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Here is some data collected from a 20 minute drive before and after movement of the FMIC. Luckily it was 75 degree ambient during both logs so it should be pretty close conditions wise. I was going between aggressive driving and normal driving (on a private closed street).
Overall with the new t-stat and v-mount type setup water temp dropped from 203-212 F to 179-185 F (mostly the t-stat), please ignore the first part of the v-mount line for water temp as the car was simply idling in the driveway without any airflow over the Koyo radiator as I was burping coolant system.
MAT were up a few degrees from the FMIC setup, the biggest notice is in the spikes during boosting. The FMIC did a much better job evening out the temp spikes. I was averaging 140-145 MAT before with the FMIC and I would say around 147-152 MAT with the intercooler laying flat. FYI my mass air housing with MAT sensor is located half way between the UIM and the intercooler.
EDIT: After posting this I went to double check that my MAT sensor was calibrated correctly in Adaptronics and it was reading 145F at startup and the OBD tool was reading 90F. So all of those logs are off by about 55F. I have recalibrated the air temp sensor in adaptronics.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 03-11-2017 at 11:04 AM.
Installed new coils due to getting spark blowout about 6k RPms at 5-6 psi with stock rx8 coils. After installing the new coils the DSC light is now on, I hope that this is due to the battery being disconnected and not coils themselves. I have a 3 port mac valve coming this week so I can hook it up to my wastegate so I can start controlling boost through Adaptroincs. Gonna start putting some power into this thing. Wooooo
I have no idea what that is, but after clearing the CEL and 3 warmup cycles, all of the warning lights are off the dash. With out a doubt the D585's have the car idling smoother, smoother in part and WOT and definitely give the car more grunt everywhere. I also moved the dwell up to 4500 (from 3500 with the RX8 coils).
I have been dealing with misfiring under WOT and boost. The higher the RPMs and boost, the more apparent the problem is. No issues with idling or part throttle conditions. I thought that this was due to the rx8 coils, so I recently switched over to D585 (ACDELCO brand) with LS plug wire ends and harness. The coils seemed better, but not perfect.
I just wired in a 3 port mac valve to control boost, and am getting somewhere near 9 psi (50% duty cycle) from 4k up. I still am getting spark blowout/misfire between 4k RPMs on up. I can see this in my data logs where I will have 10.8 to 11.2 AFRs then when it misfires my AFR shoots over 12 AFR (due to unburned oxygen going by WB sensor). the TPS also goes down due to my lifting. I don't wanna lean it out anymore because I am seeing knock values in the 20s-40s when I lean it out about 11.7. I see 0-1 knock down at 11.0 AFR.
I currently have NGKs that only have maybe 500 miles on um that look to be in ok shape. Even though these have very low miles on um, I ordered some Autolite plugs (heat range 9) where I can close the plug gap down manually to make easier spark for the time being. I have also ordered a new coil/radio condenser for the wiring harness since the wire broke off. I am running out of ideas as to why I am misfiring at such low boost (~9 psi), I wanna eventually run around at 15 psi before upgrading to a nicer turbo (BW 360-366).
My setup is currently NGK plugs for REW (500 miles on um), 8.5mm MSD wires with proper ends (nearly brand new), brand new D585 coils (4500 dwell in Adaptronics), D585 coil harness grounded on engine ground. Other than the new plugs and radio/ignition condenser, I am running out of ideas on why the system seems so weak. At last check I was getting 100 psi in the front rotor and 105 psi in the rear (engine warmed up) with about 500 miles on the motor. Car starts easily. I am hoping this is just some prematurely fouled plugs, but any suggestions will be helpful.
What are you looking for for AFR's in the boosted range?
How much timing are you running?
Are you sure the timing that you think you are running is what you are actually getting at the plugs?
Sounds like tuning issues to me.....and missfires and detonation are really bad....One good ping and you can loose a seal...so go carefully
Thanks for the response. I have put together a data log of one of these events where the car starts breaking up. Right at about 4800 RPMs the car starts to stumble and I lift. I have also included a copy of my timing map that I use, which i think is the stock 13BREW map. I assumed that it would be conservative enough and thats what I went with.
