olddragger

iTrader: (3)

big changes---but honestly i am not sure that the engine will ever reach production in a rx8. recips in comparable cars have just set the bar too high. So what would be the advantage of increased production costs to Mazda when this would not reach the benchmark?
Maybe they are exploring a lighter chassis setup under say 3K lbs?
Would DI pose problems with premixing /FI?
olddragger

CyberPitz

Didn't they mention they were working on weight savings of, what, 300lbs less? That will help quite a bit!

I wouldn't think there would be an issue with premixing and the DI setup. Not much has changed in that manner. Then again, I'm no engineer.

robrecht

The only hope for the 16x that's not compromised by hydrogen or hybrid crap is in a limited production halo track/street car that has 2 seats and ultralight weight. Expensive but continue to show off the advantages of rotary technology and Mazda's image as an innovator. But they can't sell a lot in the US beause that would hurt their fleet average fuel economy and Mazda seems to be rather far behind in the hybrid market so I imagine they'll be struggling with their other cars for a while. And I'm not too hopeful for this.

Riley Craven

iTrader: (1)

Based on some articles I've read, mazda seems to be ditching hybrids in favor of diseal vehicles for the future. Frankly, I think this is a much better idea. Batteries sicken me to the core. Until capacitor technology has reached the point that it can compete effectively with batteries, true electric cars will always be a dream.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

hmmm- maybe the 16x will be a spark assisted diesel?
OD

robrecht

Only for the near future--they know (and have also said) that eventually will need hybrid technology to meet future fuel economy standards.

robrecht

Well, one of the advantages of rotary technology is the ability to run low octane fuels. NASA and Curtiss-Wright were well on the way to perfecting a highly efficient turbo-Diesel test stand rotary. Running at a sweet spot, Frazer-Nash used a former-Diesel turbo rotary in their series hybrid Namir show car. Most suspect there may have been a certain amount of optimistic estimation in their claims, but I don't think the rotary is dead yet. Still, we'll be very lucky to get one more generation of pure rotary goodness.

Riley Craven

iTrader: (1)

I think that kind of outlook is premature. By the time they need to switch completely I am willing to bet that autos will be going towards fully electric engines which would be way more efficient than hybrids ever will in terms of energy conversion and emmissions. Think how much weight you could cut from a car if it litterally had no emmissions. Either way, I think its better for them to wait untill either capitor technology catches up to batteries, or battery technology gets better.

ASH8

I agree with Robrecht..

There comes a time when someone (the Boss) at Mazda Japan will make a decision on any new Rotary, that will have to be soon.

Frankly all the indicators are not great, oil is shooting up again..like the price of gold.

Mazda is gearing up production again as Europe's "Cash for Clunkers" policy starts, but buyers are going for small economy cars.

So where is the market for a Rotary Sports, if you guys think it can't sell in the US then it is dead.. it has to work in the US or it is a no go.

The new Z has just been released here and I hear sales are dismal...the 8 is even worse.

I like the fact that the "Patent News" has leaked out, but it really is no "Green" or 'Go' Light.

ASH8

Don't forget Mazda announced way before the new CAFE standards they were shooting for a 25-30% MPG improvement by 2015.
All their cars meet the tougher euro emissions.

You will see all new small 1.4l and 1.6l 4 Cylinder DI banger engines with Turbo's.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

agree with that and we may see oem w/m injection.
OD

shazy

/\ I doubt that will happen anytime soon as M injection takes space
But if that does it would make a new generation of automobiles. BTW, nice AVATAR, looks much better than the other one.

kevinD1226

well whatever happens witht he new rotary ill be more than happy to give the green light to whatever company wants to swap it in a rx8

Drumm09

Not it isn't. The rotary sports car is not dead-and we will see information on a new one soon. Just sit tight and wait.

shazy

/\ Do you have any new info... genius?

arghx7

The new Z is selling like crap because the economy is in the tank and credit is tight, not necessarily because people don't find it appealing and affordable for normal circumstances.

Mazda is smart to stay away from hybrids if they truly can get the efficiency they need from more conventional gas and diesel setups.

muythaibxr

Actually, I know that already, what I'm saying is that the one "firing" into the exhaust isn't actually sparking... the ionized gasses there make the spark plug gap essentially a short circuit.

Yes, I know all this, rotary basics after all. I wrote the code on the megasquirt to deal with rotary ignition, so I know how it works. But, I've seen cases where putting the timing light on L1 lines up, and L2 doesn't depending on wire and the timing light. Which leads me to believe that there is more current flow or higher voltage through one wire than the other.

I've seen both situations occur. With 7's that have thicker plug leads and certain inductive timing lights, it's possible to see L1 firing at the same rate as T1 and only lining up with the timing marks, and it's possible to see L2 fire 180 degrees off from that. I'm not saying that Leading isn't firing every 180 degrees, just that I doubt that the "wasted" spark is actually cleaning up emissions, as it's firing into an ionized gas mixture with very little combustible material (O2, fuel) left. The exhaust gas is essentially a short circuit across the plug gap.

Not on a second gen 7, that causes the dashboard tach to turn off on that generation, and I've never seen that happen; at least not with the factory ECU.

In any case, I plan on reading the new patent as it looks quite interesting.

Ken

ecsw

saw this on autoblog today too. hopefully it will also improve the fuel efficient.

rotarygod

You've got me thinking about that one. It "shouldn't" be that way as in theory they should be equal. Perhaps one wire/plug/coil post could have less resistance than the other causing the inequality? If they weren't equal for some reason then that could lead to some interesting power/economy issues that people are realizing. I'm going to have to look into that. BDC took 2 trailing coils and replaced his dual post leading coil with them. He used the wiring from the leading coil so it still works the same. I'd think that if there were an issue, even though these would still be firing at the same time, that they'd at least overcome any issues with imbalance this way. Interesting to think about.

Sorry we got off track.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Just wanted to reiterate this link. See esp. Point 2 Direct Injection.

http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/16x/

Can't wait for the 16X, hopefully in a two-seater.

rotarygod

We've known for a while that it was going to be direct injected. What surpises me is that we totally missed 9or at least no one said anything) about the spray pattern in the animation also pointing towards the intake ports. Although the injector is pointing straight down, the spray pattern is pointing towards the ports. This isn't too uncommon as the Lexus IS direct injectors also focus their spray pattern in one direction.

In the tech paper it shows the injector pointing towards the intake ports rather than down with an angled spray direction. This actually doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is fuel spray direction. My next question is, does the injector have a dual path spray pattern as drawn in the illistration in the tech paper or was that nothing more than illustration only?

opus_opus

Let us see....diesel will solve the problem of..

lack of torque - diesel provides lots of torque, check
low mileage - diesel improves fuel economy, check
rotary eating oil - diesel has natural lubricating capabilities, check

Do I really want a diesel rotary?