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Old 10-14-2013, 07:06 AM
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(re-write)

The rotary engine loves revs. It's power is up top, it has no torque down load, and can get carbon choked to death if it only ever stays down low. So the very nature of a rotary engine is higher revs. It only has 3 moving parts, and they handle high RPM very very well. Why? Because nothing is stopping and starting, it's just spinning. The engine is also very small, so there isn't much mass that is actually spinning around. So high RPM is nothing to be afraid of at all, and high RPM is NOT considered "abuse".

If you stay low, driving it like a piston engine, you will find that it is even more gutless than common opinion, and you will be killing it from choking it to death with carbon. So low RPM lugging is "abuse" for a rotary, high RPM is where it loves to be.

This behavior may be considered as abuse by piston engine standards, but it's not. You can't "beat the s**t out of it" though, in that you can't ignore the maintenance. You have to pay close attention to what it's telling you. Ignition health, oil health, and cooling system health are CRITICAL to maintain at high levels. Let something slip and cascading failures will give you a rather painful kick in the ***.




Now, all that being said, high RPM DOES generate a lot of heat. So don't just sit up in high RPM cruising there all the time, you are just cooking the engine and transmission. It loves going full throttle to redline, but then shift and let the engine cruise around 4-5k when you are just driving around. It's happy there.

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:06 AM
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How do I shut off an RX-8? (re-write)
This somewhat ridiculous question keeps popping up recently. Other than the obvious "turn the key counter clockwise and remove", there is literally nothing special that you have to do. You will find people that insist that I am wrong in making this statement, but no, it is just that they are taking one symptom and extrapolating preventative measures even further off base than they already were. For example, you will find people that swear by reving the engine to 4,000rpm in neutral and cutting the key out there, with the revs up. They are doing this under the assumption that the faster spinning rotors will help sweep excess fuel out of the rotor housing, to prevent a flood. The problem with this idea is already explained in the Flooding section above. If your engine is already warm, there is no excess fuel being dumped in! (Except perhaps the fuel needed to rev to 4,000rpm). Shutting it off at 4,000rpm is no different in terms of fuel than shutting it off at 750rpm. If your engine is currently cold, then this could only POSSIBLY have an impact if your ignition or starter or battery is failing, in which case 'yes', it might help prevent a flood. But a flood is a symptom of another issue anyway, and only happens on START, not on SHUTDOWN.

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:06 AM
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Premix (Updated October 14th 2013)

(Copied from the Newbie's Modding thread, if there are variances between them please send me a PM so I can correct)
Premix thread: https://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-...-thread-99636/
Premix is mixing 2-stroke oil with the gas in the gas tank to assist with lubrication of the apex seals. Why 2-stroke? Because 2-stroke (in general) is designed to be burned. Unlike 4-stroke that you use in during oil changes. Why premix? This gets a bit more vague when answering. The short answer is as noted, to assist with apex seal lubrication. But do we need it? That's a tougher question to answer with facts. Some people swear by it, others do just fine without it. Series 1 has 2 injectors pointing at the side seals, Series 2 adds a center injector to help with lubricating the center of the apex seal. Mazda added this, so they must have found excessive wear in the center of the apex seal, so it's circumstantial evidence for the need to premix. It's hard to say if this will save your engine from apex seal wear failure though. About the only confirmed difference premixing really makes is that the carbon buildup inside the engine appears to be "softer". In theory, makes it easier to clean, and if it comes off it won't come off in dangerous flakes that could cause carbon lock.

Which premix to use? Lots of debate here too. There are lots of options, and not all of them are even oil. The list below is ordered from most ideal at the top, least ideal/not recommended at the bottom.

Idemitsu Premix is generally considered to be the best out there. The only draw back to it is accessibility in that you have to order it, and there are minimum order quantities. Often a member here will order a larger case and split it with locals, making this a bit easier, but it's also usually a 1-time thing.

Amsoil Saber Pro is highly regarded, and a bit easier to get than Idemitsu.

JASO FC and ISO oils basically other oil brands of the same type and grade as the two items above. May be easier to obtain than those.