As far as knowing the exact timing I am at. I locked the timing at -5/-20 BTDC in WARI and hooked the timing gun up to the leading front plug wire and saw the white alignment mark on the timing wheel and it was very close to the protruding alignment mark on the front cover. It may have been off a few degrees but I could not align in Adaptroincs because the offset trigger angle was not able to be changed in the software when selecting RX8 Trigger. But since the alignment marks were close,and I assumed the stock rx7 timing map would be conservative, that timing would not be an issue. While I haven't heard any pinging during these events and knock sensor didn't pickup anything, if it were some type of pinging/denotation I guess I could globally remove some timing and see if that helps. How does my timing look? I appreciate your help.
Edit: I found that I had to make a custom trigger in Adaptronics in order to offset the trigger angles. So I changed my trigger to custom and was finally able to align the white mark on the trigger wheel with the white mark on the front cover with the timing locked at -5/-20 BTDC. My overall trigger setting were changed from 41, 31, 21, 11, 1, 171, 161, etc. to 37, 27, 17, 7, etc.
Since rotary ignition timing is foreign to me, I assume that I had to retard the timing 4 degrees in order to align the timing events between the computer and the motor? Am I understanding this correctly?
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 04-04-2017 at 05:33 PM.
I just set mine on my REW swap. My original base timing was about 5* off, firing on the -10* ATDC (further, counter clockwise on the trigger wheel). I believe that I also decrease the master trigger angle which advanced my timing by 5* landing my timing mark on spec. Your timing table looks okay, I ended up scaling new maps from scratch to run 25psi with timing and fuel. I would also check you ignition split table and make sure it is suitable. Also, obviously be very careful. Everytime I've seen an adaptronic act this way it has resulted in a blown motor even without a notably catastrophic event.
I just set mine on my REW swap. My original base timing was about 5* off, firing on the -10* ATDC (further, counter clockwise on the trigger wheel). I believe that I also decrease the master trigger angle which advanced my timing by 5* landing my timing mark on spec. Your timing table looks okay, I ended up scaling new maps from scratch to run 25psi with timing and fuel. I would also check you ignition split table and make sure it is suitable. Also, obviously be very careful. Everytime I've seen an adaptronic act this way it has resulted in a blown motor even without a notably catastrophic event.
Since I re-aligned the trigger wheel in Adaptroincs, I took my car out for some spirited driving this afternoon and I did not have any misfiring/breakup events, no knock values either. I will go up to 10 psi next and see how it all goes. Thanks for the help
Update: I upped the duty cycle to 50, which is around 9 psi, and I consistently got misfires above 6 psi and the motor was breaking up. I installed a new set of autolite 3933 gapped around 0.025 inch and the car really woke up. I did about 5 pulls to 6k, and it was smooth and fast everytime. I hope this is all behind me. It was the first time that when I wound the turbo up that my traction control starting going off. I'm not sure if its that the NGK plugs were fouled, or that closing the gap on the autolite plugs was what did it. I know for sure that at $2.99 each, I'll probably stick with these for these plugs for the foreseeable future.
Have been tuning the car up around 12-14 psi (fluctuates with mac valve), everything is real smooth. As you can see I have had to add a ton of fuel around 5400-5700 and also have been leaning out other parts of the map to bring the actual AFR (red line) in sync with the target AFR (blue line), it a completely different way of tuning that i'm familiar with.
This turbo is okay for now, it is a 15 year old precision T64E which is a 66mm compressor wheel with a undivided .81 a/r housing. As you can see the turbo starts hitting at 4400 RPMs and the wastegate is opening around 5400 RPMs. Car really screams now, not sure how much I will keep cranking the boost up. Based on what i'm reading in adaptronics, at 7000 RPMs and 13 psi, im around 90% duty cycle on the P1 (725cc) and P2 injectors (1000cc) and have yet to activate the secondary injectors (1000cc), the LS2 coils do not seem to be fazed by anything yet, and the 340 lph fuel pump should be good to 600hp. While I am not having any hint of pings or logged knock (I am real conservative on timing), I am not sure how much I will keep turning it up without adding water injection/methanol. I have to figure out how to wire in a speed sensor into adaptronics to set boost control in every gear, because I am blowing the tires off in 1st and 2nd gear when the turbo hits. I'll keep this post updated in case someone out there is going through these same tuning processes with the REW.
