Mazsport Turbo vs Coming M3
03-23-2007, 10:48 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by toxin440
My real question - could my RX8 ever be made to compete with the coming M3 with the Mazsport kit + all the bells and whistles?
I believe Speedsource RX-8 won a few weeks ago in Rolex Series GT, beating out a Porsche GT3 by 22 seconds with essentially a stock engine. I think the victory was largely due to good tire management by the team. The rear heavy Porsche ate through its tires way before the RX-8.
03-23-2007, 11:00 PM
#52
Originally Posted by dynamho
What kind of competition do you have in mind?
I believe Speedsource RX-8 won a few weeks ago in Rolex Series GT, beating out a Porsche GT3 by 22 seconds with essentially a stock engine. I think the victory was largely due to good tire management by the team. The rear heavy Porsche ate through its tires way before the RX-8.
I believe Speedsource RX-8 won a few weeks ago in Rolex Series GT, beating out a Porsche GT3 by 22 seconds with essentially a stock engine. I think the victory was largely due to good tire management by the team. The rear heavy Porsche ate through its tires way before the RX-8.
03-24-2007, 02:25 AM
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Well My Bro got a reserve on the new M3 coming, he is Number 3 (go figure) on the list for the BMW dealer on 57 st. Manhattan. and we goin GERMAN PICK UP! so as soon as he gets it and i drive it i let you know
03-24-2007, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Brettus
Interesting that no-one has mentioned the fact that the rest of the RX8 was not built to handle 400hp .
How long do you think the gearbox , diff , driveshaft , axles , brakes etc are going to last with double the factory hp ripping through them .
There is a certain hp level this car will be reasonably reliable at and it will be a lot less than 400 . So what fun will it be keeping up with a new v8 M3 for two laps only to have your gearbox explode on lap 3 ?
How long do you think the gearbox , diff , driveshaft , axles , brakes etc are going to last with double the factory hp ripping through them .
There is a certain hp level this car will be reasonably reliable at and it will be a lot less than 400 . So what fun will it be keeping up with a new v8 M3 for two laps only to have your gearbox explode on lap 3 ?
The transmission needs very few upgrades to hold massive power (600+whp). The driveshaft..that's stupid. The differential will hold WHATEVER you throw at it, it is a VERY strong unit...Aside from high multiple high-RPM launches, I'm positive it would last for almost-ever.
The axles..chromoly, anyone? Done with those.
The brakes..well, aside from the fact they are already awesome, SS brake lines, a Racing Brake kit, Hawk HPS pads, with Super Blue DOT4 fluid -- I'm sure that will outperform most brakes on the above mentioned cars.
03-24-2007, 07:46 AM
#57
pffft, 15k on turboing a renesis? For half of 15k you could build a monster LS1 (or 6) and have over 400hp stock,probably get close to 25mpg, have infinite parts resources/availability. Sure you might **** off the purists, but just think how much fun you'll have pissing off every non-suspecting wannabe race car in town and all the dorks with the money at the track every weekend. I mean, ****, for about 2-3k you could find a 2nd gen shell (FC), for about 5-6k you could drop an Ls1 or Ls6 in that, spend about another 8-10k for labor/parts, maybe a nice paint job etc. and you'd have yourself a world beater for srt money 
03-24-2007, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dynamho
Brettus, I stand corrected. It seems to be a 3 rotor Renesis.
I haven't read up on this car, but I'm 99% sure it's a 20B engine (like out of the Eunos Cosmo) -- I don't think Mazda or anyone else has developed a 3 rotor Renesis as of yet..
03-24-2007, 08:00 AM
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Exactly ...getting to 400HP is one thing, having it run at 400HP reliably "consistanly" takes effort , money, maitnance, etc.
This will be true with *most* cars making north of 350rwhp on a turbocharged engine.
Someone mentioned about the speed source RX-8... sure there running close or maybe shy tad off of 400 hp....but do you think they just race there Rx-8's and then put them up after a race, then bring them out for another race? I don't think so, Speedsource does alot of overhauling on those components, changing fluids, parts etc.
They changed the fluids a lot because of the massive wear they see in a single outing. Constant high-RPM action = lots of wear + tear = high heat = breaking down of fluids. If they daily drove it, with a little bit of back road and highway action, they could change the fluid as often as we change ours.
I had the fine oppurtunity to watch those cars live at this year Rolex 24 in Daytona, and let me tell you , as hard as those SpeedSource drivers drove those 8's , i barely think they skip out on the maitnance of those cars.
So if a race team has to keep up the maitnace to keep there cars running in optimum spec and they have way more spendabe income than the commomn joe....keeping up an 8 with 400+/- woud be a task.
