetrap. It was a luxury for me, even at its reasonable price. I cannot afford to replace it, and I now realize the resale market for RX-8s is up there view-properties on three-mile island. I have sworn for decades that I would never buy another American car (cool down patriots; they earned my boycott by selling crap to us at inflated prices after first getting their lap dogs in congress to place tarrifs on Japanese cars, "to help them compete"). It looks as though I may have bought one after all.Praise to Zoom44 for looking out for the brotherhood.
Last edited by rotorhead335; 11-11-2006 at 03:25 AM.
11-11-2006, 03:21 AM
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PS: What really...
Originally Posted by KoHC
There will always be problem with cars, no matter what kind of car you got. I just hope that I will get the same respect & treatment my sister got when her G35 needs diagnostic on her A/C and interior rattles (dealer took the car and simply give her the key for another G35 while her car is in the shop).
11-11-2006, 04:34 PM
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I can't believe the lack of service some of you are getting on your rx8's. I bought my 8 out of warranty at a back water dealership and it was in great shape. I had one problem with a recall and let my local dealership know. They said since it was out of warranty they wouldn't fix the recall but that they would call me back in an hour. An hour later the phone rang. The local dealer said he had talked to the mazda rep and would tow my vehicle, fix it, clean it, and give me a small extended warranty for free to keep my business with them. I've had nothing but good experiences, but maybe there's not much of a problem in Missouri. Who knows, but I hope I don't run into a dealer like these.
11-15-2006, 12:13 PM
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Hey RX8ers,
Having quite recently bought a 2006 rx8 and really enjoying the car I'm trying to make sense of what the beef is about. If individual dealer service sections are giving people shoddily repaired cars, well, then that dealer should be hung out for public opprobrium. If Ford owns X-number of controlling shares in Mazda(33% is a figure that has been quoted), maybe Ford *squeezes* Mazda to make Ford's bottom line look good. Any thoughts???
Having quite recently bought a 2006 rx8 and really enjoying the car I'm trying to make sense of what the beef is about. If individual dealer service sections are giving people shoddily repaired cars, well, then that dealer should be hung out for public opprobrium. If Ford owns X-number of controlling shares in Mazda(33% is a figure that has been quoted), maybe Ford *squeezes* Mazda to make Ford's bottom line look good. Any thoughts???
11-15-2006, 02:36 PM
#543
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Originally Posted by Tikhon
Hey RX8ers,
Having quite recently bought a 2006 rx8 and really enjoying the car I'm trying to make sense of what the beef is about. If individual dealer service sections are giving people shoddily repaired cars, well, then that dealer should be hung out for public opprobrium. If Ford owns X-number of controlling shares in Mazda(33% is a figure that has been quoted), maybe Ford *squeezes* Mazda to make Ford's bottom line look good. Any thoughts???
Having quite recently bought a 2006 rx8 and really enjoying the car I'm trying to make sense of what the beef is about. If individual dealer service sections are giving people shoddily repaired cars, well, then that dealer should be hung out for public opprobrium. If Ford owns X-number of controlling shares in Mazda(33% is a figure that has been quoted), maybe Ford *squeezes* Mazda to make Ford's bottom line look good. Any thoughts???
From OZ LAND, It was all because of a video from a dealer to dealer conference that was leaked concerning their score card system for RX-8 owner customer satisfaction. Personally I still don't believe the video should have been released on this forum as the information was not for the general public..however, I very much respect the administrator who did...it was not an easy decision to do so.
According to a recent interview with Mazda's top honcho, Ford has yet to receive dollars (yen) from Mazda as they are paying off long term liabilities and debts from many years ago first. I think the laugh is on Ford, as there are a few aggressive shareholders who are buying Mazda stock back from small investors, you could see Ford loose its majority.
As you can no longer see the video I think the "sticky' on this thread should be removed..
11-15-2006, 03:12 PM
#544
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Thanx to ASH8...
Hello ASH8,
Thanx for your insight. I hope I won't get any problems with the car until after the 60,000 mile mark - when my extended warranty runs out. Methinks that the engine will be alright. I'm changing the oil every 1500 miles as added insurance for the engine. If an RX8er thinks one should change it even more often, do share, by personal message if so desired.
Cheers!
Thanx for your insight. I hope I won't get any problems with the car until after the 60,000 mile mark - when my extended warranty runs out. Methinks that the engine will be alright. I'm changing the oil every 1500 miles as added insurance for the engine. If an RX8er thinks one should change it even more often, do share, by personal message if so desired.
Cheers!
11-15-2006, 04:46 PM
#545
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Tikhon,
Forget the 1500 mile oil changes, 3-5k mile intervals is just fine. Instead, check out some of the pre-mix discussions. It is a mix of 2-cycle oil with every tank of gas. This will help keep the engine lubed better than anything else!
Forget the 1500 mile oil changes, 3-5k mile intervals is just fine. Instead, check out some of the pre-mix discussions. It is a mix of 2-cycle oil with every tank of gas. This will help keep the engine lubed better than anything else!
11-15-2006, 05:38 PM
#546
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Originally Posted by ASH8
Welcome..
