Facelifted RX8 revealed!!!!
01-15-2008, 03:23 AM
#851
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When you also consider the changes over the years, this new model has got some signficant developments....(stats from RX8Club.com.au site)
2004
Sump Changed
Windscreen washer water bottle changed from black to clear (Late 04)
Green indicator arrows changed from green to yellow/green colour within dash
2005
Starter Motor Changed
Sunroof model added
Lightning Yellow removed
Flick key provided as standard
Limited Edition RX-8s available in Ebony Black (ie. Cherry/Coca-Cola colour) and Titanium Gr
2006
Changes to leather seats
Snowflake White Pearl added
Galaxy Grey replaces Titanium Grey
Stormy Blue added
Phantom Blue replaces Nordic Green?
2007
Reduction of Power by 7kw
3rd Oil Seal added*
change to side seals*
Lightning Yellow removed
2008
A longer list which is growing by the day...
2004
Sump Changed
Windscreen washer water bottle changed from black to clear (Late 04)
Green indicator arrows changed from green to yellow/green colour within dash
2005
Starter Motor Changed
Sunroof model added
Lightning Yellow removed
Flick key provided as standard
Limited Edition RX-8s available in Ebony Black (ie. Cherry/Coca-Cola colour) and Titanium Gr
2006
Changes to leather seats
Snowflake White Pearl added
Galaxy Grey replaces Titanium Grey
Stormy Blue added
Phantom Blue replaces Nordic Green?
2007
Reduction of Power by 7kw
3rd Oil Seal added*
change to side seals*
Lightning Yellow removed
2008
A longer list which is growing by the day...
01-15-2008, 05:18 AM
#852
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Back in the 80's a well known rotary racer of the series-II RX-7 at Australia's famous Bathurst race track tried a 4.8 ratio & did quite well. Then he swapped to a 5.1 ratio & despite dropping around 10km/h off his top speed he improved his lap times by 2-seconds per lap.
Faster out of corners, faster through the gears was more than enough to get him into the top positions ending up #2 on the podium for the 83 classic race.
His name was Allan Moffat but its the gearing that made his difference.
REgards
01-15-2008, 05:36 AM
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01-15-2008, 05:50 AM
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Is that true? I was completely unaware that the Renesis has had modifications affecting internal parts.
Now, if a 3rd oil seal has been added, then the rotor shape has also had to be changed to accomodate the first!
Could anyone develop on this info? Any link o a thread covering it? (I would not like to hi-jack this thread !!)
Cheers
jird20
Now, if a 3rd oil seal has been added, then the rotor shape has also had to be changed to accomodate the first!
Could anyone develop on this info? Any link o a thread covering it? (I would not like to hi-jack this thread !!)
Cheers
jird20
01-15-2008, 05:51 AM
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Remember that the car has now 19 inch wheels, the 4.77 is to compensate for the larger size as well as 225/40 instead of 225/45 tires
Last edited by rotary crazy; 01-15-2008 at 05:54 AM.
01-15-2008, 05:53 AM
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There is alot we don't know at this point. It would appear Mazda made changes, rear end (hopefully tranny gearing), exhaust, prolly the cat and ECU, to get the car more average power. I bet when dyno'd the car is now slightly under rated, rather than over rated. Mazda likely didn't want to go through the brain damage and PR of re rating the car again, rather choose to get more average power and let the results speak for themselves in the magazine reviews. I bet the car dyno's around 203whp now.
Mazda prolly got another 10-12 peak whp out of the car, but from a marketing perspective, thats not going to make a HP junkie decide he doesn't want a Z anymore.
Mazda has to have changed the tranny ratios to compensate for the rear end, or the mileage is going to ****. If they didn't I'm going to be shocked....
Mazda prolly got another 10-12 peak whp out of the car, but from a marketing perspective, thats not going to make a HP junkie decide he doesn't want a Z anymore.
Mazda has to have changed the tranny ratios to compensate for the rear end, or the mileage is going to ****. If they didn't I'm going to be shocked....
01-15-2008, 07:23 AM
#859
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225/40-19 diameter is only .1" higher than the 18" and sidewalls are 4" for the 18" and 3.5" for the 19". So you're taking 1/2 of rubber and support from the inner circumference on both sides of the 19" tire. .1 diameter isn't much add'l height. Heck, you'll lose more tread than that over the life of a tire.
