RX-8 Verses 350Z?
11-07-2006, 07:00 AM
#176
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Originally Posted by Raptor2k
ZOMG my e-***** is gigantiker than joors
Now now kids, take it from an old man, the differences aren't worth arguing about. They are both beautiful cars, they both have motors and go forward and backward. They both could get you laid if you weren't arguing all the time. Is there any other worthwhile measurement???
As far as the EVO goes, well, maybe, if you like tattoos and nose rings.
11-07-2006, 07:25 AM
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even if the evo is the fastest car available it's still a lancer just like srt4 thats is also just a neon both of them are just econocars good only for picking up groceries at walmart.
11-07-2006, 08:07 AM
#178
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Originally Posted by rotor_head
even if the evo is the fastest car available it's still a lancer just like srt4 thats is also just a neon both of them are just econocars good only for picking up groceries at walmart.
11-07-2006, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Phantom 4 Door
G35 Coupe...nice car...would have got it if 3 of my good friends dint have it (honestly)...1 question though. You decided to make a name up, post 1000 times on a website for a car you don't even own, and you are calling me insecure? Im not the one going to other websites to defend my car...simply stating my opinion that the evo doesn't look all too good in my eyes, and guess what, Im talking about it on a site that pertains to me. Whereas you choose to spend extra time defending yours on a site that has nothing to do with you.
Maybe it is just me, but why do we have SOOO many people on this forum without an 8? Do they love this car that much that even though they did not purchase it, they have to type RX8 in the address bar everyday to get off??? And if they don't, and chose to come on here to bash it...don't they have anything better to do?
I propose a new term...NonRX8 Fanboi...those who do not own, or have never owned an RX8 but talk smack about it on this website.
I will admit, most of the banter is fun to read tho...maybe that justifies it.
Maybe it is just me, but why do we have SOOO many people on this forum without an 8? Do they love this car that much that even though they did not purchase it, they have to type RX8 in the address bar everyday to get off??? And if they don't, and chose to come on here to bash it...don't they have anything better to do?
I propose a new term...NonRX8 Fanboi...those who do not own, or have never owned an RX8 but talk smack about it on this website.
I will admit, most of the banter is fun to read tho...maybe that justifies it.
11-07-2006, 09:01 AM
#180
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Originally Posted by rotor_head
even if the evo is the fastest car available it's still a lancer just like srt4 thats is also just a neon both of them are just econocars good only for picking up groceries at walmart.
11-07-2006, 09:56 AM
#181
I have attached the Consumer report comparison so you can see for yourself. CR is a well respected out fit and used the same weighing equipment for both cars their conclusion that the 2004 350Z is 260 lbs heavier then the RX-8 is pretty much the end of this debate. Your whole idea that the Z should be weight with less gas and no spare tire because the RX-8 doesn't have them makes no sense. By that same logic we should tear the rear seats out and all the supporting hardware and safety equipment because the 350Z doesnt have a rear set. Also remember that I'm not even looking at the base model of the RX which is even lighter.
Fool yourself if you must but the 350Z is at least 260 lbs heaver period, the proof is attached in black and white(acturally grey but...). Your measurements are based on a modified car with various items removed that you have decided must go to make this a fair comparison, then weight one car on a scale that could or could not be accurate then proclaim the Z is only 170 lbs heavier....please. If you wish to continue arguing this then you are beyond my logic and further discussion is fruitless.
As for autoX the simple fact is the RX-8 shows up in the win column over the Z more then the reverse. It happens enough that variable such as driver's skills, track conditions, track design, ect... will average out and we are left with the basic fact that the RX-8 wins more often then the Z. You can argue this and that but statics don't lie. If the 350Z was the better AutoX car it would be beating the RX constantly over a wide range of races, this is not the case.
I've said what I have to say, enjoy your cars but facts are facts.
Fool yourself if you must but the 350Z is at least 260 lbs heaver period, the proof is attached in black and white(acturally grey but...). Your measurements are based on a modified car with various items removed that you have decided must go to make this a fair comparison, then weight one car on a scale that could or could not be accurate then proclaim the Z is only 170 lbs heavier....please. If you wish to continue arguing this then you are beyond my logic and further discussion is fruitless.
