imput1234

iTrader: (6)

You are WRONG. Go try it your self, you do not press the button. You have to press and hold the button for about 7 seconds to turn it off.
You press it once stage DSC disables, press it again DSC enables. But you press and hold DSC + TC disables. You will not be able to turn it back on unless you shut the car down.

Mobile

Ha - believe me I have tested, plus I have the literature to back me up. You are mistaken. This is not a multiple stage system. This has been proven through the owners and service manual's text. This is also the reason why you can press the DSC Off button and do donuts all day long - if TCS was still enabled, this would not be possible. It is not possible to have TCS on when DSC is disabled.

Direct quote from the service manual:

"DSC system function contains traction control function"

Now go read your owners manual and flick it to the chapter about DSC. It very clearly states that holding down the button sends the computer into an error condition. This is the reason you have to turn off the car to get it to turn back on. Here is the page your looking for:

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...3&d=1203993988

The squiggly line light is actually called the DSC Indicator light. The one that shows up after you press the DSC off switch is called the DSC Off light. According to the service manual, if you get a DSC indicator light while DSC is off - you have a problem. This is not normal operation. The troubleshooting goes on to list possible shorts in the system or someone holding down the DCS light for more the 5 seconds.

The DSC Indicator light (squiggly lines) is meant to only light when DSC/TC has been activated, it's bizarre to think that when it stays lit (by holding DCS button) that now everything is off. That's what the DSC Off light is for. The DCS indicator light should only come on when DSC/TC is activated.

So you think Mazda designed a DSC/TCS system whereby the DSC Off light tells you that DSC is only part off - and the DSC indicator light that normally tells you when DSC has been activated when the system is on - will also tell you that DSC is fully off if it stays lit - on what planet does that make sense? That's what the DSC Off light is for!

If TC was not disabled after pressing the DSC button, it would be impossible to spin your tires - something that is easy to test - go try it yourself.

Here is the link to the service manual - I'll paypal you $100 if you can find anything in there about a dual stage system.

http://smrmicro.com/rx8servicemanual/

NoRotorNoMotor

I notice no difference w/ it in "DSC off" or the "DSC fully off" mode .... I agree there is no difference. Holding it down is just placebo.
I personally turn it off and back on several times during a drive. I prefer it off for situations when I'm easily in control... but when the speeds get high and trees are nearby... Ummmm I'd rather let the DSC slow me a bit than try and be superman... you never know when your gonna hit some stray gravel / or a puddle.

DaveCM203

It is better to leave it on for normal driving. Especialy in the rain. It can save your ***. DSC is second to seat belts for saving lives. Mine saved my *** once when I went around a blind corner into a pile of gravel that a dump truck lost. I was still all over the place, but there is no way that I would have came out as lucky as I did had it not been for the DSC. The car's DSC can react a lot quicker and more accurately than you ever could. The only point in turning it off is when you want to get sideways or on the track.

imput1234

iTrader: (6)

I'm not going to bother reading your post except for that link. Sorry, but I've tracked, drifted, and autoXed my car dozens of time, I know how to turn of DSC. Unless there are year differences in the model.

In that link of the picture read the side note.




If you dont believe me press the button, go on a wet (safe) environment and floor it and turn your wheel. You will feel the car interrupting. You have to hold the button to make the TCS system stop working.

DSC: Dynamic Stability Control
TCS: Traction Control System

When you turn of traction control, you want to disable the whole TCS.

shaunv74

+1 On public roads the DSC is safer on than off. It will catch the car before you can and brake the specific wheel that is slipping. You can't do that no matter how good you are.

Mobile: As I've said to you in other threads you're wrong. I've tried it on the street in various conditions, tried it on the track around turning circles and cornering exercises, and on Dynos when recording dyno runs. One touch turns off your Stability control and holding it down until the 2nd light stays on turns off your traction control. You can't dyno the car without it completely defeated due to this. Call it error code or whatever you'd like in the manual but that's still what it does.

Anyone else feel like we're debating the interpreting the bible?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

mobile is right the rest of you deserve this

rx8speeddmon

iTrader: (4)

Jeez, I read this thread hoping for some new info... But SOS. Press it once, twice, or ten times, before you slam into me so I will know the correct method to crash a car on the street! Track use: okay, street use: your not nearly as good as you think you are.

mmats69

i say this in every thread so i guess i'll put it here too. leaving it on is a good idea. some insurance companies are now denying repair claims if it is discovered dsc/tc is disabled at the time of the accident.

PerSmitt

No we dont need a chainsaw. We need proof.

