VikingDJ

I blame this site for causing me to get rid of my RX8. j/k. Seriously, I miss my RX8, but I'm glad to see others get to share the joy in this remarkable car. I hope it's better to you then mine was.

Deslock

Congrats on the new car and getting it at such a great price!
Many people dismiss Apple's products as fluff. Here is a retort (those interested in more details, see the footnotes... I did it this way to reduce the length of the post for everyone else):

10 years ago, Apple had a superior interface but their OS wasn't any better than Windows as far as stability and security go. However, that changed with OS X (1).

Apple's "cool" brand-recognition (thanks mostly to the iPod's success) is definitely helping their sales right now. But, Apple's surge that started out a few years ago was due to quality more than anything else. The iPod, while lacking some of its hdd-based competitors' features, was smaller and lighter and had a better interface and easier-to-use computer software (2).

Same goes for OS X, which has taken off at my university. Our computer science department is now mostly OS X and many students and faculty in other departments are switching. The business world still runs on Windows, so most university administrative departments are also Windows and I doubt OS X's share will ever climb to 10%(3).

But OS X offers the best of both worlds: you get the stability and security of Linux and the ease of use of Windows along with Microsoft Office (4). Windows was not designed from the ground up to work in a networked environment, and having the browser embedded in the OS has made it even more susceptible to getting compromised (5).

I encourage anyone who is not dependent on specific business or gaming software to try out a Mac... it having slower CPUs and higher prices are generally overblown as far as disadvantages go (6). It real disadvantages are software compatibility and limited hardware choices since only one company makes Macs (7).

I switched a year ago, though I still use Windows for some work... OS X makes XP painful to use. XP's USB support still sucks (8), its power management and multitasking are a joke (9), its security is a nightmare, installing and uninstalling apps is a PITA, it can deteriorate over time if used *as it was designed* (10), and its interface has fallen way behind (11). Vista will undoubtedly address some of these things, but I think Win32 is inherently broken and needs to be redesigned from scratch (12).

OS X isn't perfect either (I've come across a few bugs), but the difference in quality vs Windows is significant. We've become conditioned to accept software mediocrity when we don't need to.







*******************************************

Footnotes:

1. As was mentioned by another poster, OS X is based on BSD, a flavor of Unix.
2. I've had 12 or 13 MP3 players since the original Rio PMP300 and the iPod nano is my favorite even though some of my other players had removable batteries, FM, voice recording, Ogg/Flac support, built-in webservers, etc. I value the nano's small size and weight, excellent quality, responsiveness (there is no lag whatsoever), and excellent interface over those other features... sometimes less is more.
3. Not while Microsoft is allowed to continue leveraging their monopoly, but that's another discussion.
4. Open Office now makes MS Office less important, but there are still some compatibility issues. Installing Linux today is far less scary than it was 5 years ago, but in general it's still too difficult for gram-ma for a number of reasons (in part because if something does go wrong, it's harder to get support)
5. I was administering computers back when MS first embedded IE into the OS. It made the GUI perform horribly and ended up creating significant security problems. And MS forced the issue by requiring IE to be present in order to install service packs on NT4, which was not cool.
6. Raw CPU speed of Macs has fallen behind, and as a result gaming performance is inferior and encoding video takes longer (compared to most new Windows boxes). However, the OS is snappier than Windows, so this isn't the issue it's made out to be. The price differences are also not as significant as some think. Most people qualify for educational pricing and the 12" iBook has been comparably priced to sub-5-pound Windows notebooks for a couple years. The iMac starts at prices comparable to all-in-one Windows machines. The Mac mini is comparably priced to (or cheaper than) its imitators. And this is vs Windows computers running XP Home when OS X has the features (and then some) of XP Pro.
7. Apple makes some very cool hardware, so this is not huge problem. But, for example, there are no tablets and no sub 4-pound laptops (though rumors has it that will change tomorrow with an announcement of new x86-based iBooks).
8. Win98, Win2k, and WinXP are all temperamental when it comes to mounting portable drives. Even with XP, I occasionally get a BSOD when plugging in a device. To be fair, this has only happened a few times and it was due to 3rd party drivers, but an OS should never be brought to its knees by a hardware driver for a peripheral device.
9. OS X laptops and desktops come out of standby in 1 or 2 seconds *every* time. Windows laptops take 3-5 seconds most of the time but sometimes they take 30-60 seconds for no apparent reason. And once in a great while they don't resume at all. If I cant depend on it, it's useless. Also, OS X starts right up and you can do everything right away. With Windows you have to wait for it to chug along setting up taskbar icons etc. Lastly, even on a lowly iBook, I can have dozens of windows and tabs open in Firefox and Safari, download multiple torrents, encode DIVX or h.264 files, encode MP3s, have large Word and Excel files open, copy files through the network, copy files over multiple USB and firewire drives all while watching a DVD (I know because I tried to see how much I could throw at OS X... the only thing I didn't think of was printing at the same time). In Windows, just scrolling through a webpage sometimes causes DVD playback to stutter! WTF!
10. OS X viruses and spyware: 0. Windows is over-run. Part of it is a market-share issue and eventually someone will create a virus for OS X. But it is fundamentally more secure. As far as installing apps go, with OS X you drag and icon to Applications. To uninstall, simply drag it to trash. No shared DLL conflicts, no bloated registry, etc. OS X does have its own configuration files and what-not (plist files, for example) but it doesn't deteriorate over time like Windows as you add and remove apps.
11. Forget about aesthetics, OS X has functionality like Spotlight, Expose, Dashboard, etc. Some 3rd party apps add file indexing and other OS X features to Windows, but there are 3rd party apps for OS X that take it another step higher (such as the excellent Quicksilver).
12. Not just rewritten from scratch... it needs a total redesign from scratch! Big difference. It's a shame really... Microsoft had an opportunity to do this with NT and CE, but didn't. We'll see how far they go with Vista.