As for autoX the simple fact is the RX-8 shows up in the win column over the Z more then the reverse. It happens enough that variable such as driver's skills, track conditions, track design, ect... will average out and we are left with the basic fact that the RX-8 wins more often then the Z. You can argue this and that but statics don't lie. If the 350Z was the better AutoX car it would be beating the RX constantly over a wide range of races, this is not the case.
I've said what I have to say, enjoy your cars but facts are facts.
Originally Posted by tmak26b
I understand what you are saying about the variables, that's why I listed the CURB WEIGHT of both vehicles this all begun! You are the one who pulled numbers from Motortrend and other reports. Just to be consistent, we will use the curb weight from both 2004 base model RX-8 and 350Z. In the 2004 sales brochure, RX-8 6 spd was listed at 3025lbs. A base 350Z was listed at 318xlbs, let's use the Enthuasist since it has a LSD and cruise, that will put it at 3197lbs. Even at 3197, how is that 200 or even 300lbs over the RX-8? You do the math here. I am saying the difference in weight is not as big as you think because you have to count the spare tire difference and the extra fuel. I wasnt talking about options and all the other junk. The numbers are from the manufacture, not some third party resource or from personal experience (just as a note, the scale i went on was a CAT scale. It is suppose to be good enough to trade)
As far as autox, I was simply trying to tell you why the Z isnt as popular as the RX-8. Both cars are good fun cars, but I dont think it is a safe bet to assume the 8 is faster at the autox just because more of them finish well at hte autox. It would really help if someone actually field a competitive team. At the local events here, the Z can do circles around the RX-8. It doesn't really mean much. Also I hate comparion cars at autox, there are too many variables.
I am not a RX-8 hater. Matter of fact, I think it has a better suspension (not necessarily faster). I just happen to have experiences in both cars.
As far as autox, I was simply trying to tell you why the Z isnt as popular as the RX-8. Both cars are good fun cars, but I dont think it is a safe bet to assume the 8 is faster at the autox just because more of them finish well at hte autox. It would really help if someone actually field a competitive team. At the local events here, the Z can do circles around the RX-8. It doesn't really mean much. Also I hate comparion cars at autox, there are too many variables.
I am not a RX-8 hater. Matter of fact, I think it has a better suspension (not necessarily faster). I just happen to have experiences in both cars.
11-07-2006, 10:17 AM
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raptor75 you are suppsoed to compare base weight to base weight, car manufacturers send cars with various different options to the car magazines for review. Or did CR specify that both cars are the base weight? It could have very well been that Nissan sent a close to fully loaded 350Z while Mazda sent a less optioned out rx8, or vice versa. unless specified so the weight they list is the weight of that particular car with those particular options. I mean just as 350Z can be heavier than the base weight with options, the same can be said of rx8 or any other car. unless specified the CR numbers are just the weight of that particular car with that set of equiptments and options
thats why its best to go with the base curb weight of the manufacturer since all cars have different options availabe.
thats why its best to go with the base curb weight of the manufacturer since all cars have different options availabe.
11-07-2006, 10:24 AM
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thats why automotive information databases such as yahoo auto list the base curb wieght
for 2006 model year,
its 3339 for 350Z, and 3075 for RX8 which is 260 lbs, in line with the CR numbers, its just that this is the proper way to compare weight.
and as tmakb26 have said, previous 350Zs are quite a bit lighter . but as of now the weight difference is around the 260lb mark
for 2006 model year,
its 3339 for 350Z, and 3075 for RX8 which is 260 lbs, in line with the CR numbers, its just that this is the proper way to compare weight.
and as tmakb26 have said, previous 350Zs are quite a bit lighter . but as of now the weight difference is around the 260lb mark
Last edited by playdoh43; 11-07-2006 at 10:28 AM.
11-07-2006, 10:30 AM
#184
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Originally Posted by Phantom 4 Door
G35 Coupe...nice car...would have got it if 3 of my good friends dint have it (honestly)...1 question though. You decided to make a name up, post 1000 times on a website for a car you don't even own, and you are calling me insecure? Im not the one going to other websites to defend my car...simply stating my opinion that the evo doesn't look all too good in my eyes, and guess what, Im talking about it on a site that pertains to me. Whereas you choose to spend extra time defending yours on a site that has nothing to do with you.