And it wouldn't be, for a Skyline GT-R or M3? Are you aware of the maintenance costs for one of these cars? The dealer prices are ridiculous, and if you source parts from elsewhere, the prices are equally steep. I could imagine a 400whp RX8 being cheaper to maintain than either of those, any day..
My other buddy has a 200-2006 gen eclipse with the 4 banger , he slapped a turbo, engine management, bottom end , etc.... at 20 psi he is pushing close to 330 WHP. But let me tell you his car is a P.O.S...totaly unreliable, constanly breaking down ,constantly breaking components, always tinkering with it .... He estimated along with his car , mods,he probaly spent cose to 55k bucks....
Your "other buddy" is a moron. First of all, it's constantly breaking down because it is not a good motor. Not to mention being a Mitsubishi, but yeah. If he is constantly breaking down, and breaking components, than he built the car wrong. None of this has anything to do with this discussion, a weak piston engine is NOT a rotary engine..nor are most of the items he is breaking, as he is FWD, we are not.
55k for a turbo setup? Uh..was the car 45k? More than 10,000 dollars for a turbo setup is bar-none ******* RETARDED.
To drive a car that works half of the time. 55k he coud have had plenty of cars that would have given him the same speed experience and woud have peace of mind wondering would his car start or not start in the morning.
Again, your friend's stupidity does not have any meaning here. What does a turbo kit have to do with a car starting in the morning? That's stupid. The only thing that will stop a car from starting is 0 compression or fouled spark plugs / no fuel. You aren't making any sense, bud.
I had a 300ZX TTZ stage IV upgrade in the past , and for the N/A guys we would always tell them , its alot cheaper to sell there N/A Z , then buy yourself a TTZ and go mod happy with it. Turboing any N/A car is a hassle and it takes alot of time , grief , and not to mention alot of money to get where most N/A owners want to be.
Agreed, 100%. However, seeing as their is no Turbo RX8..this is a pointless statement, too.
If i were you i would go and buy the Gt-R twin turbo ,450HP at your disposable and the sky wil be the limit for mods, not to mention ungodly HP gains. Thats if your craving warp speed.... if not and you want a happy medium then opt for the M3.
Buy the GT-R if you have the money to burn. I'm sure it will be a fabulous car, and within a year or so of it's release, will probably have more aftermarket parts available than all the GT-R's of the past put together. Expect to see heavy price tags from companies like Trust, Apex'i, and HKS.
Buy the M3 if you want to waste your money, on an "ok" car. I doubt you would be wanting to daily-drive an M3, however..so why have those back seats? Why not just buy a Porsche 911? It's so much more of a car..
If you don't have this much money, however, I say go full steam ahead with the RX8 turbo. Mazsport kit, I'd personally go with the cheapest one, but either of the air-cooled turbo kits would be fine. Coilovers, sway bars, and if you find a few grand left laying around, get that transmission built to handle the power. If you get it tuned properly, you should have a very reliable, 350+rwhp RX8.
This will be true with *most* cars making north of 350rwhp on a turbocharged engine.
Someone mentioned about the speed source RX-8... sure there running close or maybe shy tad off of 400 hp....but do you think they just race there Rx-8's and then put them up after a race, then bring them out for another race? I don't think so, Speedsource does alot of overhauling on those components, changing fluids, parts etc.
They changed the fluids a lot because of the massive wear they see in a single outing. Constant high-RPM action = lots of wear + tear = high heat = breaking down of fluids. If they daily drove it, with a little bit of back road and highway action, they could change the fluid as often as we change ours.
I had the fine oppurtunity to watch those cars live at this year Rolex 24 in Daytona, and let me tell you , as hard as those SpeedSource drivers drove those 8's , i barely think they skip out on the maitnance of those cars.
So if a race team has to keep up the maitnace to keep there cars running in optimum spec and they have way more spendabe income than the commomn joe....keeping up an 8 with 400+/- woud be a task.
And it wouldn't be, for a Skyline GT-R or M3? Are you aware of the maintenance costs for one of these cars? The dealer prices are ridiculous, and if you source parts from elsewhere, the prices are equally steep. I could imagine a 400whp RX8 being cheaper to maintain than either of those, any day..
My other buddy has a 200-2006 gen eclipse with the 4 banger , he slapped a turbo, engine management, bottom end , etc.... at 20 psi he is pushing close to 330 WHP. But let me tell you his car is a P.O.S...totaly unreliable, constanly breaking down ,constantly breaking components, always tinkering with it .... He estimated along with his car , mods,he probaly spent cose to 55k bucks....
Your "other buddy" is a moron. First of all, it's constantly breaking down because it is not a good motor. Not to mention being a Mitsubishi, but yeah. If he is constantly breaking down, and breaking components, than he built the car wrong. None of this has anything to do with this discussion, a weak piston engine is NOT a rotary engine..nor are most of the items he is breaking, as he is FWD, we are not.
