RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

So say you get a new engine. At what point should be following reliability mods get installed?

- Oil Pressure pellet mod
- BHR Ignition upgrade
- REmedy Water Pump
- REmedy thermostat
- BHR Fuel Pump


I can see dealerships giving you trouble if you ask them to make the changes during the engine re-installation (for example handing them the water pump and thermostat to put in rather than your original OEM ones), but then again, it's probably the easiest point, so if your dealer is willing to work with you on them, it makes sense to me.

Granted, the BHR ignition is easy to do yourself, easiest of them all, and also the one most different from OEM in terms of installation, so I doubt I would look to get the dealer to do that one.

I am headed in for another compression test, expecting to fail, and the dealer is a great dealer, so I am thinking I will be supplying some of these for them to just include instead of my OEM parts. The Oil Pressure Pellet will probably require the most amount of discussion with them, but all they would have to do is take a look at the Series 2 for the reason.
Edit: The dealer that will be doing the engine change installed the oil pressure pellet for another member without objection, so there shouldn't be an issue there.

I will also have a filter magnet right from the beginning, no question there.


1: Install at the dealer during engine installation
2: Install as soon as you get home from dealer
3: Install at some point during the engine break-in
4: Install after engine break-in


Any other mods that should happen ASAP for engine reliability that I am missing?

mscamp02

iTrader: (3)

I dont htink it would hurt to install it before the break in period that being said if your dealer is willing to do so without voiding your new engine warranty that is the route I would go

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

If you have a good relationship with your dealer I would say do it when the engine is replaced, but if not soon after returning home. There's no sense waiting longer as reliability upgrades should enhance same from day one.

If you had also listed a larger capacity oil pan I would have said to wait until after break-in for just that component, due to potential metal shavings, but again nothing you have listed benefits from waiting imho.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yup. I didn't think anything did benefit from waiting, or might cause issues with break in, but more a check to see in case there is something I am not thinking of. Looking for someone to play devil's advocate really. Challenge my assumptions to make sure they are accurate


The dealer is quite good, another member had them install the oil pressure pellet already, and they had no problem, just got an answer on that, so it looks like it should be fine for everything from their point of view.


Metal shavings will also be collected through the use of a filter magnet. I should have noted that, and will update.

terch1

iTrader: (2)

I am constantly hearing about the break in period when getting a new engine. I just had a new engine installed by Mazda because of low compression. When I picked up the car I asked the service manager and then the head mechanic about breaking in the engine. After a slight chuckle from both of them they told me there is no such thing. When they put a new engine in they run the car for about an hour and a half. First off they want to make sure there are no leaks. Secondly the car has to recalibrate fuel trims and the eccentric shaft position sensor has to be reset. Other than that I will use the exact terminology that the head mechanic used and that is "the engine is race ready right out of the box". Before I trust anyone on this forum I am going to trust a head mechanic who has worked for Mazda for almost 20 years and has installed literally hundreds of these engines. What he said makes sense. These cars don't want to be driven by grandma. They want to be revved high and pushed to avoid carbon build up. I took a test drive with the head mechanic upon picking up my car. After the test drive he told me no one would have a problem with their engines if they drove like me. Unfortunately I bought the car used with 40,000 miles on it and it was previously owned by an older woman whom most likely didn't drive the car the way it is intended to be driven. So to all my fellow RX8 owners drive the car like you stole it!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Um. Yeah. I agree with you on the driving styles. Anyone that has even been near me can vouch that I don't baby it. That being said, a short break-in period to allow the seals to settle and wear in correctly can not hurt, and will most likely help. A large part of the break in period instructions is that first couple early oil changes to flush out the metallic particles that are ALWAYS generated on a new engine. Proven time and time again.

I'll even cut my first filter open to see how much metal it captured between filter element and paper. That metal means initial wear. On housings, seals, side plates, etc.., and you want the initial wear to be correct.


I do plan on breaking it in over a single weekend. I don't trust myself to break it in over normal work-week driving. Even if I have to drive laps around the highways here, I will do it in 1 weekend.


I should also note that I had my 8 since 8,600 miles, and it was an awesome engine, above average in power and efficiency. It only started failing after my cat clogged at ~53,000 miles, and I am 100% convinced that the cat clogging is what started it, causing damage either through overstressing the seals, localized heat breaking down the oil and wear shooting up, or something along those lines.



But back to the question about reliability mods shall we?

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

A warranty-new (which is actually remanufactured) engine would certainly already be largely broken in and I won't dispute your mechanic, but I would still follow a break-in procedure just because I'm that ****.

Keep in mind that just running the engine is not the same as using it under load.

I'm sure we'll get some add'l insight from the re-build vendors here.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If I was getting the engine rebuilt myself, I would have BHR do it, and probably also pay what is needed to have it specifically broken in on an engine dyno.

terch1

iTrader: (2)

RIWWP. Obviously, I was talking about the revving of the engine and not the inspection of the oil after the first change. The dealer reinforced that I must bring the car back to them for the first oil change so they can inspect the oil and filter for metal shavings. They recommended doing this at 3,000 miles. Good point!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

3,000?

