RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the pointers Team, the coils are from a reputable Canadian supplier and are authentic AEM for sure.

We followed instructions from Shawn. We cut the euro ECU connector off and pinned each of the coil signal wires to the ECU using the appropriate pins as indicated on Shawn's website (replacing/depinning stock rx8 harness coil wires). 1 wire was connected to a 12v switched and the other was grounded to one of the ECU grounding points. The harness then grabs power from the Alternator post which feeds the dual relay's and fuses in the built in box. From there there is a separate ground connection for each rotor housing (I'll have to find out exact grounding location as it may be the same as the Rx8 stock harness housing ground points). The rest of the Rywire sub-harness is just the 4 AEM coil connectors (the connector is undamaged btw, only the coil itself melted). I then have Sakebomb plug wires feeding the 4 spark plugs which are all stock FD rx7 trailing BUR9EQP's (NGK5255) for break-in.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Okay, so 4g ground was pulled to block from battery terminal and the burnt coil has been replaced. Also I was incorrect above, the electrical connector on the coil also saw some damage/melting, so we replaced the connector on the Rywire harness with the one that came with the new coil.

I put about 150kms on the car yesterday since the coil was replaced and it seems to be running a lot better and without issue. Will continue to monitor the coils.

Overall the car seems to be running a lot smoother and the exhaust seems to be burning A LOT cleaner and much less smelly lol. Will continue to put my break-in miles on. Also I forgot my laptop at home before I went to pick the car up so I wasn't able to monitor everything as closely as I would have liked but based on my in-car gauges fuel pressure, vacuum, and AFR's all seamed to be reasonable. Currently not hitting any boost and I have my Rev cut set to 4500 rpm for engine break-in.

Idle is still a bit high at 1800ish rpm, but that is mainly due to me forgetting to bring my laptop along to bring it down.

See a couple video's below:



Gotta love that clean, unlit dash, no lights. Cruise, AC, DSC, ABS all working great with the Adaptronic PNP:

jcbrx8

Jesse, Good deal getting the coil issue sorted! Look forward to some more....lively vids.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Hehehe, yes not the most exciting videos, planning to get the GoPro out for some better videos once I have idle sorted. Hoping to catch some footage of that EFR spooling, because even staying in vacuum it is eargasmic!

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

good job!

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

So the car still seems to run much better with the powerful AEM coils. I have my first remote tuning session with Shawn this evening to nail down a baseline tune with the new equipment, but just wanted to post up about an irregularity I am seeing with oil consumption. This has been happening basically since day 1 with this engine. I'm noticing that I am burning through oil at an alarming rate. I noticed my oil was low on the dipstick, so I topped it up Friday evening while the car was completely cold sitting in the garage. I was away for the weekend so Monday night I drove 100kms (62miles) around the city (mix of freeway, residential, everything) and found that my oil dipstick was close to the low mark again after I was done. My garage floor is completely dry so I know I'm not leaking any of the oil, at least while it's parked hot or cold.

While driving/cruising I don't notice any ridiculous amounts of blue smoke or crazy bad smells, in fact it seems to cruise very smooth. Often when returning to idle I will then notice the smell of rich burning fuel / burning oil and will get some blue/grey smoke coming out the tail pipe. When this happens I definitely notice a weaker sounding idle from the engine/exhaust note and a subdle drop in idle rpm (down to maybe 1500). Often the idle will slowly correct itself and become more stable, or before it gets a chance to I will take off from the light and it will cruise fine again. This does NOT happen at every light or every time I return from cruise to idle RPM.

Things to note:
- Idle on this current version of my tune is sitting higher at around 1700RPM. My ideal target will be 1100rpm. Rev limiter is currently set to ignition cut at 4500rpm.

- I have the factory REW OMP installed. We had it working but decided to snip the power/signal lines to it to see if this was the reason so much oil was getting consumed. Doesn't seem to have changed anything but with power cut to it, is it still possible oil is being pulled into the combustion chamber via OMP? Is it even possible for the OMP to consume that much crank oil even if it were full open all the time??

- Typical AFR's are around 13-13.5 according to my Adaptronic wideband or 12.5-13 according to my AEM UEGO stand alone gauge (reading .5 afr richer than adaptronic).

- There is a definite smell of fuel in my garage when the car has been parked there overnight.

- Plugs have been fouling at an alarming rate as well. I'm on my 3rd set of BUR9EQP's in all 4 positions and the engine now has about 650kms (403miles) on it. This set of plugs I put in fresh with the new coils and they have about 350kms (220miles) on them (see picture below).