Maybe it is just me, but why do we have SOOO many people on this forum without an 8? Do they love this car that much that even though they did not purchase it, they have to type RX8 in the address bar everyday to get off??? And if they don't, and chose to come on here to bash it...don't they have anything better to do?
I propose a new term...NonRX8 Fanboi...those who do not own, or have never owned an RX8 but talk smack about it on this website.
I will admit, most of the banter is fun to read tho...maybe that justifies it.
Maybe it is just me, but why do we have SOOO many people on this forum without an 8? Do they love this car that much that even though they did not purchase it, they have to type RX8 in the address bar everyday to get off??? And if they don't, and chose to come on here to bash it...don't they have anything better to do?
I propose a new term...NonRX8 Fanboi...those who do not own, or have never owned an RX8 but talk smack about it on this website.
I will admit, most of the banter is fun to read tho...maybe that justifies it.
Seriously, this is a forum for ENTHUSIASTS. I joined this site with the intent on learning more about the vehicle that I planned on purchasing. Down the road, I discovered another car that suited me better than the 8 and I decided on getting it. So, does that mean that I have to leave??? NO. Just because I do not own an 8 or plan on purchasing one does not mean that someone like me cannot be a member. If I was constantly bashing it or creating meaningless threads, I would be banned.
11-07-2006, 11:53 AM
#186
Originally Posted by playdoh43
raptor75 you are suppsoed to compare base weight to base weight, car manufacturers send cars with various different options to the car magazines for review. Or did CR specify that both cars are the base weight? It could have very well been that Nissan sent a close to fully loaded 350Z while Mazda sent a less optioned out rx8, or vice versa. unless specified so the weight they list is the weight of that particular car with those particular options. I mean just as 350Z can be heavier than the base weight with options, the same can be said of rx8 or any other car. unless specified the CR numbers are just the weight of that particular car with that set of equiptments and options
thats why its best to go with the base curb weight of the manufacturer since all cars have different options availabe.
thats why its best to go with the base curb weight of the manufacturer since all cars have different options availabe.
Originally Posted by playdoh43
thats why automotive information databases such as yahoo auto list the base curb wieght
for 2006 model year,
its 3339 for 350Z, and 3075 for RX8 which is 260 lbs, in line with the CR numbers, its just that this is the proper way to compare weight.
and as tmakb26 have said, previous 350Zs are quite a bit lighter . but as of now the weight difference is around the 260lb mark
for 2006 model year,
its 3339 for 350Z, and 3075 for RX8 which is 260 lbs, in line with the CR numbers, its just that this is the proper way to compare weight.
and as tmakb26 have said, previous 350Zs are quite a bit lighter . but as of now the weight difference is around the 260lb mark
Last edited by Raptor75; 11-07-2006 at 12:01 PM.
11-07-2006, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by playdoh43
i dont know much about bikes, is Fireblade a type if CBR? this is the first time Ive heard of the Fireblade name, The only honda bikes I know of is the CBR 600RR and CBR1000RR.
11-07-2006, 12:02 PM
#188
i pwn therefore i am
I don't really understand why everyone is so intrested in how each car is going to perform in these extreme cases. My car pwns yours in turn 3 of this one race track in Idaho as long as it's not raining and it's not Thursday!!!!! The 350Z, RX-8, and Evo are very different cars that appeal to different people. People need to quit inventing these random scenarios for when a car will beat another and just go drive.
And by the way, I don't have an RX-8, but I stick around for the free punch.
And by the way, I don't have an RX-8, but I stick around for the free punch.
11-07-2006, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tmak26b
When was the last time you went as I believe they had a change in 2000? I went earlier this year
Next year I'm looking forward to this new track....
http://calabogiemotorsports.com/
...maybe I'll see you there in your 350.