The 19" tire could actually end up being lighter in this instance than the 18" to offset the weight of the wheel increase (if there even is one).
Edit: Confirmed.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.j...irePageLocQty=
RE-050A tires (these are the tires on the car in the initial post...)
225/45-18 are 28 lbs
225/40-19 are 27 lbs
So, if the 19" wheel weighs a pound more than the stock 18" wheels, it's all a wash.
--kC
Last edited by Imp; 01-15-2008 at 07:32 AM.
01-15-2008, 08:10 AM
#860
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Food for though:
One fact that makes one think the gearbox could be well different from the current one is that " ...Driveshaft rigidity is improved".
Current one is carbon fiber. IMO Mazda is not going to replace something that it is perfect to make it more perfect. There is not point (commercially speaking) but...
It could happen that the "new" transmission could be different in size and therefore the driveshaft had to be replaced with a different one. If the lenght is shorter the driveshaft would be more rigid easily (and this can be used as publicity given the fact that the car will not come many new apparent features). Now (and this is a bit of wishful thinking) if the gearbox is longer (bigger) it could be because it has been redesigned to be i.e. stronger. Once you make it different, gear ratios could be also different.
Then again, who knows.
Cheers
jird20
One fact that makes one think the gearbox could be well different from the current one is that " ...Driveshaft rigidity is improved".
Current one is carbon fiber. IMO Mazda is not going to replace something that it is perfect to make it more perfect. There is not point (commercially speaking) but...
It could happen that the "new" transmission could be different in size and therefore the driveshaft had to be replaced with a different one. If the lenght is shorter the driveshaft would be more rigid easily (and this can be used as publicity given the fact that the car will not come many new apparent features). Now (and this is a bit of wishful thinking) if the gearbox is longer (bigger) it could be because it has been redesigned to be i.e. stronger. Once you make it different, gear ratios could be also different.
Then again, who knows.
Cheers
jird20
Last edited by jird20; 01-15-2008 at 08:13 AM.
01-15-2008, 08:31 AM
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"Shockingly enough, Mazda did not want to spend much time today talking about the 2009 RX-8. Details on its new front fascia were left unsaid, and the new R3 sport package that adds Bilstein shocks, Recaro seats and urethane-filled suspension crossmembers was barely mentioned. So when a Mazda official told us after the press conference that the car was also 45 pounds lighter than before we were skeptical. Turns out the optional 19-inch wheels that come with the R3 package are actually lighter than the stock 18s. And apparently those Recaro seats are much lighter than stock. Combined with the new shorter rear end gear, this RX-8 might actually feel new from behind the wheel."
Source: http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightlin...etroitAutoShow
Source: http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightlin...etroitAutoShow
01-15-2008, 09:03 AM
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"Shockingly enough, Mazda did not want to spend much time today talking about the 2009 RX-8. Details on its new front fascia were left unsaid, and the new R3 sport package that adds Bilstein shocks, Recaro seats and urethane-filled suspension crossmembers was barely mentioned. So when a Mazda official told us after the press conference that the car was also 45 pounds lighter than before we were skeptical. Turns out the optional 19-inch wheels that come with the R3 package are actually lighter than the stock 18s. And apparently those Recaro seats are much lighter than stock. Combined with the new shorter rear end gear, this RX-8 might actually feel new from behind the wheel."
Source: http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightlin...etroitAutoShow
Source: http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightlin...etroitAutoShow
01-15-2008, 09:22 AM
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some more info from edmunds on the 2009 changes (not sure if it's already been posted):
Source: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/au...9mazdarx8.html
What is it?
2009 Mazda RX-8
What's special about it?
If you're really into rotary engine-inspired wheels, the 2009 Mazda RX-8 might fall into the "special" category. For the rest of us, this RX-8 is merely what car companies like to call a "midcycle refresh." No major sheet metal changes, a relatively untouched interior and nothing much going on under the hood. It's an attempt to inject some newness into an aging car without spending the big bucks to give it a full redesign.
In this case, the refreshed exterior pieces include the front and rear bumpers, front fasica and the headlights. Oh, and the tailpipes now measure 90mm across, which is wider for those who aren't familiar with the tailpipe diameter of the current RX-8.
