dynamho

I believe the bonnet is indeed made out of aluminium.

Musker

You know what's spooky cool, is that the RX8's time by the stig for the lap at their track is my birth date, day month and year X_x

<33333333333333 rx8

CyberPitz

Except there isn't a single insult being thrown around.

TBH, this car is about on par in speed with the RX-7 I had prior. It ranked better as it..well, it was new! I didn't have to worry about my fuel pump failing, or the Fuel Pulsation Dampener busting and causing an engine fire.....no wonkey electrical gremlins wrecking havoc.

I love the car for exactly what it is...hence why I bought it.

iwannagofast

After seeing things like this or realizing that any newer sedan with a 6 in it can run on you without taking the car seat out of the back I can't help but feel a little heart broken. But I just walked outside and the first thing I saw was my car, with the wheel turned a little bit so you see the aggressive tread and I just smiled. Its an amazing thing.
I feel like everyone and their brother has a Z, and good for them. But I have an RX-8. Its a monster on the mountain roads I drive on, I love laughing past 8k RPM s, and I love that I can appreciate its design even though my friend with a Sentra SE-R thinks his is faster because he knows his HP number is higher, without even knowing the car doesn't posses one piston. Kind of like when people ask you if its a 4 or 6 cylinder engine. You politely smile, say "yes", and wait for that priceless look of confusion they give you as you walk away. I like to say I think somewhat differently and I believe that my car says that, but to people who know the difference. Its a privileged feeling that comes with this car. Its a feeling that only other 8 owners can truly understand and thats fine with me.

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

Okay, so the video is comparing the 350 with the 8 . . .

Well, to touch on many of the things we've already talked about:

More power through FI: many people in the 8 already complain about the low MPG... I don't think superchargers or turbos would help that. But I think at least it should be an option on some level of trim.
I would like more stomp on the gas smiles out of the 8 - It really does suck sometimes to have a car that looks that good and be demolished in a drag by most cars out there with anything under the hood.
(I know the 8 isn't a drag car. . . but we could have a little bit more there!)


The 8 tries to compete with the Z while trying to be more livable also.
It has more space. I can't get around that. I am constantly wedging cargo into the very large trunk for the car and always in the back seats storing something. The Z is a smaller car - but heavier also.
The Z ruled itself out because it was simply not able to be made into a daily driver for my life. Not to mention the 8 was cheaper.

And we're all willing to pay extra for a car that is different - I also love when someone asks me how big the engine is. (Its got a hemi!) The car is different and rare. In my opinion, the Z looks like the dorky kid that used 'riods all summer and got big, but still doesn't look good.

I think I real good test for these two cars would be a week in each of them. Grocery stores, sporting events, and then an auto X on Sunday.
We'll see how the two cars would stack up then.

At the end of the day, we're talking about almost an extra 5 grand for 1 second on the track... Sure those number look way more impressive than our wankel, but still.

delhi

There are lots more comparison. The Z still lose as the overall sports car to the rx-8. Here's one.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test

the Z even lost to the FWD TT as a sporting machine. Goes to show hp is not everything. But it's great for bench racing.

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

I really liked that article - it begs the question though. Can a car that is marginally slower than competitors still be the best driver experience; and that's what makes the 8 so much more appealing than other cars that are higher HP and faster?

Blackout04RX

I very rarely seem to get alot of agreement when I post on threads like this because I dont live breathe, and die by the engine we have. So when you read what I say next, please remember that i DID buy the car, and did keep it, so I am not hating on the car, it is just an owners observation...

I have noticed that anytime the 8 is compared to another car, the fact of the matter is that the 8 loses the numbers game, loses the power game, and alot of time loses the handling game too, FOR ITS CLASS. But everyone says the EXACT SAME LINE in responce. It is the better OVERALL package. While testers and owners all agree that it is a drivable sports car, I tend to apply the same attitude of "well look at its competition" as people apply to the 8's performance numbers... yes, the 8 is a very easy car not to kill yourself in when pushing it... but that is compared to cars that are more track oriented and designed. It is all relative. The 8 will beat an SE-R (I have one sitting in my driveway, someone mentioned it earlier) in most performance aspects, but loses as a daily driver... and btw we did the same thing on the SE-R forum when it was compared to the civic Si... so its not just this site, or mazda thing...

I guess I wish people would stop quibbling over excuses, and well this cars better in this way than that car, but overall, or in some ways, is different... it all doesnt matter... you bought your car, and unless you go down to another dealership and trade if for something else, you are happy with what you have but don't try and laugh off poorer times at tracks by calling it a daily driver. It is a sports car, and it is getting beat by other sports cars.

Again, one more time, I am not hating on the car, I love my 8, but I am however realistic about its performance...

dynamho

Well said, except this part.

There are many owners who will also disagree with that line. To this group of owners, a sports car is about being connected with the car. As new-age () as it sounds, I guess it's more about feel than anything else. I have to admit, it would be more fun seeing better numbers for the car, but for now, numbers be damned. I certainly for one am not making excuses for them numbers.

dynamho

I don't think it's just me. There's some sort of a trend here.

