Road and Track Article VERY INTERESTING!
12-30-2008, 02:53 PM
#26
Super Moderator
And this old Fart!
03-01-2009, 08:41 AM
#27
Registered
Yeah, too much eating I have heard from a close Mazda source, Mazda are not happy with the cost of failed engines particularly in the US where the previous reman guys stuffed up so many times with owners have engines changed 3 and 4 times.
This guy told me if the new series II RENESIS with the extra lube nozzle for each rotor chamber and the other mods they have done does not halt the number of failed engines they doubt we will see a future at all until alternative energy sources are mainstream.
BTW, the number of engines replaced has topped 50,000 according to him. (about 25%)
This guy told me if the new series II RENESIS with the extra lube nozzle for each rotor chamber and the other mods they have done does not halt the number of failed engines they doubt we will see a future at all until alternative energy sources are mainstream.
BTW, the number of engines replaced has topped 50,000 according to him. (about 25%)
And finally on a 16x side note, I haven't asked the Japanese engineers about it but I asked a few supervisors and there reply was its kept in secret but with the way the economy is now its probably on hold. Part of the reason why the opened our facility was to bring in a engineer from japan to investigate on how to improve the next engine and see why some fail. Depending on how the research goes and how well our reman engines are will have a huge determination on whether there will be anymore rotary engines built in the future, no joke. Like I said when we started our trianer from mazda japan(Yoshii) told us to please do a good job, his job depends on whether we do a good job in both building and investigating since we may determine the future. So nothing really new on the 16x, Mazda is not doing great right now but its doing better then most, its very small compared to other car companies and has survived tough financial times in the past.
03-01-2009, 08:57 AM
#28
That's pretty scary for us rotorheads. I don't think that Mazda will ever give up on the rotary, but it's seeming more and more likely that they will take an extended break from selling production rotaries and only have them in development for a while, like the time between the end of the FD run and the introduction of the 8.
I hate to say it, but the series II 8 may be the last rotary we see for a while. Historically rotary cars are not big money makers and Mazda has lost bucketloads of cash on the FD and the 8. It's hard to see how bringing the 16x to market in this economy would make sense for them, though I hope they do it anyway.
But who knows what the future holds with this economy. The only thing that's certain is that it will recover eventually, and when the smoke clears Mazda may actually be in a very strong position. They've shaken off Ford control and, while they're hurting, they're doing better than most car companies. In a few years they may be in a position to take a gamble on a new rotary. We'll see I guess.
I hate to say it, but the series II 8 may be the last rotary we see for a while. Historically rotary cars are not big money makers and Mazda has lost bucketloads of cash on the FD and the 8. It's hard to see how bringing the 16x to market in this economy would make sense for them, though I hope they do it anyway.
But who knows what the future holds with this economy. The only thing that's certain is that it will recover eventually, and when the smoke clears Mazda may actually be in a very strong position. They've shaken off Ford control and, while they're hurting, they're doing better than most car companies. In a few years they may be in a position to take a gamble on a new rotary. We'll see I guess.
03-01-2009, 09:04 AM
#29
Registered
That's pretty scary for us rotorheads. I don't think that Mazda will ever give up on the rotary, but it's seeming more and more likely that they will take an extended break from selling production rotaries and only have them in development for a while, like the time between the end of the FD run and the introduction of the 8.
03-01-2009, 09:14 AM
#30
Yeah you're right, and the 8 was introduced in Japan in '03, so I guess there wasn't much of a break in selling rotaries in Japan. But whether they stop selling rotaries completely or just restrict them to the domestic market, it's all the same for those of us who don't live in Japan.
03-04-2009, 07:22 PM
#31
Registered
Update from Ashley
Update from Ashley:
I have just come back from talking to my Mazda Parts Manager mate ...
You can't get away from this guy...A quick 10 minute visit, turns into a few Hours!!!...
Anyway, got talking on the RENESIS and Fords Involvement initially.
The Mazda Australia's state service rep told him that Mazda originally wanted a total of SIX oil injection nozzles (as used in the 09's) as engineers where concerned about sealing and longevity based on their 40 years of knowledge.
It has been well documented the "Hurdles" Mazda went through to bring the Evolv into production as the RX-8.
ALL the engineers said the oiling system would give problems in a very short period of time, the Bean Counters (Ford) basically said if you don't sign off on this car now..it won't happen.
So, we all know the outcome.
It appears the Mazda's Rotary Engineers warnings came true.
Michael also said Mazda are losing millions with the world wide rebuilds/replacements.
Remembering that apart from the US/Canada all other distributors are replacing RX-8's with all brand new Japan made RENESIS's out of a crate.
Here once the warranty claims are paid most dealers are Binning/Trashing/Destroying the old engines!..
Trying to save a penny has cost at lot more in the end.
You can't get away from this guy...A quick 10 minute visit, turns into a few Hours!!!...
Anyway, got talking on the RENESIS and Fords Involvement initially.
The Mazda Australia's state service rep told him that Mazda originally wanted a total of SIX oil injection nozzles (as used in the 09's) as engineers where concerned about sealing and longevity based on their 40 years of knowledge.
It has been well documented the "Hurdles" Mazda went through to bring the Evolv into production as the RX-8.
ALL the engineers said the oiling system would give problems in a very short period of time, the Bean Counters (Ford) basically said if you don't sign off on this car now..it won't happen.
So, we all know the outcome.
It appears the Mazda's Rotary Engineers warnings came true.
Michael also said Mazda are losing millions with the world wide rebuilds/replacements.
Remembering that apart from the US/Canada all other distributors are replacing RX-8's with all brand new Japan made RENESIS's out of a crate.
Here once the warranty claims are paid most dealers are Binning/Trashing/Destroying the old engines!..
Trying to save a penny has cost at lot more in the end.
03-04-2009, 07:53 PM
#33
Super Moderator
I have no reason to doubt Michaels sincerity and the MA service rep who has been working for MA for 17 years...
Michael (Parts Manager) for 24 years at one Mazda dealership.
Michael (Parts Manager) for 24 years at one Mazda dealership.
03-04-2009, 08:37 PM
#34
Polish-American Hammarrrr
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Of course Mazda/Ford would never admit to this, but every bit of anecdotal and circumstantial evidence points to this being true.
The only other plausible theory for the 6-nozzle improvement is that Mazda want to use it as something of a real-world test-bed for the 16X down the line.
It's for one of those two reasons that Mazda made the change in the '09+ RENESIS, so take your pick. They didn't do it just because they were bored!
The only other plausible theory for the 6-nozzle improvement is that Mazda want to use it as something of a real-world test-bed for the 16X down the line.
It's for one of those two reasons that Mazda made the change in the '09+ RENESIS, so take your pick. They didn't do it just because they were bored!
03-04-2009, 09:09 PM
#35
03-04-2009, 09:47 PM
#36
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Well, plenty of spare, cheap engines from the recalls for me though, got to be able to build a few good ones out of all the shot ones, pre-mix in the tank, et voila, problem solved.
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