Here it is:
http://www.step-hen.com/rx8spec.htm#DSC

There is a video DEMONSTRATING the difference by drivers much better than us. Anyone who still denies it after seeing this are the ones who need a chainsaw.

So Mobile, Brettus, please watch this and learn.

Mobile

imput1234: That side note you told me to read only confirms my point! Bottom line: If I press the DSC Off button, I have no traction control either. I can verify this by spining my tires, and doing donuts. I have done all sorts of testing, and love letting the back end go in the wet. If there was TC, this would not be possible. Are you saying you can't do this? Maybe there is model differences, but it seems bizarre. It really is this simple - if TC was still enabled after pressing the DSC button, it would no be possible to spin the tires. I can spin my tires all day long - no interruptions.

PerSmitt: As far as proof is concerned, I am the one who has provided it in the form of Mazda's own documentation. Show me the proof that TC is a seperate system from DCS and not a subsystem. I don't need to watch a video to tell me when TC intervenes - it's as obvious as ABS when it kicks in. Once I press the DSC Off button, I no longer have TC. My experiences line up with the RX8 documentation, yours do not.

shaunv74: Just to verify, your saying that if you just press the DSC Off button, you can't spin your tires or do donuts at all? I find this very hard to believe. The service manual does not jut refer to error codes, it also clearly states that TC is a subsystem of DCS and both are disabled if you turn off DCS. It is not possible to have TC on when DSC is off.

All of you seem to be avoiding the fact that when you press the DSC Off button, you can spin your tires. If TC was still active, this would not be possible.

Challenge:

I'll setup a video cam and prove that I have no TC once I press the DSC Off button if one of you will do the same and prove that you do have TC after you press the DSC Off button. I'll be showing my tires spinning, and you will be showing TC intervening and bogging the car. Keep the cam's inside the car.

Spinning Sushi

iTrader: (21)

Pull that fuse out, that'll disable the traction control. Problem solved.

JRichter

Mobile, what would be the point of this? So Mazda can't design a simple switch that would not go into an error condition no matter how long you hold it down? This is what is stated in the manual but I was under the impression from previous threads that this is how Mazda worded it to keep people (or the average Joe) from completely defeating the system. I remember it stating something like "the system may malfunction so restart the engine to reset" which to me is saying "You can completely defeat the system but we're not going to tell you how to do it for liability reasons". Some sort of override would have to implemented in case the system did completely malfunction so the car wouldn't be completely disabled for a simple stability control malfunction.

I haven't tested anything in a couple of years but I remember when the button was pressed once I can spin the tires freely but when the cars balance was interrupted (out of control) the DSC (barking to individual wheels to correct the slide) intervened. When the button was held down (defeating everything) I could spin the tires and when pitching the car into a drift, absolutely nothing intervened. No flashing lights, nothing. I've got a severly curbed rashed wheel I can show you to prove my point when I completely lost control of the car on wet roads at around 30mph.

I can believe you, but help me understand.

imput1234

iTrader: (6)

This argument is pointless, maybe there is a model variation. In my first track event, I only pressed the button once, and in turn 7 of the course I spun ( I didn't even go on the clutch and brake) and somehow managed to spin on track and still stay on the track, I was going over 60+. I did not do it, at that time I didn't know what to do as it was my first spin, but the car took control spun and ended up back on track. Thats why I am saying you need to press both. It's been a long time since then, but if its wet out side I normally press the button and drift, and several times when I go at a higher speed DSC does interfere with my drift.
I know when you press the button you can do donuts, figures 8's, and blah. But it does interfear (at least mine does) when going at faster speeds.

Another example: I was doing a tandem with a friend, and I pressed the DSC button for a while and didn't look on the dash (assumed it turned off). In the beginning I did not fee any diffrence, but in the second turn I was going about 50mph, and I felt the car trying to force me back in path

JRichter

In my previous post I had DSC where TSC should have been. It was correct the first time (note my edit note in my original post) but I went back and changed it (after viewing some other threads) then was going to test at lunch (at least the TSC one button push part) to see if I had it right the first time but forgot.

So simply:

!. Press DSC button once to defeat TCS.

2. Hold down button for several seconds to defeat DSC and TCS completely.

3. Restart engine to turn both systems back on.

Mobile

There is no DSC/TC on the base model RX8's so I don't see how liability enters into the equation. It's not like this car is such a handful to drive that they had to make the way to turning it off a secret; especially since you can drive a base model off the lot with none of these systems.

Almost all sports car have the ability to turn off the DSC/TC systems with the touch of a button, and no other manufacturer that I know of 'supposedly' decided to make it into a secret with clues in the owners manual and long hidden procedures. It doesn't make sense.

