Ike

Those are crank figures, it's some weird VW thing to make the "chips" sound more impressive than they really are. With stage 2+ and all the supporting mods guys are seeing between 215 and 225whp.

Ike

Also, some MKV GTI drivers are running mid 14s, thus far it has been MT drivers doing it even though everyone thinks the DSG is faster.

Stavesacre21

Glad to see that you had a fun run with the 8. Heard some good thing about those GTI's. I truely hope you get the better 1/2 of the reliability numbers!

I'm more ford specific, but understand jumping around to whatever suits you best. If anyone seems a lil short, it just simply because its an 8 forum. I'm glad to see you got the car you wanted!

Japan8

Apparantly you can't read between the lines... just proving what I said. You know little about statistics, surveying and analysis.

Try these critiques and criticisms of their research methodology... note that many of these points have been raised HERE by forum members (try searching). These are things that anyone would learn in a research methods class in University. Also note that the RX-8 didn't do well in it's first year review (the same for many new models)... discussed on this forum (try searching).

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html
http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortcomings.php

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/newdots.php

http://archive.salon.com/business/fe.../23/consumers/
http://www.indexinvestor.com/Free/consumerReports.php
http://www.binoculars.com/cr.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/cu.html

LiveToRev

From another 1.8T owner as well, my MkIV GTI was an electronic nightmare; so I second 9291150's comment.

mitchfried

My only hesitation with buying the GLI was the past quality issues. I was willing to take the risk, based upon the fact that this was a different car, engine, and transmission than the previous generation, just as the RX-8 was a different car than the RX-7.

What was the perception (and reality) of the reliability of the RX-7? How many people on this board thought twice about buying the RX-8 because of the flooding issues at the start of production, but took a chance anyway?

So far so good, for my GLI and the manual GLI I got for my son a month later. The only result so far with the reliability issue was that I got a better deal, since others did allow the reputation to become more important than reality and didn't buy, leaving VW eager to deal. I believe that VW knows how bad their rep is, and is trying to make a better product. Same with Mercedes, which has many "black circles" from Consumer Reports because of misbehaving electronic gizmos.

Japan8

^ if you don't mind my asking... invoice? Below invoice?

mitchfried

Both GLI's were leases. I didn't want to be concerned about resale values if the cars turned out to be perceived as lemons. I also leased the RX-8 for the same reason.

The GLI's came out at least 3 or 4 months before the GTI. I understand that when the GTI's came out, it reduced the demand for the GLI, so the prices might be even better on the GLI now. However, I don't think there are nearly as many GLI's available versus the GTI (with the 4 door GTI due soon). The GLI is basically a slightly heavier GTI with a massive trunk (great for subwoofers!!) and identical drive trains.

Japan8

O i c...

I dunno how I feel about the new Jetta's... seem kind fat looking maybe. I'm not a fan of the 4 door GTI or Rabbit. Never have been though. If that was what I'd wanted, I'd get a Mazda3 instead... looks better to me. The 2 door GTI... with the Vortex kit, quad exhaust and 18" rims... it looks quite hot. I particulalrly like the interior of the MkV.

Raptor75

...and you apparently know very little about me. CR is not perfect by any means but is still a good tool that pretty much reflexes real world results. If you have better information to counter my claim provide it or pack it in. Don't mean to be to blunt here but VW's quality sucks and arguing otherwise strikes me as ignorant.

vOc

Before I bought my 8 I owned an '01 Jetta 1.8T. Tornado Red, wolfsberg package...my first new car. Eventually I dropped it, put rims on it, a wing, ACT clutch /w light weight flywheel, APR chip, AEM CA intake and an in dash DVD player.

The car can really move and was a beast at the line and so so at top speeds. With relatively cheap mods, I was seeing great bang for the buck.

In contrast thought:
- 20,000 miles in suffered a carbon build up.
- Windows would constantly drop, the hinges were made of plastic till metal ones were
released.
- O2 sensors were all f'ed, even before modding and had to be replaced all the time.
- Throttle body went bad.
- Ignition Coils had to be replaced.
- Cad went bad.
- Did I mention the O2 sensors?
- After 30,000...creak creak creak in the interior.
- 50,000....time for a new clutch.
- Electronic problems, ASR not functioning...Certain lighting panels working/not working.

**Never had any problems with the stock turbo in the 102,000 miles I drove it, pushing 15PSI for a system that was pushing 5PSI**

I could go on but I'm sure you guys can care less. Point being, I liked the way the car looked and how fast I could make it for relatively cheap but this car wasn't nearly as reliable as I had hoped. Plus the car isn't exactly cheap, I'm sure you could fine something with similar feel/speed for about the same price with more reliability.

The 8 just feels more like a man's car, strong and sporty on the outside and stylish on the inside. Off the line is a little eh, but the overall top speed and cornering put my 1.8T to shame.

Raptor75

The VWs are like FIATs of the 70s. When they are running they are great, the trick is keeping them running. I know three people with newer VWs All of them complain about an array of small and large problems. One guy at work owned a AWD Passat(spelling?) which always had something falling off. He liked the car but admitted that it was a money pit, his misery came to an end when the car set it self on fire through an electrical short, it was totaled.

Dump it before the warranty runs out or better yet get a Subaru.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

I can't believe we have a 5 page thread comparing an 8 to a fwd vw, will the madness ever stop? It's not even a logical comparison, 2 totally different cars with 2 totally different design concepts, I guess we should be comparing the Element to the Prius next or something? Good luck on the veedub, hope it does better than past vws.

alfy28

Here is a site where you can get a idea of exterior customize http://www.dubmodder.com/app/MK5/MK5.php

Japan8

I never said VW's past cars (at least last 10 years or so) weren't full of reliability nightmares. There were also certainly many people who had few issues beyond things like broken switches or a CEL that won't go away too. What I was saying is that VW has recognized a problem and is trying to work on it. The MkV is an entirely new platform... supposedly over-engineered for this market segment... that.. in the case of the GTI... is built in the Germany factory instead of Mexico or Brazil. So far so good... over the past two years in Europe with this model and during the past year with this model in the US. While I doubt that this car is Toyota reliable or that VW will ever seriously compete with them on this level... it is likely to be much better than past generations. The MKIV is an old plaftform that has been around awhile, whereas the MkV has just come out in the US. Until it's been on the road a couple years, it's hard to scientifically say that they are going to be just as bad as past cars.

If the MkV turns out to be unreliable... then it does. Just keep in my that this isn't a Toyota... its more of a poor man's BMW. Neither BMW nor Merceds rack so well with their problems either (all Germans).

As far as CR goes... it's useful... when taken with a grain of salt. It's good for some info, but readers need to be aware of it's short comings and biasis. It's not the Bible and just because they say it doesn't make it accurate nor true.

Raptor75

I agree with you on your observation on all German cars, their quality is in the dumper (as CR has pointed out). As for the current VWs, well I guess I would say past history is the best indicator of future performance. I don't think VW can wake up one morning throw a switch and all is rosy again. At best it will take them years to get to normal quality and at worst they will stay at the bottom of the pile. I may be wrong but until I see anything beside the fact that they introduced a new platform as evidence to there improvement I feel very confident in my current opinion.

CR, I already acknowledged that it is an imperfect study but is still one of the best of the few tools available to rate car's reliability. Additionally I don't think you'll find many who will argue with their over all rating of the car companys. Again unless you can show me something better........