From OZ LAND, It was all because of a video from a dealer to dealer conference that was leaked concerning their score card system for RX-8 owner customer satisfaction. Personally I still don't believe the video should have been released on this forum as the information was not for the general public..however, I very much respect the administrator who did...it was not an easy decision to do so.
According to a recent interview with Mazda's top honcho, Ford has yet to receive dollars (yen) from Mazda as they are paying off long term liabilities and debts from many years ago first. I think the laugh is on Ford, as there are a few aggressive shareholders who are buying Mazda stock back from small investors, you could see Ford loose its majority.
As you can no longer see the video I think the "sticky' on this thread should be removed..
From OZ LAND, It was all because of a video from a dealer to dealer conference that was leaked concerning their score card system for RX-8 owner customer satisfaction. Personally I still don't believe the video should have been released on this forum as the information was not for the general public..however, I very much respect the administrator who did...it was not an easy decision to do so.
According to a recent interview with Mazda's top honcho, Ford has yet to receive dollars (yen) from Mazda as they are paying off long term liabilities and debts from many years ago first. I think the laugh is on Ford, as there are a few aggressive shareholders who are buying Mazda stock back from small investors, you could see Ford loose its majority.
As you can no longer see the video I think the "sticky' on this thread should be removed..
Mazda is a tiny player in the game. In the current automotive world, they can't stand on their own. So whatever your opinion of Ford... you should keep it to yourself. Mazda can't exist on it's own and Ford has been there holding their hand since the late 70's... and oh... it's that when the beloved RX-7 first debuted. Doesn't sound like Ford is cramping Mazda's style to me.
11-17-2006, 02:21 PM
#547
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by Japan8
'*sigh* It's not a matter of majority. It's a matter of owning 1/3 or more of Mazda's stock. Anyone can buy up how much ever they want, and Ford can still veto every proposal they put forward... particularly management ones. Part of the legal rights of owning 1/3 or more of the stock.
Mazda is a tiny player in the game. In the current automotive world, they can't stand on their own. So whatever your opinion of Ford... you should keep it to yourself. Mazda can't exist on it's own and Ford has been there holding their hand since the late 70's... and oh... it's that when the beloved RX-7 first debuted. Doesn't sound like Ford is cramping Mazda's style to me.
Mazda is a tiny player in the game. In the current automotive world, they can't stand on their own. So whatever your opinion of Ford... you should keep it to yourself. Mazda can't exist on it's own and Ford has been there holding their hand since the late 70's... and oh... it's that when the beloved RX-7 first debuted. Doesn't sound like Ford is cramping Mazda's style to me.
If any stockholder buys stocks from smaller investors and overtime increases their stake over 1/3...or over Fords stake, who then is the owner?
Management can't veto who buy stock.
I don't have to keep any opinion to myself...who made you the bloody judge.
And who said that Ford is "cramping"Mazda's style...
11-17-2006, 02:33 PM
#548
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They can in Japan (or at least try to). Thus part of the source of the battle between Nippon Brodcasting and Livedoor earlier this year. Strategies like diluting the stock by splitting the shares... and other strategies to prevent buyouts also exist. And even if someone did manage the takeover... Ford still retains veto voting rights on the board. but such a scenario would likely never happen unless Ford and Mazda were both in agreement. Just part of how things work in Japan... don't rock the boat... or in Japanese style... the nail that stands up gets hammered down. Take a guess why Horie from Livedoor got busted...
"YOU" wasn't you. Stop getting your panties in wad. It was the *general* "you" as in it was directed at the many people who post anti-Ford comments on the forum.
"YOU" wasn't you. Stop getting your panties in wad. It was the *general* "you" as in it was directed at the many people who post anti-Ford comments on the forum.
11-17-2006, 02:46 PM
#549
Super Moderator
Yeah Ford has made some great automotive moves over the years.....
Out of their 8 Brands, I would suggest Mazda is the only one that is currently "performing"..
Aston Martin (great range), but Ford are looking to offload/sell.
Jaguar...again, would if they could.
Volvo......leave that marque alone..
Land Rover....just keeping head above water..
Ford, Lincoln, Mercury... a US basket case....
Ford Australia...loosing market share....now won't be launching any ALL New Falcon, their Orion project for 2008 will be off the current 12 yo platform to save costs..
US makers are going so well they have gone cap in hand to your Administration for help, something they said they would never do...
Anyway..back on topic....
Out of their 8 Brands, I would suggest Mazda is the only one that is currently "performing"..
Aston Martin (great range), but Ford are looking to offload/sell.
Jaguar...again, would if they could.
Volvo......leave that marque alone..
Land Rover....just keeping head above water..
Ford, Lincoln, Mercury... a US basket case....
Ford Australia...loosing market share....now won't be launching any ALL New Falcon, their Orion project for 2008 will be off the current 12 yo platform to save costs..
US makers are going so well they have gone cap in hand to your Administration for help, something they said they would never do...
Anyway..back on topic....
11-17-2006, 02:55 PM
#550
Super Moderator
and no new engines for the "New Falcon"...the usual/old straight 6..
but, they say they will meet euro emissions with it..
but, they say they will meet euro emissions with it..