TWC-3 Oils are usually easy to find, however it's not likely that you are doing much good with them. Not much harm, but small engines that require this type of oil can fail due to lack of lubrication from it, so it might not be sufficient for us. Post from Emery on this:
Originally Posted by Emery_ View Post
I think some things should be clarified, after several PM's between me and STEALTH and doing some online research on TCW-3. It is definitely designed to be burnt and fully combust without leaving any residue or ash (if it is a synthetic ashless oil). It is made WITHOUT any metallic additives, as it is meant to burn ashless it does not contain any.

While it probably wouldn't do any harm to the car (besides the catalyst), the problem with TCW-3 lies within it's lubricating capabilities. It is not as good as an oil at lubricating as a ISO or JASO FC certified oil is. TCW-3 is an oil that is not good enough to lubricate snowmobiles and motorcycle engines, and has lead to failure to those engines that TCW-3 oils were used in. Not because the oil itself caused the failure, it just didn't serve it's purpose in lubricating the bearings and engine parts that needed lubricity, hence the failure.

So what I'm trying to get at is... TCW-3 oils suck as a lubricating oil. A JASO FC and ISO oil would do a much better job. TCW-3 premix is not the worst thing you can put in the car though, it shouldn't harm it, and it should lubricate some what, but it just isn't the best lubricant we would want for our engine; we would want to get the best we could in there. I just wanted to clarify this and explain some of these details, so that people using TCW-3 as premix don't get scared and think that they have potentially harmed their engine by using a oil with metallic particles (not true) that isn't meant to combust in their car (not true as well).

If you were using TCW-3 oils as I was, you should definitely switch to something else like idemitsu or any other 2-cycle oil JASO FC or ISO rated. This is one long assss thread, and reading through it is a pain, but if one does so you would find how contradicting a lot of the information is. I just wanted to make it easier for some people, and so that others don't make the same mistake I and many others have made.
Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) is common, and easy to obtain. Some people swear by it, others denouce it totally. The people that love it can't prove that it does anything good, and the people that say that it is worthless can only point at it's cleaning agents as being a problem, which doesn't even sound like it's that big of a problem. All in all though, it probably doesn't have much lubrication compared to some of the other options above, so it could be considered to probably be on the same level as TWC-3. I.e., not doing much.

Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant (Lucas UCL) is a non-oil you can find out there, but we can't recommend it. We can't prove that it causes any fuel filter problems, but for some unknown reason it shows up in a significant percentage of fuel filter problem threads (>2 in 3 threads at a guess). Doesn't even make sense why it would cause problems since it's still just a liquid that can go through the filter, but often fuel filter problem threads include the owner using it for a while before hand, and then stops using it and the problem clears up.

How much premix? The standard amount is about 1oz for every 2 gallons of gas. Some people go 1oz for every 3 or 4 gallons, and some go for 1oz to 1 gallon. 1oz for 1 gallon is getting on the high end though, so don't just use that to use it. Dig into why you want that much. One of the common reasons for going to 1oz to 1 gallon is for a track day. Lots of heat means a bit better lubrication could be a good thing in the end. Note that these values are for how much fuel you are putting into the gas tank. So if you are filling up at halfway and adding 7 gallons, then about 3.5oz is ideal. If you never fill till the light comes on, then around 6.5oz is more accurate. Some premix containers come with a measuring method built right into the top, otherwise it might be useful to find some small plastic containers of the ideal size to keep several on hand. I lost them in a prior move and haven't replaced them, but for a while I was using four 6oz bottles that were originally intended for hair products. Clean them out thoroughly, let them dry, fill ahead of time, and keep tucked in the car to easily add when I fill up. If you opt for this and don't use glass bottles, I'd recommend replacing the bottles periodically, maybe every 6 months. Most plastics aren't of a grade that is designed to hold petroleum products, and it will start to break down from the inside after a while.

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:06 AM
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Trying to figure out the difference between the years? Colors? Options?