11-07-2006, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by camaro194
Ahh crap...now its time to leave
Seriously, this is a forum for ENTHUSIASTS. I joined this site with the intent on learning more about the vehicle that I planned on purchasing. Down the road, I discovered another car that suited me better than the 8 and I decided on getting it. So, does that mean that I have to leave??? NO. Just because I do not own an 8 or plan on purchasing one does not mean that someone like me cannot be a member. If I was constantly bashing it or creating meaningless threads, I would be banned.
Seriously, this is a forum for ENTHUSIASTS. I joined this site with the intent on learning more about the vehicle that I planned on purchasing. Down the road, I discovered another car that suited me better than the 8 and I decided on getting it. So, does that mean that I have to leave??? NO. Just because I do not own an 8 or plan on purchasing one does not mean that someone like me cannot be a member. If I was constantly bashing it or creating meaningless threads, I would be banned.
11-07-2006, 12:14 PM
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well if the heaviest trim for both cars are similarly equipted then then it indeed is acurate but as a result of luck, not to mention some cars have more options than others, its hard to make a fair comparison that way. i dont see how buying the car vs accept cars from manufacturer have anything to do with it since manufacturers dont send bare bones cars to magazines anyways since weight is not a big deal to begin with. imo if you are going to compare weight then its more fair to compare base wieght due to each car having their own set of various options in each trim. whats wrong with trusting the manufacturer's qouted weight?
11-07-2006, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tmak26b
Retard, that was a MR, not a GSR. 2006 Silver to be exact, so now who is the idiot. http://www.cartct.com/results/08-27-06/082706151.jpg That's a EVO MR
They do dyno roughly the same, put them on a dynojet, they will put out around 235-245. Guess what, the difference in power comes from TORQUE at the low end and the EVO can put a nice jump off the corner with the AWD. 270whp? Yeah from those funky dynos maybe.
Even you said it yourself, the car doesn't make quite as much power at the top as it does in the mid range. When you are doing 7000RPM, how are you going to make more power than the Z when they already dyno within 10hp of each other. You are the one who is tripping over your shoes.
Don't post then, use the time and take the car out on the track and see how different each car is.
They do dyno roughly the same, put them on a dynojet, they will put out around 235-245. Guess what, the difference in power comes from TORQUE at the low end and the EVO can put a nice jump off the corner with the AWD. 270whp? Yeah from those funky dynos maybe.
Even you said it yourself, the car doesn't make quite as much power at the top as it does in the mid range. When you are doing 7000RPM, how are you going to make more power than the Z when they already dyno within 10hp of each other. You are the one who is tripping over your shoes.
Don't post then, use the time and take the car out on the track and see how different each car is.
Now we're back to them making the same power... It must be election day with the way you're waivering on the issues. The Evo IX routinely makes around 260whp on dynojets.
I'm still waiting for your explaination on how the Evo "runs out of gear".
Last edited by Ike; 11-07-2006 at 01:49 PM.
11-07-2006, 01:33 PM
#193
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Originally Posted by rotor_head
even if the evo is the fastest car available it's still a lancer just like srt4 thats is also just a neon both of them are just econocars good only for picking up groceries at walmart.
11-07-2006, 02:00 PM
#194
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Originally Posted by Ike
It's no Crossfire, that's for sure!
11-07-2006, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
I don't really understand why everyone is so intrested in how each car is going to perform in these extreme cases. My car pwns yours in turn 3 of this one race track in Idaho as long as it's not raining and it's not Thursday!!!!! The 350Z, RX-8, and Evo are very different cars that appeal to different people. People need to quit inventing these random scenarios for when a car will beat another and just go drive.
And by the way, I don't have an RX-8, but I stick around for the free punch.
And by the way, I don't have an RX-8, but I stick around for the free punch.
11-07-2006, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Raptor75
CR dose not accept cars from the manufacture, they buy them and the trim level is listed on the attached form, Touring. I am not sure what equipment this includes but seeing that they are comparing it to the heaviest RX trim level the 260 lbs difference is pretty accurate.
But seeing that tmakb26 is talking about the 2004 model year and he states the car was lighter at the time it becomes necessary to look at a rating of the two cars at that time. Based on the CR report there was a 260 lbs weight difference between the two cars back in 2004. These are curb weight numbers measured by them on the same equipment. You are not going to get a better comparison. The Z is plan and simply a heaver car by around 260 lbs.
