Kevo

cuz you knowz what it iz.

Grungepup

iTrader: (2)

oh.... yeah well.... yeah

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

do. want.

exsequor

iTrader: (1)

For my driving habits, I just double clutch when putting it into first while rolling/etc. Glad you guys confirmed my suspicions about double clutching being a waste of time on the track. That's what I was thinking.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Well, a "waste of time" on the track depends on what is going on.
If you are struggling with (or missing) a down-shift for whatever reason, a DC move might actually be faster.
Its just another technique that you must perfect before you go out there so it doesn't become a distraction.

I occasionally double-clutch a downshift, but it takes no more thought on my part than a regular push-and-pray. It just depends on how the tranny feels that day and how fast the motor is revving up.

8upbad

iTrader: (3)

I have tried it and I feel like it is a good thing to know but I won't use it racing unless it feels right at the time. Right now I'm more concerned with my stock shifter, it does not want to go smoothly into any gear above 5,000 RPM.

ken-x8

Have you tried double clutching?

Ken

8upbad

iTrader: (3)

^,^

Jarred82

That is hilarious!

Kevo

Would that somehow make it more useful and less irrelevant?

ilovemy8

okay so check this out guys question..


i was told(never looked into it) DC was while in a gear shifting to get a bit of boost and get to higher RPM'S QUICKER..

is this called something else?? cause when im racing.. when i used to atleast cuz we all know the 8's take some time to get up in RPM i would hold down my clutch and rev it up 2 like 6 or 7k and dump the clutch and get a boost of power and my RPM's would stay up high..

thats what i thought it was.. but i guess not...

ken-x8

Yeah - my post did come out rather moronic. I meant did double clutching not help your problem when downshifting at high rpm?

I've never raced, and I understand that when you race you do whatever is fastest and least distracting. Driving on the street, though, I've never had much success downshifting at high rpm by just trying to push it into gear. Maybe I'm just too chicken to push it hard enough, but I tend to get into lower gears quicker by double clutching than by letting the synchros do the work.

Ken

Kevo

Ken, you may already know what is below, but for those who don't I thought I would post it.

Just press in the clutch and blip your throttle to match the revs required for the lower gear and let out the clutch at peak revs just before they begin to drop. If you got the revs right it will be smooth as butter. A little practice is all it takes.

That's pretty much it...in the end do what works best for you...if that's double clutching then go ahead and do it. Although there is nothing faster or more efficient than a properly executed heel-toe...it is a thing of beauty. Simply do the above rev matching technique while threshold braking. You can either use your heel (like in the previous videos) or roll the side of your foot onto the accelelerator.

04RX8man

wow....i'm surprised yall didnt tear this guy a new one

Jarred82

wow that is crazy! i had no clue what heel toe was until i watched that video

ken-x8

That's pretty much what I do, except for the extra lift of the clutch midway just before I slip it into gear. I don't let the pedal up all the way for that part, just enough for it to grab and spin up the gearbox.

So for the "rev match, no double clutch" that people talk about, do you put it in gear as you're letting the clutch up, so it's a single clutch motion but the synchros get some help? Or just let the synchros do all of the work of spinning up the gears, with the rev match just connecting the engine smoothly?

I've been heel and toeing and double clutching for over 40 years. (Feet are big enough that I roll the side.) Definitely a thing of beauty...fourth gear becomes third, third becomes second, with a couple of vroom-vrooms, no fore-aft jerk, and ready to hammer it when the corner ends. In my youth the heel-toe part impressed the girls, especially since it helped them notice the size of my feet.

Ken

Kevo

It's really fast so the tranny/engine speed difference is essentially non-existent. I never look at the tach when doing this (mainly because this is how i learned to do it on the track...all on audible cues while keeping your eyes on your line)...anyways, the clutch goes in...on a slight delay, but almost simultaneously the throttle get's blipped and the gear goes in...then right at peak revs the clutch comes out. It's slightly faster than a DC and works just as well with the synchros picking up the slack. My heel-toe is identical to this except I am threshold braking at the exact same time.

Heehee...yeah the ladies see your big feet and think big ????...and then they see how well you use your feet and think how well you can use your ????. LOL

Kevo

I know isn't it!? Now remember these guys have a custom race setup that allows them to essentially slam the gas pedal and get the required revs without any real fuss...I don't suggest being this bruital with your 8!

It is a more delicate procedure especially with throttle-by-wire setups...damn computers like to stick their noses into the process sometimes and not allow the engine to respond the same way every time...depends on other data it is processing. Sometimes (although exceedingly rare) you have to ride the throttle and wait for the revs to come up before you initiate the gear shift. A real PITA as it screws up your rhythm.

bigireland

I've been trying to learn on again/getting frustrated and saying f#$k it off again to heel/toe for years. My foot doesn't rotate like that and when trying to use the side foot technique, I sometimes slip off the brake, which is absolutely terrifying when it happens.. I can rev-match like all hell though..

ken-x8

Not sure if this is a DIY, but there was a post a couple of years ago that might help. On the 8 the metal plate on the throttle has a bunch of holes, and is held on with a couple of screws. Remove the screws, slide the plate to the left one hole, and re-attach.

Or get bigger feet.

Ken

bigireland

Thanks Ken. I'll ask the locals about it. Got a good bunch of guys out this way.

Fencig

To be honest I didn't do heel-toe till I got the 8 and an aussie (visiting the US) told me about it. Since then I've learned (with some pain in the leg) how to do it and love it. I can go into a corner while dropping into the right gear without a worry. I still rev match a bit high at times which mean I lurch forward but that is rare.

Just so you know I've never done DC version. Never even heard of it till I got on this board (but watched my dad do it in the '60s VW bus we had). I've been driving stick for over 22 years and never replaced a trannyor flywheel. I'll hold it on a hill at a red light without using a brake and not smell any clutch burn. However I never drove a car with as much of an RPM band as the 8. If you don't know how to rev match (DC or HT) YOU WILL MESS UP THE TRANNY/CLUTCH. First time I drove my 8 with the person who taught me how to run the gears, she scolded me me for the jerking at each shift up and down. Now she just sits back and enjoys the song of the gears and rotary. (Don't knock the she...I'd put her and her mother against most of the drivers on the non-pro drivers on tracks these days).

Kevo

I can empathize with your frustrations...everybody who has learned heel-toe has been in the same boat. Stick with it and you will be better for it.

Actually, heel-toe on the street is far more difficult to do while keeping the brake pressure spot on since your braking is no where near threshold levels and is far more sensitive as a result. On the track just about every corner is at or near threshold so that makes heel-toe much easier to execute. Although, things come at you much faster on the track so your pedal work needs to be fast and spot on...some times you only have once to get the shift done right...if you miss it you may end up in the grass, gravel trap or even worse...into a wall or barrier