55k for a turbo setup? Uh..was the car 45k? More than 10,000 dollars for a turbo setup is bar-none ******* RETARDED.
To drive a car that works half of the time. 55k he coud have had plenty of cars that would have given him the same speed experience and woud have peace of mind wondering would his car start or not start in the morning.
Again, your friend's stupidity does not have any meaning here. What does a turbo kit have to do with a car starting in the morning? That's stupid. The only thing that will stop a car from starting is 0 compression or fouled spark plugs / no fuel. You aren't making any sense, bud.
I had a 300ZX TTZ stage IV upgrade in the past , and for the N/A guys we would always tell them , its alot cheaper to sell there N/A Z , then buy yourself a TTZ and go mod happy with it. Turboing any N/A car is a hassle and it takes alot of time , grief , and not to mention alot of money to get where most N/A owners want to be.
Agreed, 100%. However, seeing as their is no Turbo RX8..this is a pointless statement, too.
If i were you i would go and buy the Gt-R twin turbo ,450HP at your disposable and the sky wil be the limit for mods, not to mention ungodly HP gains. Thats if your craving warp speed.... if not and you want a happy medium then opt for the M3.
Buy the GT-R if you have the money to burn. I'm sure it will be a fabulous car, and within a year or so of it's release, will probably have more aftermarket parts available than all the GT-R's of the past put together. Expect to see heavy price tags from companies like Trust, Apex'i, and HKS.
Buy the M3 if you want to waste your money, on an "ok" car. I doubt you would be wanting to daily-drive an M3, however..so why have those back seats? Why not just buy a Porsche 911? It's so much more of a car..
If you don't have this much money, however, I say go full steam ahead with the RX8 turbo. Mazsport kit, I'd personally go with the cheapest one, but either of the air-cooled turbo kits would be fine. Coilovers, sway bars, and if you find a few grand left laying around, get that transmission built to handle the power. If you get it tuned properly, you should have a very reliable, 350+rwhp RX8.
03-24-2007, 09:32 AM
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Off topic but I rented a Lotus Elise last week for a couple of days while on Vacation. The car is unbelievable. Especialy for what it can be had for lightly used. Lighter is better. Totally impractical as a commuter car, but I can always dream.
Having taken in a ride in a prototype supercharged Pettit racing RX8 - I thinking I could be extremly happy if Axial FLow SC ever becomes available.
Having taken in a ride in a prototype supercharged Pettit racing RX8 - I thinking I could be extremly happy if Axial FLow SC ever becomes available.
03-24-2007, 10:10 AM
#62
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Originally Posted by AdRoCK3217
I haven't read up on this car, but I'm 99% sure it's a 20B engine (like out of the Eunos Cosmo) -- I don't think Mazda or anyone else has developed a 3 rotor Renesis as of yet..
Ah found it. It was for a different car. http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newssept05.html
Last edited by dynamho; 03-24-2007 at 10:13 AM.
03-24-2007, 12:20 PM
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Ugh, I'm not sure why they can call it the Renesis. The Renesis motor is named as such because of it's exhaust ports being on the side (on the intermediate irons, not on the rotor housings). You didn't see Mazda changing the name of it's motors just because it bumped up the compression produced by the rotors (like how from 1988-1989 the compression went up between the Series 4 and 5 motors). They shouldn't be dubbing this the Renesis 20B..that will cause many skewed ideas..
But yeah, the Speedsource car's probably are using *relatively* stock engines, being that the 20B engine they are using probably doesn't have any porting mods done to it. Most classes rule out porting.
But yeah, the Speedsource car's probably are using *relatively* stock engines, being that the 20B engine they are using probably doesn't have any porting mods done to it. Most classes rule out porting.
03-24-2007, 01:30 PM
#65
Originally Posted by PhotoMunkey
The upcoming Evo X looks mighty tasty too...
03-24-2007, 02:20 PM
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the technology in the Evo's is amazing to say the least, especially with the EvoX on the horizon. Despite all that power in a delicious 4WD setup the fact thats its carries the "young punk boyracer stigma" and is ugly as hell (to me) negates me even looking to purchase one.
Impressing 18 year old ricers and little kids might be fun but its not a car that has the slightest bit of "Class" to phrase it
Impressing 18 year old ricers and little kids might be fun but its not a car that has the slightest bit of "Class" to phrase it
03-24-2007, 04:02 PM
#67
Originally Posted by toxin440
the technology in the Evo's is amazing to say the least, especially with the EvoX on the horizon. Despite all that power in a delicious 4WD setup the fact thats its carries the "young punk boyracer stigma" and is ugly as hell (to me) negates me even looking to purchase one.