Deslock

I should also add that OS X software compatibility also isn't as much of an issue as people think. As I mentioned before, there are many Windows-only apps in the business world (the lack of MS Access for OS X is a real downside). Virtual PC can be used in a pinch, but it's slow. However, many big companies now use Remote Desktop to run corporate apps through the network (this makes OS X usable since Remote Desktop runs well on it).

As far as consumers go, there are far fewer games and mapping/GPS applications. But there are some games and mapping programs and a plethora of other types of apps (most of which are also of high quality). There are 15-20 million OS X machines out there... a small number compared to Windows machines, but a large enough number for there to be a big developer community. And, most Linux/BSD apps can be run under OS X. I've even found some apps for OS X without a Windows counterpart, such as Handbrake (a free and incredibly easy-to-use one-step DVD to DIVX/h.264 ripper/encoder).

OK, enough rambling about that

Exegeses

Deslock,

I'm a firm believe that Mac users and RX8 users are perpetual evangelists... THOSE ARE THE MOST EXTENSIVE FOOTNOTES I'VE EVER SEEN ON AN EMAIL! I'm with you brother... And this tuesday we will probably worship at the alter of Steve (heaven knows that I "donate" enough money to his cause)...




iKenndac,

That's a NICE mod of a mini... That's something you don't see everyday! It would definitely be interesting to see someone edit in Final Cut Pro using it!

iKenndac

I know, it would! Don't have time though. Maybe later in the year.

You mean, like this? (More info here)

mkaresh

My father loves the RX-8 I encouraged him to buy. Happens to also love the Mac I discouraged him from buying. Maybe I'll only get an RX-8 myself if I get a Mac first?

I'd never thought of this affinity before, but it makes total sense. Very interesting to see all the Mac users here come out of the woodwork. Did anyone realize the similarities before?

Exegeses

Both users "Think Different" I guess...

Astral

kick *** dude! you got the best (and fastest) package!

here's to many happy miles in your 8!

hemanrulez

Wow all these Apple numbers sound so exciting. G3, G4, G5..........

One thing about Mac users is they are nuts, but dedicated nuts. I dont for a second believe anyone who uses a Mac knows anything about computers but oh well they look really cool and change an arm and a leg for it so it must be good.

Having used EVERYTHING for years I will say this again. OS X is nothing but Freebsd with a Fancy Windows Manager (and not a very good one at that too)

I wont even defend Windooze. It has always been crap ever since I have been using it.


Open your eyes people and come into the warm fuzzy free light of Linux.

And Deslock lemme guess you're an engineer?

Astral

good design breeds loyalty

hemanrulez

good design != good computer

iKenndac

If (good design != good computer), then that must also mean (good design != good car). Is that what you're saying??

Krankor

The thing that I love about Windows is... nothing. Unix forever!

alcimedes

Windows is for sheep and gamers.

OSX is for people who just want to use their computers.

Linux is for masochists.

To translate into cars:

Windows = civics and toyotas (with a 350z, BMW or Mustang thrown in for fun). Everyone has one and you can get them cheap if you want to. The gamers are the Mustang types. My block is bigger than yours.

The Mac users = RX8. Might not have the most straight line power, but handles like a dream, and is a lot of fun to drive.

Linux users = 3rd gen RX7. They keep their boxes running forever, and are usually being tweaked on a weekly to monthly basis, but holy crap can they get the job done. They know what every part on the car does, half have been ripped out because they're "dead weight", and the other half are modded or aftermarket. The engine has probably been rebuilt at least twice, but the car now runs better and faster than it ever did new.

RedSheDevil

nice comparison!!!

tiltmode43

iTrader: (15)

Bahaha, windows, as nearly reliable as a Honda Civic?
Recieving my car tonight

Deslock

No, but I do have a degree in engineering. Why did you make that guess?

I prefer OS X... you don't believe that I know anything about computers?

What about OS X makes it a poor windows manager?

We replaced all of our Linux boxes with OS X boxes (lowly Mac Minis at that). They provide the same robustness while being less of a headache.

alcimedes

To be honest, a well run Windows XP box is very stable.

The problem is that most people who use computers know NOTHING about them. They don't take care of them, and then wonder why they fall apart. That or they add piles of cracked out software that they downloaded off the 'net, and wonder why things went to hell.

New Yorker

Funny, but I've had only Macs and yes, I'm thinking of getting an RX-8. But hey, what do I know - I chose Betamax over VHS.

hemanrulez

Exactly. Style over substance never wins baby.

hemanrulez

I've got a Masters in Engineering, I guess we can spot each other out.

hemanrulez

Or it could be that Micro$oft just makes crappy software.

ActiveX = nice pile of crap

Deslock

• A well-maintained XP box *can* run stable, but a well-maintained XP box can also have problems.
• People (at the consumer level) should not have to know anything about computers in order to take care of them or keep them secure.
• An OS should not allow the user to put it at risk without administrator access (and OSs, especially Windows, should not require administrator access as much as they do).
• An OS should not be able to be so easily attacked through an embedded web browser.

Exegeses

The INTEL macs are here!

Now you can have the best of both worlds...

But why anyone would want to boot a Mac with Windows is beyond me...

That's like removing the rotary engine on the RX8 and replacing it with a 4 cylinder...

Labop

iKenndac, that finalcut pro/xserve setup in the car is amazing. Not practical I think, but amazing.

Wish my titanium powerbook still functioned but it was crushed. Mac mini replaced it. Now I'll have to get the macbook pro and put my mini in the 8!

Think of it more like having a scooter in your trunk. You can get out of the real machine (RX-8/OSX) and play with the kids on windows.