What you are remembering is opposite of what those on your side of the fence are claiming. Pressing the DSC Off button definitely disabled the DSC, which would allow the car to oversteer - the contention is with the TC systems.

To test. Press the DSC Off button. Try and do a stand still 180 or 360. If either DSC or TC were still enabled, this would not be possible. It is.

imput1234: Try that test as well.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

would if I could but it won't open for me .
BTW that whole thing was written by a aussie member - seeing it is on the net I suppose it must be true

JRichter

It sounds stupid to me too but the fact that Mazda can't make a button that doesn't send the system into an error sounds even more stupid.

The argument would be "But my car's equipped with DSC/TCS, which malfunctioned, so I'm not liable" If you bought a base model you know it's not equipped as this is how it was sold to you so no liability.



Like I stated before I do have it wrong in my post on page 1. I had it right the first time but couldn't remember so searched other related threads and switched it back in anticipation that I was gonna go test it at lunch that day.

For the record:

TCS cuts fuel to the drive wheels in the event of wheel slippage.

DSC applies braking (abs style) to individual wheels in the event of the car spinning

DSC controls YAW whereas TCS controls wheel spin

Mobile

I believe the button is part of the error checking of the DSC system - its the way the circuit was designed - check the service manual link. Do you think Mazda also decided to hide the "really off" secret from the service manual as well as the owners manual? That this secret is so highly protected that not even the dealers and mechanics are allowed to know? Perhaps this cover-up goes right to the very heart of Japan!

Your liability theory doesn't make sense. You know it's off when you press the DSC Off button just the same as if you drove a car off the lot without it in the first place. The button is located in a out-of-the-way place, and a DSC OFF text lights up on your dash. With the DSC Off button just pushed you can spin off the road in the wet just as easily as if you were to hold it down. Mazda has covered it's liability without any of this secret stuff. It would be like forgetting to turn on your lights and hitting someone because you couldn't see - then suing Mazda for not making your lights automatic.

JRichter

A 180 or 360 would be possible with the DSC still enabled as it's smart enough to know the car is not at speed. The fact that TCS is defeated (one touch of the button) means you can spin your tires all day long and if you turn the wheel you will do donuts.

If you attempted to do a 180 at speed (let's say 30 mph) with the TCS defeated only, then the DSC would intervene and does as it senses the car could go completely out of control where as in just a standstill 180 or 360 the car is somewhat stationary.

JRichter

I see where your coming from and I'm no electrical engineer (or a lawyer) so I don't want to argue this fact just throwing up some examples to see the reasoning behind the "error" based on what I've read here in the past.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Question : how many of you who that claim there is a "secret off" button have actually been to the track and done a high speed drift with the DSC off (one push) ?

I have on numerous occasions and felt absolutely no intervention from TC or DSC . In fact I had an encounter with a tyre wall on one occasion to prove it . Car was totally out of control with no majic assitance coming from TC or DSC.

Bad Mazda - how could you let me do that to my 8

JRichter

I would think the service manual would be correct and Mazda would have no reason to hide anything but, I am almost 99% percent sure that with one push of the button (which your saying defeats everything, right?) the DSC still intervened once my car started to spin (not the tires) on some of my recent snow drives. When I held the button, nothing interrupted my spin and I was on my own. Anyone else experience this?

I wish I could try it right now...

PS I can clearly feel the difference between fuel cut (TCS) and individual wheel braking (DSC) on this car.

Mobile

You are mistaken about how your DSC and TC systems are working. The traction control system is what stops your tires from spinning by cutting throttle to the wheels, the DSC system stops the car from starting to yaw. You can test this by pressing the DSC Off button and getting your *** to hang out coming out of a corner. Go try it. You can do that because your DSC is off.

Or you can see if DSC is working by getting up so speed in a parking lot and try to execute a donut or spin at speed - you will be able to with just the DSC Off pressed.

Check TC is off by just trying to spin your tires. Again, something you can do with just a press of the DSC Off button. This is because the DSC Off button disabled both DSC and TC with just a touch. The TC is a component of the DSC - they work as one system - no multiple stages.

Go try this stuff. It's very easy to see when DSC and TC are off.

JRichter

No, no, no...

I clearly said DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) is a YAW control system. TCS (Traction control system) cuts fuel to drive wheels to prevent wheel slippage.

What I'm saying is the DSC (YAW control is smart enough to know when the car is stationary (a standing still state) and you do a donut it won't intervene (the car is not completely out of control) it only works when it senses the car is in signigicant motion (at actual speed)

Note what I posted previously up the page: