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These guys act like they are providing an intelligent argument and when I provide a lil bit of **** talking the mods go and edit it. Is this CNN? Or wait I know what it is.....
The Rolex series are all tube frame silhouette cars and have little to do with the cars that they look like. For example in the RX8's the transmission is in the back of the car like how a Corvette is configured. Those types of racecars really can't be used to argue about production vehicles.
Of course they can't be compared to the road cars
He DID try to compare them though, and even in that comparison his argument doesn't hold up.
Originally Posted by LSXREX
Is this CNN? Or wait I know what it is.....
It's the most recent forum that you have lost the ability to participate in...
here's the problem,,, Rx-8 beautiful car great styling interior and chassis set up,,,, under powered engine,,, and they are reliably un-reliable
the only solution for a "cost effective" Rx-8 would be to swap the motor either for an other gen or rotary rew/20b(what seems to be the swap everyone on this form wet dreams of)
but realistically pistons are "the" tried and true platform, whether they are v8's, v6's i6's i4's
rotory engines,,,,, the Renny,,,,,,, they are just novelty motors that allow the driver to reverse over-compensate, other than that they are NOT PRACTICAL
1. weak
2. chugs petrol products like it were the 60's
3. needs engine repair/replaced every 70,000mi/100,000km (fact, so screw your lies)
4. expensive for basic rebuild parts $1500+ not including labor and finding a rotary tech (god forbid you can't figure out how to do it yourself as simple as it is)
positive, they are so easy to rebuild you could re and re in about 2 days if you dick around,,,,,,
but the bonus of doing it yourself still won't offset the cost of parts :/
"hey guy's look how small my engine is!!!!!! I for sure don't have a small *****, If i had a small ***** I would drive something with a large engine but i don't, I drive a 1.3L. hey did you see how small my rotary is!!" - Every Rotory supporter ever
My biggest gripe with any 13b is the lack of torque, which also contributes to their demise, combined with inadequate cooling etc etc.
We squeeze as much as we can outta them which ultimately leads to death, BUT, add more rotors and presto!! U got torque, similar in principle to adding more pistons, u don't have to wring it's neck to get up a hill, god the cosmo 20b in auto was a joy to drive, I woulda been happy with that donk in my rx8, even without the rebuild and turbo I have now.
Now I know I may upset the other 13b members here with these facts, it's not my intention. I've owned enuf 13b's to have some idea of this.
Still, that being said, I'm a true rotary lover thru n thru n I would own a Rene over any piston, I dislike the complicated nature of pistons. If rotors had a quarter of the development by even half the mainstream manufacturers, u may see way more reliable rotors on the road than pistons. That's how I justify it anyway.
I guess I'm lucky and am building my dream car with the engine I have been wanting for a very long time. I never thought I'd be this lucky.
Ohh n yeh, point 4, all the rebuild parts are scandalous!!
Take our OMP for instance, something equivalent from another vehicle of any kind will cost about 80% less.
U look at our rebuild kits, seriously WTF are we paying for??! A few springs n strips of steel, it's bloody rude. But that's wot we are willing to do for this rotary passion.
here's the problem,,, Rx-8 beautiful car great styling interior and chassis set up,,,, under powered engine,,, and they are reliably un-reliable
the only solution for a "cost effective" Rx-8 would be to swap the motor either for an other gen or rotary rew/20b(what seems to be the swap everyone on this form wet dreams of)
but realistically pistons are "the" tried and true platform, whether they are v8's, v6's i6's i4's
rotory engines,,,,, the Renny,,,,,,, they are just novelty motors that allow the driver to reverse over-compensate, other than that they are NOT PRACTICAL
1. weak
2. chugs petrol products like it were the 60's
3. needs engine repair/replaced every 70,000mi/100,000km (fact, so screw your lies)
4. expensive for basic rebuild parts $1500+ not including labor and finding a rotary tech (god forbid you can't figure out how to do it yourself as simple as it is)
positive, they are so easy to rebuild you could re and re in about 2 days if you dick around,,,,,,
but the bonus of doing it yourself still won't offset the cost of parts :/
"hey guy's look how small my engine is!!!!!! I for sure don't have a small *****, If i had a small ***** I would drive something with a large engine but i don't, I drive a 1.3L. hey did you see how small my rotary is!!" - Every Rotory supporter ever
Relevant points to a degree.
But I will always insist that swapping a piston engine into the 8 does not make it better, and I will always disagree with anyone who says they can make it better unless they can prove it.
And fwiw, more torque, HP, and faster 1/4 mile times do not equate 'better' in my mind.
It's the total package.
I guess it's an agree to disagree situation.
Btw, I've owned 3 vehicles with V8s, 3 with 4 cylinders, 1 with a V6, and 1 straight 6, and this is by far my favorite.
Cajun I gotta say it is def a concern of mine that I'm gonna lose the amazing way this cornered with the 100kg heavier engine. These cars are amazing, with good suspension n tyres and the right alignment u can just whip em about in any situation.
Anyways, I am doing everything I can to minimize the impact so time will tell. At the end of the day I can always try correct the issues I encounter. It'll be worth the sacrifice I recon.
I really wanted to hold back but here it goes. When first coming to the rotary powered cars I was told the engine had to be treated differently than a piston. Warm up the car before driving, warm up and rev before shutting off. Check and add oil every gas fill up if needed. Then I came to this forum and learned more like cleaning of certain engine components, changing coils for better ones, and pretty much keep up with the car. Now if you keep whining about how unreliable the renesis is maybe you were not told as I was and maybe you didn't do your homework and read up on threads to keep your car in tip top shape. Or maybe your just a cheap and lazy punk who doesn't take care of his car and wants everything easy and handed to. I personally love to take care of my cars, wax them, wash them, change tires, brakes etc. I'm not a mechanic but did my homework and do my own maintenance. I beat the Jesus out of the renny driving it back and forth to Mexico on long trips, raced a few times, and even had it in hot humid climates, Cancun to be exact for six months at a time and west Texas were I live. 144,000 or more miles out of my first 8. It didn't give out on compression, I burned the damn engine hauling butt down to Mexico one day and had the radiator nipple crumble and let enough of the antifreeze out that overheated and I burned the inner and outer water seals. Sad but I had fun in the damn car and they way I kept up with it I received complements all the time. I am now on my 20b build for more power, and loving my first Renny so much, I kept it rotary. Don't come whining about reliability when you know what it takes to keep the engine healthy but either are too cheap or lazy to do it. Am I exaggerating? No, why? Go buy a new c7 corvette or any other performance car and treat it like you do your Renny and see how long it lasts you. Mind I say, every car requires attention and you can't expect any engine and components to last 200k if you are negligent and treat it like crap. My coworker owns a c6 vette with supercharger running at 700 hp, shooting for 1000 on nitrous and other components, and keeps up with it more than stink on crap. Why if it's piston?!! Haha he changes his oil evèry 1500 miles. He is a die hard ls guy but is more excited than me about my 20b. Unique is the key word and just remember that how much a person keeps up and cleans his car speaks everything about how he takes care of himself. Every car, piston or not, is different and has to be taken care of. Reliability costs money, how much can you afford?
In power? Sure seems to make more power than a 1.3L piston engine.
Originally Posted by Joker_andthe_thief
2. chugs petrol products like it were the 60's
Really? I thought chugging petrol products was the realm of trucks and SUVs that can't even break 20mpg. Even the oil burn is less than quite a few piston engines.
Originally Posted by Joker_andthe_thief
3. needs engine repair/replaced every 70,000mi/100,000km (fact, so screw your lies)
More accurate to say that negligent owners cause car damage within 70km-100km. But is that really a surprise?
Originally Posted by Joker_andthe_thief
4. expensive for basic rebuild parts $1500+ not including labor and finding a rotary tech (god forbid you can't figure out how to do it yourself as simple as it is)
More expensive for basic rebuilds. Less expensive for complete rebuilds. Ie, the more parts you have to replace, the more expensive it is. Again, no surprise.
here's the problem,,, Rx-8 beautiful car great styling interior and chassis set up,,,, under powered engine,,, and they are reliably un-reliable
the only solution for a "cost effective" Rx-8 would be to swap the motor either for an other gen or rotary rew/20b(what seems to be the swap everyone on this form wet dreams of)
but realistically pistons are "the" tried and true platform, whether they are v8's, v6's i6's i4's
rotory engines,,,,, the Renny,,,,,,, they are just novelty motors that allow the driver to reverse over-compensate, other than that they are NOT PRACTICAL
1. weak
2. chugs petrol products like it were the 60's
3. needs engine repair/replaced every 70,000mi/100,000km (fact, so screw your lies)
4. expensive for basic rebuild parts $1500+ not including labor and finding a rotary tech (god forbid you can't figure out how to do it yourself as simple as it is)
positive, they are so easy to rebuild you could re and re in about 2 days if you dick around,,,,,,
but the bonus of doing it yourself still won't offset the cost of parts :/
"hey guy's look how small my engine is!!!!!! I for sure don't have a small *****, If i had a small ***** I would drive something with a large engine but i don't, I drive a 1.3L. hey did you see how small my rotary is!!" - Every Rotory supporter ever
Have you ever driven a Turbo Renny RX-8 or a proper turbo rotary ever? Doubtful, otherwise you would have a different view. $1500 is expensive?
You, like many, talk a lot of nonsense for someone who has a non running "swap in progress". If big HP, reliability, and gas mileage were important then 99% of us would be driving Vettes. We didn't buy RX-8's by accident.
And Piston engines should be the tried and true platform, they have been researched and developed for over 100 years by every auto manufacturer, and many other companies for many different uses in many different platforms. The rotary has only really been embraced by one small car company since 1967 so it's not surprising the piston engine as whole is the more developed and as a result, more reliable and more powerful.
Relevant points to a degree.
But I will always insist that swapping a piston engine into the 8 does not make it better, and I will always disagree with anyone who says they can make it better unless they can prove it.
And fwiw, more torque, HP, and faster 1/4 mile times do not equate 'better' in my mind.
It's the total package.
I guess it's an agree to disagree situation.
Btw, I've owned 3 vehicles with V8s, 3 with 4 cylinders, 1 with a V6, and 1 straight 6, and this is by far my favorite.
I will definitely agree with you on this point. Even as a guy doing a swap, there is absolutely no way on the earth a swap doesnt **** up the car, and if guys think otherwise, I would be concerned about their ability to pull a swap off even remotely close to "properly"
The front of my LS motor, which from everything I can see, is further down and back then what everyone else is doing, is still 4-5" beyond the axle center line.
If anyone thinks that doesnt have a HUGE impact on the dynamics of the car, especially a car engineered to be a "front-mid engine", I recommend heading back to grade 12 Physics and do a little reading on chassis engineering.
All im trying to do with my swap, is **** it up as little as I can
I just like the RX8 chassis, and LS motors.
Also, LS swaps are insanely expensive if your time has any value. I wasnt trying to correct any issues with mine, I bought the car specifically to swap because I wanted a V8 RX8. The rotary engine had absolutely 0 to do with my decision to swap the car.
Last edited by Chezmanbespoke; 02-25-2015 at 11:20 AM.
I wish my senior physics class had chassis engineering
I had chassis engineering when I was in college for Automotive engineering, but you learn about moments and weight transfer in grade 12 At least we did here in Canada when I was there 6 years ago
IN ALL HONESTY I liked the renny it had just enough juice in it to zip around the city and onn the highway np,,,, if the whole basic rebuild kit was only $500-650 I would have bought it without thinking twice about it and would be cruising right now..
Infact I would most likely never consider swapping,, for $500 i would rebuild every 3-4 years without hesitation order parts pull motor rebuild and put back i probably would have sprung to turbo it at 5-7psi
I loved hitting 9.5rpm bouncing off the rev limiter and tearing around corners I love the style and I think it's a real unique and interesting motor
but all in all I am opposed to having to fork out $1500 to maintain oem performance
02-23-2015, 06:30 AM