Plugs after approx 350kms (220miles). Pulled last night to put a fresh set in for my tuning session with Shawn tonight (these still seemed to be firing fine before I pulled them):




I did do a series of compression tests on the engine prior to getting the new ignition. The numbers certainly came back lower than I would like but from some of the articles I've been reading this can be common on a rebuilt engine and compression should rise as break-in miles are accumulated. Also these numbers are still higher than my still strong running Renesis before I pulled it. Numbers seemed to vary quite a bit from test to test but here were some common results (back-to-back tests):
R1 Test 1: 87, 89, 76
R1 Test 2: 82, 88, 91
R2 Test 1: 95, 91, 96
R2 Test 2: 87, 90, 97

Possible causes for this issue in my mind are:

1) Engine break-in woes. Will improve over break-in mile accumulation.
2) OMP drawing in waaaay to much oil. Is this even possible?
3) Turbo seal is no good. I imagine I would notice more constant smoking or at least more constantly during cruise/higher RPMs.
4) Oil control ring is faulty or not properly seated/installed.

Would love any insight, advice, comments on people thoughts about this.

I will also upload some videos shortly showing in my mind, a strong idle, a weaker idle, and a short clip of cruising.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

As mentioned above; here are some more low quality iphone videos

1. Strong Idle. 1700rpm, most engine stats are shown near the end of the video when I record my laptop.
2. Weak Idle. You can see where the car backfired and splattered oil out the tailpipe onto my garage floor..... you can also hear idle seems to be less stable (more brappy) and producing more smoke. This is also far from the worst it's idled.
3. Cruise. Cruise seems smooth and as I'd expect. Sounds pretty similar to my Greddy Renesis but with way more spooly action at less throttle and lower RPM. Engine exhaust is slightly louder than the Renesis.

strokercharged95gt

I'm sure you have posted all this but what size turbo drain are you using???? Are you running a feed restrictor??? What are you doing for crankcase ventilation????

If any of these 3 isn't performing its job, oil will back into the turbo cartridge and blow into the turbine/down-pipe... I would start there first. I have actually cracked the connection from the down-pipe to mid-pipe and ounces of oil poured out when I ran without a feed restrictor...

Also from what I have seen on break-in and engine compression is that 90% of break-in/normalizing compression seems to happen in the first hour of run time. I have never seen much added compression after the first 100 miles, but I have also only used junk parts .

I don't think a OMP could put that much oil into the housing.

Wouldn't worry about the oil control rings as that's nothing you could check short of pulling the motor completely apart.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Hey Stroker, thanks for the input, I don't believe I have any oil feed restriction in place, it is straight -4 AN fittings from stock RX7 Feed on the top of front plate to the turbo. Here is the manual I found from BW website stating a restrictor is not require for the EFR turbos (http://www.turbos.borgwarner.com/fil...ical_brief.pdf). See Page 36 & 37.

Drain is same thing, AN fitting from turbo to bottom of Rx7 front cover stock drain location (see photo's below).

Crank case ventilation is from oil fill neck to a VTA catch can.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Another little update. Had a remote tuning session with Shawn and things didn't go too well. I originally swapped out my ignition because of this same issue, the new coils definitely have more power but when we try to drop the idle down from 1700 to 1100 here is what we are getting. Vacuum is looking a bit weak (always has, was hoping this would improve with break-in and improved tuning), and literally enough smoke pouring out to fill my garage and smoke up the whole block.

Very weak sounding exhaust, car feel like it is on the verge of stalling, and the exhaust is smoking like a MF. I'm not sure if this is related to the oil buring issue but with the amount of smoke it's hard not to think it is. This is on the brand new fresh BUR9EQP plugs.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I'd be in contact with the turbo suppliers re the oil restrictor. You may have to look both sides of turbo to see if oil is pre or post to eliminate the turbo as the issue. But before that .. have you looked at your plugs for signs of fouling? Also: I wouldn't be using those crappy BUR plugs if I were you ..... I know they are stock rew but In my experience they can be cause of misfires after a very short lifespan.

strokercharged95gt

I was told not to run a restrictor in my turbo and it smoked like crazy.

I even went over Boost Lab and talked to those guys about my issue and they said you don't need a restrictor in your feed line for a BW turbo.

They then asked what my oil pressure was, and I said 110-120 psi at startup and above 3,500 RPMs. They looked shocked and said "You need a restrictor"

I ran a Freelance restrictor every since and see no more than 60 psi now. Has never smoked since.... There is absolutely no downside to reducing oil pressure at the turbo.

I did a quick Google Search and saw something about the max oil pressure for an EFR turbo is 5 bar (72.5 psi),,,

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Just want to make sure you guys saw my update to my previous post: (http://www.turbos.borgwarner.com/fil...ical_brief.pdf). See Page 36 & 37. Doesn't eliminate what you are saying though Stroker. Do you have any info on the restrictor you are using?
Edit: from same document above: "Inlet oil pressure (gage) is recommended to be at least 1bar (15psi) and not more than 4bar (60psi) under all “fully warmed-up” conditions."

I should be meeting up with the engine builder tomorrow to have a look at things and see what he has to say. He has been involved since I first found this issue back in May, but wanted to be certain we had everything in proper worker order before we considered pulling the engine; thats when we noticed some weak spark and swapped to the AEM. Unfortunately that didn't seem to be the issue.

Brett; I'm using the BUR9's strictly for engine break in. Misfiring doesn't seem to be the problem, these plugs were brand new in the crappy idle videos from last night. See my photo in the post above with my plugs after 320kms. Yes they are fouling up quickly those still seemed to operate perfectly fine at 1700rpm idle and cruise up to 4500rpm where my rev limit is, but again I pulled those plugs to put fresh ones in for my tuning session last night. Will use NGK 7420-10 once I start boosting.

strokercharged95gt

What is your idle timing? Whatever it is, I would add 5 to 10 degrees and see if it wakes up. Too low of idle timing will make it seem lethargic... my car likes to idle at 15-16 degrees...

just an idea, these are the things I would try...

also I'm using the freelance adjustable oil restrictor. Install, start car, turn set screw till gauge reads 60 psi, done...

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

That looks like a smaller than -10 drain line. That is pretty small from my experience you want at least a -10

Might want to look at a Turbosmart oil pressure reg for the turbo... it cuts the pressure down to manageable levels even when cold because it is a bypass regulator. Plumbing in the return is a bit of a PIA but I found it stopped the turbo smoking at startup I was getting. I can have up to 160psi with cold oil as I have a high volume dry sump

You also should have a -12 breather or you will get it puking. I used to get mine filling up my catch can in about 20 minutes of track time.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Stroker, looks simple and effective. My current map is has idle timing at 10deg atdc. Looking at Shawns map idle is at 12 deg. I'll try to play around with this. I'm going to disconnect my DP to midpipe and see what I find in the exhaust for oil after the weekend.

Also as a side note I've been chatting with a local guy with a beautiful FD with a very similar setup to mine. Same engine builder (different installer) with an EFR 8374. He does not have any additional oil restrictors installed.


I'm not sure what the line size is off the drain. I know the BW EFR manual above calls for a 3/8"NPT to -8an though. Not trying to argue with experience or anything but a -4an feed line that gets internally restricted with a -8an drain seems logically like it would be plenty of drainage; double the line size... Interesting you would still see an over abundance of oil with less than a -10.

My line from Oil fill neck to catch can is -6an line. Need to check the catch can see what it's level is, it doesn't feel full but I haven't actually opened it up to check yet.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Given the compression numbers provided above:
R1 Test 1: 87, 89, 76
R1 Test 2: 82, 88, 91
R2 Test 1: 95, 91, 96
R2 Test 2: 87, 90, 97

The fouling of the plugs in such a short duration (220miles) and the blackness/color of them:





The poor low RPM idle and the amount of oil being consumed (I know turbo is the most logical place to start looking at this as mentioned above); does anyone believe that this could be a failed internal component? AKA Oil Control Ring?

Or is the culprit most likely two separate scenarios (oil through turbo; poor idle due to tuning issues)? I have basically been ruling out a tuning issue as my assumption is that TunedbyShawn would have no problems with the tuning as it seems like he has tuned many REW's to date with no issue...

strokercharged95gt

Those compression numbers don't seem to be bad enough for the car not to run properly. My car is lower in both chambers and idles fine.

Another thing is your true timing is only as good as how you calibrated your crank sensor and trigger wheel to Adaptronics. I would double check.

My entire 20 years dealing with turbo cars, I have always heard to run a minimum of 10 AN drain line, and 12 AN if you can fit it.

8AN is 0.44" ID = .15 inches squared cross section
10AN is 0.56" ID = .25 inches squared cross section
12AN is 0.69" ID = .37 inches squared cross section

10AN is about 67% larger than a 8AN
12AN is 146% larger than a 8AN

You also have a low mount with a nearly 90 degree bend in the line.

In short, you have a undersized drain with a 90 degree bend that runs nearly horizontal to the ground going into the oil pan. You are also running the large normal feed line (4AN vs 3AN) with oil pressures in the 110-120 psi range (I would suspect). Its a pretty tasty recipe for oil backing up into the cartridge and forcing oil into the down-pipe which would make a nice smoke show (as you describe).