Need some advice on turbo selection. I hate this old turbo i'm running, it spools slow like a centrifugal supercharger and probably is really inefficient due to the age of original design.
I am looking at all of theBWS300 series (60-66mm). I see the pros and cons of each. I ported my primary and secondary ports with the medium street port template. I also ported the exhaust ports roughly 33% larger than stock (going from 47mm x 24mm to 50mm x 30mm) Pics attached of both intake and exhaust port.
The exhaust manifold was designed with 2" Sch 40 primaries with a divided T4 flange.
I don't see going any higher than 8,000 RPM, higher than 20 psi, or any higher than 500 RWHP, which makes the S366 probably just a little too much for what I need. The 360-363 maybe just a tad bit too small and will force high boost pressures to see 500 rwhp.
It appears that the S364.5 SXE - Compressor 64.5mm inducer/87mm exducer - Turbine 68mm inducer/76mm exducer with a 1.00 AR Divided T4 Housing (3" v-band) may be the best for my goals.
Any suggestions or recommendations on turbo or housing sizes?
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 04-16-2017 at 12:26 PM.
The new BW 300 series units are nice. they recently went to a 360 deg thrust bearing assembly so it should make it last a lot longer
I used to have the old 366 with an aftermarket billet wheel. I just changed to a 69mm and finished the install yesterday. Had to change the turbine housing as well, as I managed to get it a bit warm and it melted the scroll divider and warped it enough that it touched and took out the bearings
The footprint of the 69mm compressor is the same as the 66 mm one.
All in all...I think they are the best turbos for the money out there. I was looking at a 9180 and for over 3X the money it just didn't make sense
I spent a while selecting mine, mostly sifting through BW airworks SXE sizes. The largest s200 series unit was too small for my taste and the s300's were slightly too big. I wanted a turbo that could run 400-500 HP with flow characteristics like the gt35r on my FD. I ended up with what is the smallest s300 SXE super core and paired exhaust housing. T4 twin scroll helps with the spool in this case. This turbo ramps up 500 rpm later than my FD's but can out flow it by 10lbs per minute. Crazy cheap for what you get with these. I will have full logs soon showing how it performs.
I am looking to be around 400-450 RWHP to begin with, but would like to have a little more room for 500 rwhp when I get meth/WI setup. My main concern is lower EGTs, so I wanna make sure I have enough flow through the turbo.
What ratio turbine are you running .91, 1.0, or 1.1? Did you damage the turbo from excessive EGTs related to the back pressure of the .91 AR housing? (if you ran it).
Lastly, did you ever feel that 366 was too laggy (assuming it wasn't since you are upgrading to the 69).
RMD, please let me know how that 60mm works out for you when you start WOT pulls.
I have an s366 pn#177275 ready to slap on my FD when I decide that I want more power. I have also tuned 3 FD's here in Utah with the same turbo. .91 divided t4. The .91ar for the s300's have plenty of volumetric area to keep EGT's down, especially for a street ported engine in the 400-500hp range. The log I'm looking at has it hitting 10 psi at about 4.5k rpm and 23 psi between 5000-5500 RPM. Im going to hopefully get a 10 psi run on the smaller and newer SXE unit on my 8 tonight. I'll post up what I'm seeing spool at at least to that point.
I have an s366 pn#177275 ready to slap on my FD when I decide that I want more power. I have also tuned 3 FD's here in Utah with the same turbo. .91 divided t4. The .91ar for the s300's have plenty of volumetric area to keep EGT's down, especially for a street ported engine in the 400-500hp range. The log I'm looking at has it hitting 10 psi at about 4.5k rpm and 23 psi between 5000-5500 RPM. Im going to hopefully get a 10 psi run on the smaller and newer SXE unit on my 8 tonight. I'll post up what I'm seeing spool at at least to that point.
I think I have narrowed it down to the 62mm or 63mm SXE models with billet impeller. I probably will be pulling the trigger in the next few weeks.
