well, i was driving home on sunday after leaving some dvds back to the rental shop, and had one of the most pleasurable drives ever in my 8.

i mean i had a great big smile on my face as had a few roundabouts to go round, and man can this car handle beautifully. forget all this torque/power stuff, the 8 is so fantastic in corners and country roads.

oh and having sunday roast for dinner just made my day!

 

i think that everyone forgets that the rx8 makes more hp then a 2nd gen turbocharged rx7. and it makes nearly 100 more hp then the N/A 2nd gen. anyone who knows alot about rotary engines would agree that the hp a stock rx8 makes is incredible if you look back at any other N/A rotary motor ever put in a mazda. like i say to anyone who asks. just go to the dealer and test drive an rx8 and you will never look back. it is truly the funnest car ive ever driven, lacking hp or not. when you drive this car it doesn't even matter.

 

homework? its you that needs the homework. failure? BY WHAT STANDARD? I guess by those same standards the jaguar xke was also a failure just because it did not sell millions.the rx7 is a legend is still sought
if i can install fi for less than 6K i think mazda can also.
do YOUR homework.
stock rx8 vs stock 350Z on a road track. yep it is a little faster--so what?
one driver error will allow the 8 to past them and the 8 sure drives easier.
the 8 is not perfect and it can use some advances, but give it the respect it deserves.
When you start modding a car, 6K is not outrageous.
olddragger

 

If you're modding a car, it better be well above 6k before you start complaining about costs...otherwise you're doing it wrong :P

 

hehe!
OD

 

To turbo the 8 would be stupid for Mazda to do. Dont think the 7 was the greatest car ever. People get excited about FI but forget about what the car really is. People hate the 8 because the 7 was FI. People need to rethink the comparisons between the two before they knock the 8. Granted the times are diff and technology is better than the 7 era but some need to lay off discrediting the 8 because it didnt come turbo.

 

I fear the coming of the 09' RX-8 will re-kindle a new wave of 350z vs RX-8 wars...What will happen when the 370z comes out?

 

dont get me wrong ....i didnt say the 8 wasnt good enough ...if 2 rotor renesis could produce 248hp , the technology is definitely awesome ...i didnt say 7 was the greatest ....just , when ppl say the 8 was coming out , ppl were all excepting the 8 to have higher hp ...thats about it ....non the less , the 8 has a great lay out and the hp is just right for it ~

 

When any product was expected to sell 30,000 units and it only sold 14,000 that is a failure.

If you are in the business to make and sell cars, and you sell less than half of what you projected that is a failure (and chances are someone is getting fired- Cough-cough Astek Cough).

That failure means the company looses money on building something that was not right for the market.

That failure means that it takes 8 years to pay for tooling, instead of 2.

That failure means you can't bring out your new product for 10 years because you lost so much on the last one.

I don't care what business you do or are in. If you don't even make half of your expected yearly output or quota, you fail.

Say for example olddragger you work in a restaurant. And each night the restaurant only fills up with 1/2 or 1/3 of the seats filled (say 8 or 10 tables). And yet your business plan, says that you need at least 15 to 20 tables a night to make a profit, pay your employees, pay for the building, and buy more food to make the next night.

How long is that restaurant going to stay open??

Now if Mazda expected too sell 10,000 units a year (and priced and amortized everything at that level) then 14,000 units would be a huge success. But they didn't.

So yes, the FD was a failure. One of the biggest automotive blunders by a Japanese company in the last 30 years. Mazda builds cars to sell and make a profit on. They don't build cars for the good of the world. They didn't build the car as a halo car like the current GT-R or Fords GT-40. They built it with a cheap *** plastic interior to sell 30,000 units a year at $30-40,000. They are in the business of building and selling cars. If they don't sell enough, they go bye bye.

Doesn't mean that the FD wasn't a good car. It was just the wrong car for that time. So Mazda failed to understand the market, they failed to price it correctly, and they put too much into the race car aspect to appeal to the American and European sports car markets. Three big failures.

I wish people would stop putting that failure on a pedestal. It was a good car, but not a great car. It wrecked the idea of a reliable rotary engine in the eyes of a American consumer that the previous RX-7s had made and was priced out of the range of the people that bought affordable sports cars. These people bought Miata's instead (more than half a million last I heard).

Now the SA/FB was a great car, it changed the whole worlds perception of Mazda, and of Rotary engines, and of what a affordable sports car could be.

 

I wasnt quoting your direclty I guess. I was quoting you on the FI application and why the 8 didn't come with it. The rest was just thinking of what the majority of people say about the 8 and why it is weak compared to the 3rd gen boosted 7. My 8 is boosted and it feels alot better. I dont think the car should have came with boosted power though because then all the rice-a-roni guys would buy it and ruin what it is.

 

The same thing that happens now & nothing more. The 370Z will beat the RX8, but they will say the RX8 is still a more defined car (unless Nissan does wonders) and people will go on their merry way & the Z vs RX war will continue.