I wouldn't even worry about an oil control ring issue until you have exhausted all other avenues as that would require pulling the motor and disassembly. I am using 30 year old oil control rings on 30 year old irons that were not lapped with just new springs and o-rings and they have never been an issue. Even if you installed a spring backwards, I don't think it would account for the amount of oil being consumed.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Stroker. I must agree after looking things over closely. I think the oil is most likely due to blowby through the turbo. I have one of my vent plugs (there are two) on the oil fill neck capped. I am going to take the cap off the second, or even take the oil fill cap off for a short drive and see if that helps with oil consumption/smoking at all. Currently my catch can on the -6an vent is completely empty, some minor frothy white fluid in the line to it but from a few places I've read my -6an is likely too small of a crank vent.

I'll most likely be getting that Freelance restrictor and as you guys say, will likely need to revisit the turbo drain size.


As far as bad Idle goes, I'm going to do some more troubleshooting but I have a feeling that I may have a sticky/leaky injector. AFR's seem to be okay while trying to tune but that's not the tell all. I'm noticing a raw fuel smell in my garage after the car has been parked and sitting overnight. Also I figured it was because of the return style fuel system; but now that I put more thought and have talked it out; my FP gauge drops to like 10psi after the pump primes. Both FPG's (adaptronic and in-dash stand-alone) are on supply line prior to primary rail. Fuel system is supply line to primary rail, to secondary rail, to FPR, to return. I imagine a drop a a couple PSI is normal but a 30PSI drop...... this should have been more obvious but with the massive overhaul I've done to the car there have been many things to pay attention to.

strokercharged95gt

Yeah that seems way too small for a vent.

I use a 1.5" aluminum CXRacing oil filler neck to a 12AN breather on top.

A small vent will just exacerbate the drain situation with too much pressure in the case. Then drain is too inadequate for the feed. Its a domino effect for sure.

The raw fuel smell is also common for stainless steel braided fuel lines... I have pretty much experience all of these issues

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Ahh good to know. I'll take all the vicarious experience I can get! The fuel pressure drop after pump prime/car shut down; solid indicator of either leaking injector and/or potentially passing FPR?

One other comment about compression numbers. Again, slightly lower than I was hoping for on a freshly build engine, but its possible that with leaking fuel injector we could have a sticky seal situation as well? Anyways, I agree with your comments and my builder has said the same thing, those numbers should idle and run perfectly good, like I said before too my Renesis had 10-15psi less and was still pulling hard, idling perfect, and hot starting without issue.

jcbrx8

I concur that the -6AN vent line is too small. A while back I was experiencing issues related to venting, e.g. popping up of my oil dip stick, when running a -6AN line. I upped my vent game to -10AN..., then ultimately back down to -8AN, which now seems perfect.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

So I pulled my oil fill cap off and had somebody rev the car. There is definitely no vapor visible and no air could be felt coming from oil fill neck. This was neutral revving so minor load on engine. I've uncapped my second AN fitting on oil fill for now to allow twice as much venting, I'll eventually run a line to a second oil catch can (already have one sitting in a box) rather than retrofit everything with a single larger vent line.

Freelance Oil feed regulator was ordered last week with -4AN fittings, should be able to just unthread my current feed line, pop the regulator in place then thread feed line back on to regulator inlet. Oil drain is looking like it is at least a -8. Unfortunately I'm not sure if I will ever be able to get to the drain on the turbo with the engine in place. I'll have to look more at this but unfortunately with the low mount things are TIGHT (I'll get a pic of what I'm looking at on the underside). Hoping with the regulator on the feed side the -8 drain will suffice.

Oil Feed:



Pulled my UIM off and removed my fuel injectors. They have been sent away for cleaning/testing. Hoping to get those back next week. Here is my fuel pressure gauge after pump primes and why I'm thinking it's possible I have a sticking injector:






While in the process of doing so I found another little oversight that most likely explains my low RPM (<1500) idle issues:



Didn't notice this little nipple last time I pulled the UIM off, but it was uncapped so obviously I've had a significant vacuum leak this entire time.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Looks like you are getting on top of things RMrx . Wont be long now

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Anyone have any suggestions on how to get an AN fitting off from directly below? I can't get on it with a wrench because there is too much surrounding it. Going to try and **** around with it later this evening but this is what I'm dealing with. Want to get the female AN fitting of the drain off then I should be able to get the AN adapter out of the CHRA with a socket and replace with a bolt in 5/8" barb style drain.