Impressing 18 year old ricers and little kids might be fun but its not a car that has the slightest bit of "Class" to phrase it
Impressing 18 year old ricers and little kids might be fun but its not a car that has the slightest bit of "Class" to phrase it
03-24-2007, 05:33 PM
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The evo is the cheapest production performance car imo. If u want cheap perfomance, there isn't anything better. If u want class and performance, look elsewhere. Personally, I rather drive the 8 then an evo. But, I would take a cayman s over the 8 in a heart beat.
The z06 is also a nice choice.
The z06 is also a nice choice.
03-24-2007, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by toxin440
the technology in the Evo's is amazing to say the least, especially with the EvoX on the horizon. Despite all that power in a delicious 4WD setup the fact thats its carries the "young punk boyracer stigma" and is ugly as hell (to me) negates me even looking to purchase one.
Impressing 18 year old ricers and little kids might be fun but its not a car that has the slightest bit of "Class" to phrase it
Impressing 18 year old ricers and little kids might be fun but its not a car that has the slightest bit of "Class" to phrase it
You mean it's not a car for the snobs and badge ****** out there?
Or it's not a car that when you park it in front of a club all the club ***** won't drool over it and wanna come over to you place for an after-hour?
Frankly who cares about badges. The interior isn't great but if you're truly an enthusiast you won't care THAT much. The steering wheel is perfect, that's all that counts for me in an interior.
03-24-2007, 09:23 PM
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Been trying to decide if I should bother chiming in here or not...
I'm pretty into modding cars and have been for years. That said I would NEVER turbo an N/A car that is my daily driver or at least not my only ride, unless I had a lot of disposable income I wanted to flush down the drain. I'd especially not do it with a rotary because of how sensitive they are to heat and detonation. In the long run it will probably be cheaper to get the new M3 or the GT-R once you factor in resale and repair costs.
I'm pretty into modding cars and have been for years. That said I would NEVER turbo an N/A car that is my daily driver or at least not my only ride, unless I had a lot of disposable income I wanted to flush down the drain. I'd especially not do it with a rotary because of how sensitive they are to heat and detonation. In the long run it will probably be cheaper to get the new M3 or the GT-R once you factor in resale and repair costs.
03-25-2007, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
Been trying to decide if I should bother chiming in here or not...
I'm pretty into modding cars and have been for years. That said I would NEVER turbo an N/A car that is my daily driver or at least not my only ride, unless I had a lot of disposable income I wanted to flush down the drain. I'd especially not do it with a rotary because of how sensitive they are to heat and detonation. In the long run it will probably be cheaper to get the new M3 or the GT-R once you factor in resale and repair costs.
I'm pretty into modding cars and have been for years. That said I would NEVER turbo an N/A car that is my daily driver or at least not my only ride, unless I had a lot of disposable income I wanted to flush down the drain. I'd especially not do it with a rotary because of how sensitive they are to heat and detonation. In the long run it will probably be cheaper to get the new M3 or the GT-R once you factor in resale and repair costs.
Yay! Ike is nice!
In reply to Jacques79:
Everyone has their own idea of what they want out of a car, a car just having the most poweful engine, or "a good steering wheel" is going to sell me. I want a well rounded package personally. This factors in interior, performance, looks, and the name (badge) / service that comes with a car. I've been doing tons of thinking on the topic of "my next car" and one of the big thoughts is that I want to take a step up in terms of luxury and performance. Those two things generally don't go hand in hand, but (while I love my RX8 to death) it seems the new M3 would be able to deliver that "total package" I'm looking for.
It's true that no matter what car I got (or even if i Mazsported my RX8) it would have to be my daily driver. I generally have so little time as it is that I'm leaning away from modding the HELL out of my 8. The next year will be very interesting because as it stands right now the two cars that I'm looking at are of course the M3 and the Nissan GT-R.
03-27-2007, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ike
Been trying to decide if I should bother chiming in here or not...
I'm pretty into modding cars and have been for years. That said I would NEVER turbo an N/A car that is my daily driver or at least not my only ride, unless I had a lot of disposable income I wanted to flush down the drain. I'd especially not do it with a rotary because of how sensitive they are to heat and detonation. In the long run it will probably be cheaper to get the new M3 or the GT-R once you factor in resale and repair costs.
I'm pretty into modding cars and have been for years. That said I would NEVER turbo an N/A car that is my daily driver or at least not my only ride, unless I had a lot of disposable income I wanted to flush down the drain. I'd especially not do it with a rotary because of how sensitive they are to heat and detonation. In the long run it will probably be cheaper to get the new M3 or the GT-R once you factor in resale and repair costs.
Realistic power levels + conservative tuning + good maintainance = 100K turbo rotary. How do I know??? Because my FC turbo went 148K on the original engine.