I plan on doing it at 500 miles, 1,000 miles, and then 3,000 miles. Most of the metal is in the first few hundred revs, with a declining volume of metal as the revs go on. I don't want that floating around for 3,000 miles, getting in the seal clearances, grinding between bearings, etc... And an oil change only gets roughly half of the oil out. If I wasn't going to have the filter magnet, I would change the oil at 50, 100, 500, 750, and 1,000.


But then, to borrow Huey's words, I'm **** like that. The magnet should hold the majority of it from floating through, but it's not worth the risk to let it all sit around for 3k. That is a normal oil interval for me.

terch1

iTrader: (2)

I have a drain pan magnet already installed previously. Your right about maybe changing the oil sooner than was recommended to me. I'll do it myself at 1,000 miles and then take it back to the dealer at 3,000.

azzuro

If your dealer is willing to work with you and install the above list of mods, that would be the best scenario (assuming of course that they know how to install anything that's not Mazda!).

If you either don't trust them to do a good job installing the various parts or they won't do it, I guess you're on your own. I can't think of a reason you'd want to hold off on installing reliability centered mods; if you wanted to put a big turbo in that'd be a different story.

Bigbacon

iTrader: (4)

Honestly, most cars always place some kind of break in procedure in the books but almost all the mechanics and even the sales people will tell you not to worry about it. I was told this when I bought my cobalt some years and and with the car I had before that.

Can someone link to this pellet thing or magnet thing?

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

When you think about it, many cars sit on the lot for quite some time prior to sale and are therefore subjected to numerous test drives with no regard for a structured break-in period.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Mazmart Oil Pressure Pellet: http://www.mazmart.com/ItemDetail.aspx?id=586 thread: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/mazmarts-oil-pressure-bypass-install-some-surprising-findings-189899/

Filter Magnet: http://shopfiltermag.com/cart/ymm.ph...el=RX-8+R2+1.3
As an example. Prices range from $40 to $80, generally based on how many magnets are actually in it.

Though you can make your own for half the price with something from here: http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/


I would think it is safe to say that most modern engines don't NEED and engine break-in done on them, and any car with more than a few miles on it is safe to assume it wasn't following a break=in procedure.

But, can following a proper break-in procedure harm the engine?

I don't think so.

So if there is nothing to lose and something to gain, why not? Until someone can point to harm it can do, then even the suggestion of a benefit is enough for me.

byez

Is the water pump,thermostat, or oil pump replaced during an engine replacement?

Just got my engine replaced and I changed the oil at 100km, 1600km, and I will change my oil again at 3200km. Still haven't replaced the oil filter though, I really believe it is quite wasteful to do so at such short intervals.

Been keeping it under 5,000 rpm and haven't gone full throttle and I don't plan to do so until i ht 3200km. Using 4 ounces of a dino 2 stroke per gas tank at the moment. Sohn OMP is going in shortly.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I would wait till you have a few miles under your belt . If there is an issue and you have these aftermarket parts on your car - guess what the Mazda tech will point the finger at .

Also , I can't belive how **** some people on here are about oil changes and break in periods ...

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

^+1

I will add mods to my motor that is going in next week after it is broken in. I think it would best to keep everything the same in the beginning just in case any issues should arise.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Nope. Everything other than the core is re-used, or you have to buy replacements. Even the sparkplugs, coils, wires, even the old fuel hose is re-used unless you buy a new one. Outside the powertrain warranty but within the 100k core warranty, you have to pay for the stuff that can't be re-used but isn't part of the core...like the fluids. Making sure the fuel line is replaced is apparently one of the critical ones that dealers normally miss.

I think that depends on the dealer really. But valid point.


The single point that motivates me for no more than 3k oil changes normally is that it was proven that most oils don't maintain viscosity by around 3k miles. During the initial break in, the higher intervals are mainly to minimize the amount of time any metal shavings and particles are floating around.

SpIcEz

Everyone who has gotten a remaned engine says they come with new water pump, thermostat and gaskets.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Nice 1 year old bump.

I'd be wary of the "Everyone" though, since I haven't seen a single person mention it. Gaskets I agree with, but when I see dealers re-using the old coils, plugs, and wires, I can't see them not re-using new pump and thermostat.

I CAN see dealers reusing old but telling the owner that they got new replacements.

SpIcEz

==========================================
New parts guaranteed...
Rotors and components on the rotor like springs/seals, water pump, oil pan, all rubber/metal seals/gaskets, bearings for stat. gears and rotors
.
50/50 shot of new parts.....
Some housing are new, pulley, flywheel can be used btw but 75% are new roughly, eccentric shaft is usually used but chance of a new one.

Used........
Some housings, pulleys, flywheels, stationary gears are used but with bearings pressed in by yours truely(apperantly I am the only one there that is capable of doing it without messing up), parts in the oil pan(sensor, baffle plate so on), oil pump/chain.


BTW small note, all oil pans are updated to the newer style(metal baffle plate added).
==========================================


https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...7&postcount=12

Straight from the reman engine builder on the line!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm interesting.

Water pump is listed. Not thermostat though, and 2 year old info. Could have changed.

Still on the original engine. My compression kept climbing every time I went to get a compression test, so I finally dropped the issue.