Inside the RX-8, the upgrades for 2009 are equally minor. Mazda has redesigned the center stack and added a new steering wheel. The front and rear seats have been changed, and we can only assume that they'll be a more comfortable place to sit than before. There's also a new tachometer with a variable redline similar to BMW's M cars, so as the engine oil warms up, the redline rises. Not a bad addition considering the Mazda rotary's 9,000-rpm capability. Horsepower remains unchanged at 232 hp, but a shorter 4.77:1 rear-axle ratio should give manual-equipped cars some added low-end punch.
Mazda says it also added some structural reinforcements to boost the RX-8's overall body rigidity and has also made a front strut-tower bar standard equipment and strengthened the front suspension towers as well. A stiffer driveshaft and reconfigured rear suspension are also part of the refresh.
If these upgrades don't sound substantial enough, there's also a new R3 sport package. It adds Bilstein shocks and a sport-tuned suspension complete with urethane foam-filled crossmembers up front. Since no one can see those nifty crossmembers, the R3 package also includes a rear spoiler, extended side sills, foglights and a more aggressive front bumper. A set of 19-inch forged aluminum alloy wheels with high-performance summer tires is also part of the package.
There are interior upgrades included in the R3 package as well. Recaro seats with leather side bolsters replace the stock units, while the stereo has been upgraded to a 300-watt Bose audio system with integrated Bluetooth connectivity. There's also the all-important leather-wrapped parking brake handle and a keyless ignition system.
What's Edmunds' take?
All the RX-8 has ever needed was a little more horsepower. Making it look good might help for now, but a full redesign couldn't come soon enough. — Ed Hellwig, Senior Editor
2009 Mazda RX-8
What's special about it?
If you're really into rotary engine-inspired wheels, the 2009 Mazda RX-8 might fall into the "special" category. For the rest of us, this RX-8 is merely what car companies like to call a "midcycle refresh." No major sheet metal changes, a relatively untouched interior and nothing much going on under the hood. It's an attempt to inject some newness into an aging car without spending the big bucks to give it a full redesign.
In this case, the refreshed exterior pieces include the front and rear bumpers, front fasica and the headlights. Oh, and the tailpipes now measure 90mm across, which is wider for those who aren't familiar with the tailpipe diameter of the current RX-8.
Inside the RX-8, the upgrades for 2009 are equally minor. Mazda has redesigned the center stack and added a new steering wheel. The front and rear seats have been changed, and we can only assume that they'll be a more comfortable place to sit than before. There's also a new tachometer with a variable redline similar to BMW's M cars, so as the engine oil warms up, the redline rises. Not a bad addition considering the Mazda rotary's 9,000-rpm capability. Horsepower remains unchanged at 232 hp, but a shorter 4.77:1 rear-axle ratio should give manual-equipped cars some added low-end punch.
Mazda says it also added some structural reinforcements to boost the RX-8's overall body rigidity and has also made a front strut-tower bar standard equipment and strengthened the front suspension towers as well. A stiffer driveshaft and reconfigured rear suspension are also part of the refresh.
If these upgrades don't sound substantial enough, there's also a new R3 sport package. It adds Bilstein shocks and a sport-tuned suspension complete with urethane foam-filled crossmembers up front. Since no one can see those nifty crossmembers, the R3 package also includes a rear spoiler, extended side sills, foglights and a more aggressive front bumper. A set of 19-inch forged aluminum alloy wheels with high-performance summer tires is also part of the package.
There are interior upgrades included in the R3 package as well. Recaro seats with leather side bolsters replace the stock units, while the stereo has been upgraded to a 300-watt Bose audio system with integrated Bluetooth connectivity. There's also the all-important leather-wrapped parking brake handle and a keyless ignition system.
What's Edmunds' take?
All the RX-8 has ever needed was a little more horsepower. Making it look good might help for now, but a full redesign couldn't come soon enough. — Ed Hellwig, Senior Editor
01-15-2008, 09:24 AM
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"Shockingly enough, Mazda did not want to spend much time today talking about the 2009 RX-8. Details on its new front fascia were left unsaid, and the new R3 sport package that adds Bilstein shocks, Recaro seats and urethane-filled suspension crossmembers was barely mentioned. So when a Mazda official told us after the press conference that the car was also 45 pounds lighter than before we were skeptical. Turns out the optional 19-inch wheels that come with the R3 package are actually lighter than the stock 18s. And apparently those Recaro seats are much lighter than stock. Combined with the new shorter rear end gear, this RX-8 might actually feel new from behind the wheel."
Source: http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightlin...etroitAutoShow
Source: http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightlin...etroitAutoShow
Lighter, 4.77, and maybe a few hp more, I want one!