1st place: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

1st place: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test

4th below R8, GT-R, and M3: http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...ion/index.html

An illuminating confession of an ex-RX-8 owner who now drives a 335i: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=45738&page=1

And Jeremy Clarkson occasionally referring to the RX-8 as some sort of feel benchmark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtKxCOkINnM at 1:18

LionZoo

Power sure, but when has the RX-8 lost out in terms of handling to anything close to its price except for maybe the S2000?

delhi

If people live and die by track numbers I suppose we should all drive Lotus Super 7s and Elise then huh?

shaunv74

Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4's

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6939

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

cars are very personnel things--i have owned a lot of them from Volkswagen to lotus, drag cars, touring cars, family cars, jeeps, lotus, corvettes, 57 chev convertible
a total at last count of 34. i have modified a lot of cars back yard style ---even the bimmers with alpina suspensions etc.
The rx8 is the most balanced, awesome brakes and steering, solid and useful car i have ever owned-----period. Since i have added a supercharger and have approx 290-300 hp at the wheels and 23 mpg, i say bring on the 350 Z's, the vettes (same hp/wgt range), the mustangs, even the evo's on a track and with the same hp/wgt thing. In my wgt/hp ratio catargory i will run with any damn thing you got and I will drive to work in it on Monday and haul Lumber from home depot that evening.
Therx8 does not get the respect it deserves--it is slowly changing.IF Mazda will step up.
olddragger

Blackout04RX

It isn't all about price. In the list of cars that are in the same league as the 8, which isn't just price, or even what is brand new, It has, and can be beat. Many times. I appreciate that the car does do very well in the corners, I have a lot of fun with it when I hit the really nasty turns but my post was merely for more people to be realistic on the whole picture. And that doesn't mean everyone, because many people are and those people deserve credit. Too many people like to deny the facts just because they like the car.

hioctane

Mugen Civic Type RR Vs S2000 - Fifth Gear
http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain....+v+Honda+S2000
Same track/conditions but different driver

playdoh43

you are exactly right, there are owners who love their car and understands that the rx8 is not the best in everything but is the best car for them. Then theres the insecure owners who goes into a fit whenever the rx8 looses in something and feel the need to re-assure them selves by putting down the other car :p

Icemark

Because it would add about $8000 to the price of the car and another 200lbs. As a manufacture they would need a new heavy duty tranny, a new rear end with heavy duty axles, and the turbo system, and then warranty the whole thing.

And how many people would pay $40,000 for a R3 with 275-280 HP? When they can buy a Z or mustang or a Neo Camaro for $5000 less and 50 HP more.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

no way 8k unless the market would bear it. Dont need a differant trans, rear end or axles--may need a little more cooling and its a supercharger--not a turbo. It is somewhat of a more simple setup.
they could easily do this for 5K + people could take a drive train warrenty of 3/36 and engine warrenty as is. who would not do that if he wanted performance?
It adds maybe 75lbs to the car--at the most. Do your homework Dude.
Plus the hp i am talking about is to the wheels--not at the flywheel--again do your homework
olddragger

Icemark

I think you need to go do your homework.

Mazda themselves quoted $8K more when they were first asked about it, back in 03. That number sounds very accurate too me.

The current Asian built tranny has troubles with the stock 230/240HP, well alone if you added another say 50 ft lbs too it. Go check the tech section and high power sections on the board here and watch the people that make real power using a R type tranny instead of the 6 speed M type Asian built one that comes with the FE. Sure there are people using the current tranny with Turbos or superchargers, but how many trannys will they have gone through by the time they get 100-120,000 miles on the car.

And don't forget the little stuff like the current ignition coils which have trouble staying stable at 0 PSI well alone at 6 psi of boost.

Adding the factory turbo onto a FC (2nd Gen RX-7) added 178lbs over what a non turbo equipped the same way did. This included heavy duty tranny (a 5 speed capable of handling 400 HP) a bigger rear end gear, bigger drive shaft, bigger half axles, and revised gauges and of course revised suspension, including springs and stabilizer bars.

But lets look at a more modern version... lets look at a Mazda3 vs a Mazdapspeed 3... there you have 373lbs difference between the base model and the base model Turbo...and everyone sure knows that the extra sport seats, power windows and exterior plastic don't add 100 lbs, well alone 373lbs. (numbers based off of the vehicle weights listed on the Mazda USA website - base model Mazdapspeed 3 is almost 3200 lbs)

Then remember the costs associated with even further limited production. (costs a hell of a lot more per unit to make only 10,000 drive shafts than it does to make 100,000 drive shafts. Of course with the Mazdaspeed 3, you share the costs with the 4 other vehicles using that same Turbo motor... you wouldn't have that option with the RX-8, since the Miata is the only thing remotely close, but doesn't need the Suspension upgrades or the drive line upgrades since it will never be 200hp... well alone 275-300 hp.

Most aftermarket Turbo kits cost $5000 + installation. Most aftermarket Supercharger kits cost between $4000 and $6000 + installation. So that is keeping the weak *** 6 speed or MX-5 based 6 speed (depending on what year you have) and hoping that the rear end and axles can keep up.