But seeing that tmakb26 is talking about the 2004 model year and he states the car was lighter at the time it becomes necessary to look at a rating of the two cars at that time. Based on the CR report there was a 260 lbs weight difference between the two cars back in 2004. These are curb weight numbers measured by them on the same equipment. You are not going to get a better comparison. The Z is plan and simply a heaver car by around 260 lbs.
Page 14 http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...8_brochure.pdf
thank you very much.
11-07-2006, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 9291150
Same here, this summer was my first time time lapping there. I usually do the smaller RDT (Rider Development Track), just west of the long track. I'm sure with more time...days, months, I'd improve my time. Pro's were doing 1:20's, mind you on track prepared bikes!
Next year I'm looking forward to this new track....
http://calabogiemotorsports.com/
...maybe I'll see you there in your 350.
Next year I'm looking forward to this new track....
http://calabogiemotorsports.com/
...maybe I'll see you there in your 350.
See you at the track http://www.cartct.com/results/10-02-06/10020635.jpg
11-07-2006, 06:05 PM
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Oh, now you are accusing me of putting random pictures and videos?
Just to prove you wrong again, here it is
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/090106217.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/090106218.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/090106219.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/09010691.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/09010697.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/09010648.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/09010680.jpg
Same track, the two same cars, what are you going to tell me now? I faked everything hahaha.
Oh god, now you think they put out 260? What do you want, 300 next time?
How many times do I have to say this? The EVO is limited by their gears at the top end. Sure they rev to redline, but they accelerate slower than the Z once they get up to a certain speed. Both cars will redline their top gears with no problem, but they will get their at differnet time. If you don't understand how gears work, watch some real racing rather than EVO forums. Go learn how gears work. Here is a classic example, let's assume two NASCAR has the same engine and everything with the exception of gears (let's assume one has a 3.00 rear and the other has a 2.7 4th gear) . What do you think will happen? Are you going to tell me they accelerate the same because they have the same engine. You can have 1000hp, but you have to be able to put it on the ground.
Oh yeah, I also rememeber one more thing. THe EVO runs 4 psi less boost at the top than it is in the mid range.
Just to prove you wrong again, here it is
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/090106217.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/090106218.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/090106219.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/09010691.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/09010697.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/09010648.jpg
http://www.cartct.com/results/09-01-06/09010680.jpg
Same track, the two same cars, what are you going to tell me now? I faked everything hahaha.
Oh god, now you think they put out 260? What do you want, 300 next time?
How many times do I have to say this? The EVO is limited by their gears at the top end. Sure they rev to redline, but they accelerate slower than the Z once they get up to a certain speed. Both cars will redline their top gears with no problem, but they will get their at differnet time. If you don't understand how gears work, watch some real racing rather than EVO forums. Go learn how gears work. Here is a classic example, let's assume two NASCAR has the same engine and everything with the exception of gears (let's assume one has a 3.00 rear and the other has a 2.7 4th gear) . What do you think will happen? Are you going to tell me they accelerate the same because they have the same engine. You can have 1000hp, but you have to be able to put it on the ground.
Oh yeah, I also rememeber one more thing. THe EVO runs 4 psi less boost at the top than it is in the mid range.
Originally Posted by Ike
If that's a MR I stand corrected, it sure doesn't look like it in the video. I see no vortex generator and no MR badging, but the quality is awful so I could be wrong. I'm also trying to figure out how a random pic of an MR at autox proves that the car on the track is an MR. It really doesn't matter though, I found it funny is all, you've already been proven wrong about your stupid statement about MRs.
Now we're back to them making the same power... It must be election day with the way you're waivering on the issues. The Evo IX routinely makes around 260whp on dynojets.
I'm still waiting for your explaination on how the Evo "runs out of gear".
Now we're back to them making the same power... It must be election day with the way you're waivering on the issues. The Evo IX routinely makes around 260whp on dynojets.
I'm still waiting for your explaination on how the Evo "runs out of gear".
11-07-2006, 06:07 PM
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I think this is on an older EVO http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/fe...cc_evo45_z.jpg