01-15-2008, 10:44 AM
#870
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what it came down to yesterday was potentially better average power so acceleration and dyno(wheel) numbers would be up without enough of a hp rise to warrant changing the spec number.
im not happy with that as the end of the discussion tho.
01-15-2008, 10:59 AM
#872
Provided the ratios don't change from the MX-5 transmission, the following should be a very accurate gear chart showing the differences between an '04-'08 car and the '09 R3. At 60mph, the new car will only be about 124rpm more in 6th gear. Not the direction some were hoping for, but also not as drastic of a change as it may have seemed.
I'll work to verify that the ratios aren't going to change. We hope to have a test-mule transmission here to play with (I've already eyeballed one in the tech center,) within a month or so, and when we do I'll let everyone know how it holds up.
Car (1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th FD)
04-'08' RX-8 (3.760 - 2.269 - 1.645 - 1.187 - 1.000 - 0.843 - 4.440)
09' RX-8 R3 (3.815 - 2.260 - 1.640 - 1.177 - 1.000 - 0.832 - 4.770)
Revs @60, '04-'08 RX-8 - 2nd - 8391.9 / 3rd - 6084.1 / 4th - 4390.1 / 5th - 3698.5 / 6th - 3117.9
Revs @60, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd - 8807.4 / 3rd - 6391.2 / 4th -4586.9 / 5th - 3897.1 / 6th - 3242.4
Speed @Redline, '04-'08 RX-8 - 2nd - 63.6 / 3rd - 87.8 / 4th - 121.6 / 5th - 144.4 / 6th - 171.3
Speed @Redline, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd - 60.6 / 3rd - 83.6 / 4th - 116.4 / 5th - 137.0 / 6th - 164.7
Rev drop, '04-'07 RX-8 - 2nd to 3rd - 6746.7 / 3rd to 4th - 6715.0 / 4th to 5th - 7839.9 / 5th to 6th - 7845.0
Rev drop, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd to 3rd - 6885.3 / 3rd to 4th - 6809.6 / 4th to 5th - 8061.4 / 5th to 6th - 7894.2
I'll work to verify that the ratios aren't going to change. We hope to have a test-mule transmission here to play with (I've already eyeballed one in the tech center,) within a month or so, and when we do I'll let everyone know how it holds up.
Car (1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th FD)
04-'08' RX-8 (3.760 - 2.269 - 1.645 - 1.187 - 1.000 - 0.843 - 4.440)
09' RX-8 R3 (3.815 - 2.260 - 1.640 - 1.177 - 1.000 - 0.832 - 4.770)
Revs @60, '04-'08 RX-8 - 2nd - 8391.9 / 3rd - 6084.1 / 4th - 4390.1 / 5th - 3698.5 / 6th - 3117.9
Revs @60, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd - 8807.4 / 3rd - 6391.2 / 4th -4586.9 / 5th - 3897.1 / 6th - 3242.4
Speed @Redline, '04-'08 RX-8 - 2nd - 63.6 / 3rd - 87.8 / 4th - 121.6 / 5th - 144.4 / 6th - 171.3
Speed @Redline, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd - 60.6 / 3rd - 83.6 / 4th - 116.4 / 5th - 137.0 / 6th - 164.7
Rev drop, '04-'07 RX-8 - 2nd to 3rd - 6746.7 / 3rd to 4th - 6715.0 / 4th to 5th - 7839.9 / 5th to 6th - 7845.0
Rev drop, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd to 3rd - 6885.3 / 3rd to 4th - 6809.6 / 4th to 5th - 8061.4 / 5th to 6th - 7894.2
Last edited by Jason Saini; 01-15-2008 at 11:05 AM.
01-15-2008, 11:11 AM
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01-15-2008, 11:20 AM
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thanks jason i was thinking of doign the same
im being obtuse this morning- how does the 4.77 make the car quicker if at redline the car is actually slower in each gear....
Speed @Redline, '04-'08 RX-8 - 2nd - 63.6 / 3rd - 87.8 / 4th - 121.6 / 5th - 144.4 / 6th - 171.3
Speed @Redline, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd - 60.6 / 3rd - 83.6 / 4th - 116.4 / 5th - 137.0 / 6th - 164.7
Speed @Redline, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd - 60.6 / 3rd - 83.6 / 4th - 116.4 / 5th - 137.0 / 6th - 164.7