Just because the aftermarket half asses it for $5-6K doesn't mean that you can half *** it as a manufacture. People buy a aftermarket Turbo Kit or a Supercharger know they are not going to get 100,000 miles out of the motor and tranny.

so now you have a 3200 lbs Turbo FE (if they could only add 200lbs- which I doubt) and a $40,000 price tag. Very very few are going to buy that. Or you could stay with the same driveline and suspension and just replace them every 60K miles and have the reliability of a FD (which then brings down the sales of all RX cars-including the bread a butter non turbo FE. Hell they have trouble selling a $34,000 FE unless they call it a special or limited edition.

That is why there is not a Turbo FE.

So it sounds like you needed to do your homework before posting....

Blackout04RX

You had a really good post up till this part. The RX7, even with its reliability issues, didnt have sales problems. Just because you have hopes of making your sports car get Honda Civic miles, most people don't really expect that, I sure as hell don't. The vast majority of owners of this car don't even drive it daily. A number of people on here may, but you have to realize that this site is not an accurate display of the entire customer base. A good choice for the car would have been look at the sales on the RX-7, look at the reviews and such from all the big magazines, tv show, etc. and then work on the negatives, borrow the things that had success. Going around to car shows, the RX badge screams powerful, fast car, one to be respected. That is why the 8 is put up against huge competition. It is expected to be so much better performance than it is

Icemark

I guess you missed the whole concept that the FD was discontinued sales in the USA due to pathetic sales. The only reason was bad sales. No other reason..... it was an overly expensive unreliable car that didn't sell ****. In fact in 10 years of production combined, the FD didn't sell as many cars as the first two years of the FC or even the last two years of the FB. Maybe you are just too young too know better if you think it had good sales? It didn't even meet half of the projected sales numbers in the first year, well alone the following years when it was down 75% each year.

It was such a sales flop that Mazda had already started on two different low cost replacements by the end of 1992. One of those replacements became the FE, the other was the RX01.

Lets put it another way to show you how bad of a flop it was... if your company made Laptops, and you headed up the project on a new high end laptop that did everything that the 3 grand laptops did for only 2 grand and your new high end model was expected to sell 30,000 laptops in the first year of production but instead it didn't even sell 14,000 units... you would be out of a job.

The FD was the same way. Mazda probably should have made a non turbo version for $10,000 less and the FD would have probably sold much much better. But then you would have gotten idiots that think that only a Forced induction rotary is the only thing worth owning.

And as far as mileage, Turbo rotary engines get almost identical gas mileage as non turbos. or perhaps you mean the longevity of the car... if so remember that to sell the car in the 5 states the emissions system and engine must last at least 100K miles So your mileage suggestion/argument is just dumb. A modern unmodified car must last 100,000 miles. Like it or not.

I wish that people would do a little research and background on what they are about too say before they post. Again, the FD was the biggest flop in Mazda history, and helped put Mazda into the red that they almost didn't recover from. Luckily Ford and Sumitomo Bank came along and helped them out with money, or we would be driving lame *** Honda's or Toyota's and the rotary engine would be dead.

Guys, you just don't get that there is a reason that the FE comes with a NA engine... cost and reliability. There is a reason that the underpowered Miata is the best selling sports car in the world... yeah there are cars with more power, with more prestige, But it is the whole package. I guess you don't understand that.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

FWIW : I was running my lightly modded 8 at the track against 2 350zs yesterday. On the back straight where I start from about 50 mph and run through to 138mph they get absolutely nothing on me - not even a bumper .

LionZoo

So if you don't think it's price, how do you define the same league? In terms of product development, price determines everything else. I think you'll agree that it's a bit unfair to compare the RX-8 to a Porsche Cayman.

delhi

i wish you would do some simple search before posting. The FD was prematurely killed off from North American shores due to poor reliability and rising value of the Yen which led to poor sale. There were a total of ~13800 sold b/t 93-95. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_R...tion_.28FD.29). In its final year, the FD sale volume was in the triple digit. To put in perspective, there were more Supra TT sold on that year than all FD models. The total 300ZX sold is more than triple that of the FD grand total.
While it continues to be available in Japan, Mazda discontinued it here. It was a great car in its time and era. Same as the Ferrari Dino and E-Type back in its heydays.
Since the rising Yen against the USD applies to these Japanese cars, why is the FD shelf life so short vs the Supra and ZX? Poor reliability of turbo Rotary.
Mazda has let it been known (see Zoom-Zoom magazine) that there will not be another turbo Rotary. Especially when the Renesis achieves similar hp without the complexity of a turbo and its plumbing. 16x is the future.
The RX-8 stacks up very well against its competition. Just trawl the major magazines for comparos. The 8 consistently emerges as the best overall sports car in the bunch. Much like the FD did as well against the Supras, 300ZX etc despite lesser hp on paper. Mazda is very good at crafting balanced driver's car. The miata is a perfect example. The successful sale history is proven.

sales sources can be found in wikipedia and i-supra.com btw.