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LiveWire's 13B-REW build thread

Old 11-20-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LiveWire View Post
I just realized something, and I probably have some sort of misunderstanding that will clear this up but I figure I should ask before I buy any parts for he swap on T-giving weekend.

My intention is, like many others, to keep The stock gauge cluster working, traction control, power steering, etc. I will probably move to a cable throttle (just preference). From my research it seems like I can simply keep the stock ECU for these functions, use a stand alone system for the 13brew engine utilizing the 13b front cover. Seems good so far.

Can the ECU and EMS need to be wired together to override any CELs or do I just deal with them.

To me, the ECU/PCM is largely a black box. To my understanding, the PCM takes some inputs from the transmission. If I swap out the stock transmission for an FD transmission, will I be unable to keep some of my OEM functions? Say power steering or traction control?
Basically, this is where a lot of people get tripped up. The RX-8's ECU is a required input for every other electronic function in the car, and they are keyed with the internal serial numbers so THAT ECU ID looks for THIS ABS module ID, etc... Remove or disable the ECU and the rest of the stuff won't work right.

Your best bet to have all those other features is to have a different ECU that controls the engine itself. And just interrupt the factory signals. This will produce a lot of warning lights (which is how many swaps end up) without some sort of communication box or change to suppress them all. Adaptronic has a 'piggyback' that functions as a standalone for the Renesis, so perhaps they can adapt that to a 3-rotor engine?
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:30 PM
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Many end up with a Cobb Accessport on the stock ECU to shut off the dash lights...kinda an expensive way to do it...but it works ;-)
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dannobre View Post
Many end up with a Cobb Accessport on the stock ECU to shut off the dash lights...kinda an expensive way to do it...but it works ;-)
I would love to have that option, but I have an S2

For my aftermarket ECU, I was planning on using a microtech lt10c with the X4 ignition module. To account for the extra two injectors per the Xcessive LIM, I would tie two injectors signals together (essentially acting like 1 twice the size?).

I guess I should rephase my final question about using an fd transmission. I am not sure what part of the housing the sensor(s) connect to. Will I be able to obtain a proper signal for my stock ECU from the FD transmission?
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:12 AM
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The ECU doesn't need any signals from the tranny... so you are good. Just the usual reverse and neutral. ..
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:41 AM
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Fantastic.
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:14 PM
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Another thing...you would be much better off using some LS? coils instead of the X4box.....they are prone to failure and just another expense that you don't need by using coils with built in ignitors

My personal preference is the Yukon coils with the built in heat sink
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:44 AM
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Little gold nugget comments like that will end up saving me a lot of hassle. Fantastic x2
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Old 12-08-2014, 12:52 PM
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Well everyone it is an exciting day for me. Today I finished ordering a used 13B-REW block, tranny, and ecu. Low compression, 100 psi and 60 psi. Going to rebuild and port it and then bring it to Slick Motor Sports with a pile of expensive parts to be built. This is a project in the making, I'm guessing 1-2 years.

If one of the mods would like to change the title of this thread to "LiveWire's 13B-REW build thread" and relocate this thread to the appropriate place I would be grateful.

Before I get ahead of myself, where should I think about taking the car to be tuned? I live in NE Ohio.

Carpe diem my friends.
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Old 12-08-2014, 12:53 PM
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I also have the Rx8Performance subframe on the way, as well as higher flow oil coolers and the canister trio for washer fuild, oil catch can, and meth injection.
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by LiveWire View Post
Well everyone it is an exciting day for me. Today I finished ordering a used 13B-REW block, tranny, and ecu. Low compression, 100 psi and 60 psi. Going to rebuild and port it and then bring it to Slick Motor Sports with a pile of expensive parts to be built. This is a project in the making, I'm guessing 1-2 years.

If one of the mods would like to change the title of this thread to "LiveWire's 13B-REW build thread" and relocate this thread to the appropriate place I would be grateful.

Before I get ahead of myself, where should I think about taking the car to be tuned? I live in NE Ohio.

Carpe diem my friends.

Done
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Old 12-08-2014, 04:22 PM
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by LiveWire View Post
I also have the Rx8Performance subframe on the way.


Great part!
I ran this...very nice piece!

Congrats on going REW.
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:12 PM
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Find a 5 speed rx8 tranny, put fd tranny gear in the rx8 tranny and you got a tranny that can hold power. Dznutuk made a thread for that
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MaD666MaX View Post
Find a 5 speed rx8 tranny, put fd tranny gear in the rx8 tranny and you got a tranny that can hold power. Dznutuk made a thread for that

I have one...sitting beside a FD gearbox......I honestly can't see a difference in the gears. They are the same ratio...and it looks identical. Really...doesn't make a lot of sense that Mazda made a weaker set of gears for a tranny they already made.

I will know more end of week when I get them both pulled apart
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:29 PM
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:52 PM
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Ya...read that years ago...not really sure what it means

Will know more soon.
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Old 12-08-2014, 09:30 PM
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If you were on facebook theres a page for rew swaps and lots more infos. Some did the fd/rx8 tranny and it works good
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:55 PM
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That definitely seems like the route to go. Seems no cutting as well, how swell!

Thanks again for the add to the FB swap page Maxime.
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:08 PM
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Not the same ratio, don't know where you got that from. Really, it seems weird that they would make a different transmission for a nutless engine like the renesis? Well they did make a weak one, just like the 6speed is weak. Btw, the starter is the same pattern, I wouldn't use a fx bell, the ppf mounting is not the same on the fd and the rx8, and your shifter won't be in the right place.

Last edited by dznutzuk; 12-09-2014 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:12 PM
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The S2 6 speed is weak? I haven't heard of anyone blowing one up.
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:19 PM
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Don't know anything about the S2
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dznutzuk View Post
Not the same ratio, don't know where you got that from. Really, it seems weird that they would make a different transmission for a nutless engine like the renesis? Well they did make a weak one, just like the 6speed is weak. Btw, the starter is the same pattern, I wouldn't use a fx bell, the ppf mounting is not the same on the fd and the rx8, and your shifter won't be in the right place.
That's the problem I have with this whole topic.....So much conflicting information From what I can tell the Transmission is designated as the R15M-D transmission in the RX-8 Literature that I can find...same as FD??

What are the gear ratios?

The bellhousing is almost identical to the T2 one...it has different starter mounting bolt setup...and casting is slightly different...but other than that it looks the same

The tailshaft is different than the FD tranny...it has the bolts in the correct location to make it bolt on....but other than that...the output shaft etc looks the same

Outwardly the case is identical to the FD tranny...

Going to pull it apart on Friday...and compare....I have both sitting on a bench at the shop
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
The S2 6 speed is weak? I haven't heard of anyone blowing one up.
They seem to be stronger than the S1 but I wouldn't trust it anything above 350rwhp.

I know guys here in Florida that are making 500+ and running 10's in the quarter with a stock FD trans.
Another friend has been running his for 3+ years at 600rwhp with lots of track time.

Can a S2 do that? Really dout it


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Old 12-09-2014, 05:00 PM
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Yeah my buddy ran the 5 speed RX-8 trans on his single Turbo 20B setup, he never had an issue. He did run an FD trans before that and did break it but he didn't blame the trans because it was a used FD trans he had laying around with an unknown history. He was making a conservative 455WHP.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:54 PM
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Back when we were debating this a few years back I asked Ash8 to look into it . He told me all the part numbers for the major components inside the box were the same (Fd trans vs RX8 5speed) . That was good enough for me and so I have run the 5 speed ever since.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:03 PM
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That's basically what I thought.....
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