For the time being I decided to remove the factory rx8 catback, I bought a muffler, a resonator, and I had enough 3" steel tubing from my downpipe to fabricate a straight thru design. I tacked everything up this morning. I added the additional resonator behind the two resonators on the mid-pipe in hope to keep this is quiet as possible. I am gonna sleep on the design and gonna do all the finish welding probably tomorrow. I kept the 3" piping about 0.5" away from the rear axle, which is the area with the worst ground clearance in this current configuration. I measured 5" clearance at this point, should be ok. Canister has plenty of clearance. I would have liked to move it more over to the driver side of the car, but it would have required more bends in the exhaust and I would like to keep it is straight as possible. Perhaps reducing the backpressure will help my turbo spool up quicker.
Update: After I completed the exhaust, I started the car up and let it idle for 15 minutes. After minute 3, I started getting smoke from the exhaust. I thought it was just the residual oil burning off of the mandrel bend tubing I was using, but after awhile I started getting smoke from the engine compartment. I noticed I had oil coming out of the turbine bolts, which dripped onto the rear housing. I then pulled the turbo and had oil in the downpipe and inside of the turbine housing. I run an open crankcase so its impossibly to building any pressure in the motor. The drain was also not clogged as I could easily blow air into the front cover. My guess is after boosting that turbo up to 16 psi the last out that I damaged the 15 year old turbo. In the past, I have always bought turbos that were bigger than needed. So this time I showed restraint and went with the BW S362 (8376) SXE with the 0.91 divided housing. I will update, once I get the new turbo in and installed.
My S362 should be arriving on Thursday this week. When it comes to feeding oil to the turbo, I have heard everything to saying no oil feed restriction, use a -3AN feed line only, to if you run over XXX psi you need a XXX size restrictor.
I understand that a borg warner has an internal restrictor in the center section of the turbo. I am using 20W50 and I see 120 psi on WOT. I have a oil feed flange that has a built in 0.035" restrictor, but I can easily drill that out to whatever I want. Since I am currently running a -4AN feed line, If I drill out the restrictor to 1/8" (.125"), it will simulate a -3AN line (.125"). The last thing I want to do is starve this brand new turbo of oil.
Any suggestions on what I should try to start out with?? I am using a 10AN drain.
My S362 should be arriving on Thursday this week. When it comes to feeding oil to the turbo, I have heard everything to saying no oil feed restriction, use a -3AN feed line only, to if you run over XXX psi you need a XXX size restrictor.
I understand that a borg warner has an internal restrictor in the center section of the turbo. I am using 20W50 and I see 120 psi on WOT. I have a oil feed flange that has a built in 0.035" restrictor, but I can easily drill that out to whatever I want. Since I am currently running a -4AN feed line, If I drill out the restrictor to 1/8" (.125"), it will simulate a -3AN line (.125"). The last thing I want to do is starve this brand new turbo of oil.
Any suggestions on what I should try to start out with?? I am using a 10AN drain.
I think BW says to use a -4AN feed line. Granted the oil pressures are usually a bit lower than that for the diesel applications most of these turbo's are usually used for
The shop usually runs -4 limes with no restrictions at normal REW pressures. I run a -4 with the dry sump presources that are higher than stock and don't have many issues. It does smoke a bit at startup until the oil warms up of I don't keep the revs down
Thanks for the responses. I just got a response from AGP, they stated that I should also run with no restrictor. I will give it a shot, I have my fingers crossed that the 3" v-band welded onto the turbine will be close to a direct fit with my current downpipe... It's getting too hot in Florida to be welding outside.
Edit: just received the turbo, the flange is a different style and sticks out too far to be able to fit the dimensions of the precision turbo. So I now have to order a special flange and redo the down-pipe after I wait another week for the correct flange.... I wish they would have let me know that I had to order their special flange when I got the turbo!
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 05-11-2017 at 07:51 PM.
Thanks for the responses. I just got a response from AGP, they stated that I should also run with no restrictor. I will give it a shot, I have my fingers crossed that the 3" v-band welded onto the turbine will be close to a direct fit with my current downpipe... It's getting too hot in Florida to be welding outside.
Edit: just received the turbo, the flange is a different style and sticks out too far to be able to fit the dimensions of the precision turbo. So I now have to order a special flange and redo the down-pipe after I wait another week for the correct flange.... I wish they would have let me know that I had to order their special flange when I got the turbo!
The turbine housing flange should be able to be machined to a 3" vband. Mine came with the Marmon flange and the turbo shop machined it to a 3" vband no problem.
03-11-2017, 10:20 AM