I currently own a 04 G35 Auto & an 07 RX8 Manual. I love both cars for different things. I love the torque feeling I get when I drive my G, but at the same time, I love driving an RX8 because it is more fun to drive at faster speeds. I love taking corners in the RX8, where when I drive the G I just love to mash the gas and go from a light. I think both cars look amazing & both have their faults.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

You are absolutely right! FD3S was listed as 255bhp stock, my 2004 RX8 was listed as 238bhp the day I bought it (software updates have brought that number down by 6bhp I hear), granted the RX8 is a few pounds heavier than the FD, but give it a turbo and an FD doesn't have a prayer, OR just fine tune it with a Cobb AP and from what I've read, with a great tuner, you can squeeze as much as an extra 45hp (the Canzoomer unit [a glorified Emanage] achieved this, the Cobb should easily be able to do it) out of the MSP! for a total of 277bhp...? the torque still isn't quite there but I'd love to feel how she pulls with those extra ponies!

I do have a question... if you port the exhaust in a 13b MSP (I've hard that porting the renesis wasn't possible from a guy who rebuilds rotaries), how will that affect gas mileage? I know that the various port options on a 13b REW all severely affect gas mileage...

 

^ Do remember our cars are rated under the new SAE standard. the old FDs weren't. Something to keep in mind.

 

oh I see now . You are speaking of the RX 8 as a business product. Strictly profit oriented. That explains a lot and I will actually agree with you. If you look at just RX8 sales then it doesnt look that good. But if you include the RX8 IMPACT then it looks much better It is a mass produced unique car and by that standard it is a success.
Chevrolet lost money on the Corvette for many years and I still dont really know if it is profitable now or not. But it does serve an irreplaceable position in the company. Ditto the RX8.
Olddragger

 

After 5 years, there should be an MS8. If there can be an MS3, MS6, MS Miata (briefly), MS Protege, why no 8?

The 8 is the flagship sports car for Mazda and there should be an MS8.

The MS8 would offer the same performance enhancements that every other MS vehicle offers. It would also put the RX-8 in a better performance comparo against the Z and similar cars.

If Mazda is going to keep the platform, it must be enhanced or it gets stale. Every other manufacturer will refresh the platform in between generations. The 8 has not been refreshed in a meaningful way and it needs to be. Refresh or die.

 

I think the R3 is the closest thing there is going to be to a "MS8"

 

Which is a "mild refresh" (Mazda's own words) and not compelling enough--since the powerplant is unchanged--to keep some people in the fold or attract some new people to the fold. Exactly why I now have a 335i and no longer an 8.

 

How many cars underpowered to a foe and beat that car in a circuit? You people forget what the 8 was intended to be/do. Mazda didn't come with the 8 to be a successor to the 7. Everyone thinks power is what makes a car. This car shines better than most cars and all cars in it's class on a circuit. It's not a 1.4 mile monster but different cars for different tastes. Get over it.

 

There are still folks out there who still thinks the rx-8 is not as good despite the numerous "wins" from the numerous comparos is the reason why we still have cars sporting archaic suspension that dates back to the pioneer days and engines the size of swimming pools as technological marvels.

 

What is the bottom line? Aot of people like there RX8 because of how it handles and the tuned in driver's feel, but the bottom line is a lot of people are some what dissatisfied with it's Horse power there is nothing wrong with that..... Mazda just feel like it doesn't need to keep up with Horse power lets face it even the New maxima has almost 300hp. it is just what it is.
D.

 

Honestly I think the fact that the RX-8 can stay within a second of the 350Z given the large HP and enormous torque difference is incredible. Heck you're basically taking a fancy looking 4 door sedan with a quirky engine against a purebred hardcore sports car. It screams volumes about how incredibly well set up the RX-8's suspension and balance is. I would HOPE the 350Z is faster because it's a lot more purpose built as a sports car, outputs more power, AND costs more. The RX-8 is a 4 door sedan that everybody likes to think is a sports car, just because it looks like one. I've certainly never fooled myself into thinking mines was one.

In a real world drive on less then perfect roads, I haven't had problems keeping up with a 350Z overall; I have two friends that own them, and one of them is a Nismo. And my friend with the Nismo is certainly not a slouch at driving, the guy can DRIVE like a madman. They completely blow me away as expected once the road straightens out, but I have no problem going bumper to bumper with them in the curves, especially if it's a downhill run. And I'm only driving a 4AT version of the 8. It does however require near constant redlining to keep up I will say, much like this Fifth Gear video demonstrated. It really is different and quite an experience to be taking sharp curves at 6500-7000 RPMs.

 

Are you talking about the Corvette because the Corvette suspension is definitely not primitive.

 

The differences in price is hardly noticeable until you start comparing the R3 vs the 350Z GT. And it is to be expected since once you step up to the 350Z GT is when you get the Brembo package & the Rays lightweight wheels. Of course, then there is the Nismo edition, but that's expected once you add the Nismo name.

 

um... doesn't the Corvette still use leaf springs? yeah... primitive sounds like an accurate description to me...

 

Just because it uses leaf springs doesn't mean the technology is primitive. The coil spring isn't significantly more advanced for that matter. It's how you use the springs.