Go here:
Spec Decks, Color Charts, and Pricing - Zoom44
Year by Year Changes - LionZoo

There was a generation change from 2008 to 2009. This means that 2004-2008 RX-8s (Series 1) are NOT the same as 2009-2012 RX-8s (Series 2). There are many changes between the cars. A full list of changes is here: https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-te...s-i-ii-161665/

The Series 2 RX-8s are generally "better" cars, with most of the changes being good changes. The Series 2 RX-8s have significantly reduced aftermarket support however, so modifications possible are either much more limited, more expensive, and/or will require some pioneering on your part.

Colors possible:
Black:
2004 2008 Brilliant Black Clearcoat (A3F with
Clearcoat) (PZ without Clearcoat) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...-blacks-21462/
2009+ Sparkaling Black Mica https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...-micas-175097/

White:
2005 2006 Whitewater Pearl (25D) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...-pearls-51410/
2007 2008 Crystal White Pearl (34K) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...pearls-149852/

Grey:
2006 2008 Galaxy Gray (32S) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...y-grays-86431/
2004 2005 Titanium Gray Metallic (29Y) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...m-grays-39366/
2008 2008 Metropolitian Grey (36C) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...y-mica-155771/

Silver:
2004 2008 Sunlight Silver Metallic (22V) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...silvers-53580/

Red:
2004 2008 Velocity Red Mica (27A) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...ty-reds-39071/
2006 2006 Copper Red (32V) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...shinkas-86434/

Blue:
2004 2006 Winning Blue Metallic (27B) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...g-blues-23169/
2006 2007 Phantom Blue (32C) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...m-blues-86432/
2007 2008 Stormy Blue Mica (35J) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...e-mica-102515/
2009+ Aurora Blue https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...ica-r3-173538/

Green:
2004 2005 Nordic Green Mica (27C) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...-greens-39207/

Yellow:
2004 2004 Lightning Yellow (A4J) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...yellows-33458/

Purple:
2005 2005 Black Cherry Mica (28W) https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multime...shinkas-56131/

Major Trims and Packages
The following applies to the US only. If someone from Europe wants to write up the differences there, I'll happily include it.

In 2004, there was only 1 "Trim" level, officially: Base
In 2005, an additional trim was officially added: Shinka.

For 2004 and 2005, all commonly referred to trims were option packages. This means that all 2004 and 2005s will NOT list their trim level in 3rd party databases. You have to visually take a look to see what is in the car. For 2005, most cars will show as "Base/Shinka", meaning "Base or Shinka, we don't know".

Major Option Packages, and later trim levels (only significant parts of the packages are listed)
  • Sport Suspension option package (18" wheels to fit over larger brakes, carbon fiber driveshaft, stiffer sway bars, firmer shocks and springs)
  • Touring option package (Automatically got Sport Suspension, plus a moon roof and fog lights)
  • Grand Touring option package (Touring plus heated leather seats)

If a car got the 6-speed manual transmission, it automatically got the 6-port engine and the Sport Suspension package. So having an Automatic transmission and not having any of these packages left you with what we have termed the "Base Automatic". These are actually rare, since even many of the lower trim automatics were ordered with the Sport Suspension as well, even if not with Touring or Grand Touring packages. The Base Automatic was most remarkably different in that it was a combination of missing so many things that made the RX-8 good. It was missing the higher RPM redline, missing the better suspension, missing the better brakes, missing the carbon fiber driveshaft, and it's 16" wheels make it look a bit out of proportion with more wheel gap than even the stock 18s. It can't really even be referred to as more focused on touring, since it was missing nearly all the driver comfort features too, like leather, heated seats, premium audio, moonroof, etc... Largely, it's recommended to avoid these, since they are likely priced the same as RX-8s with the more desired features, but you get so much less for your money. The cost of converting a Base Automatic to even a Sport Automatic would be more than the purchase price of the car at this point.


Special Editions
In 2005, Shinka as a trim was basically a GT with the unique Black Cherry Mica exterior paint, parchment color leather interior, upgraded shocks, and a few minor items like satellight radio and a eurethane foam filled front crossmember

In 2006, the major option packages were converted to official trim levels, and were largely the same. Shinka was retained, however Black Cherry Mica was not. Shinkas could now come in a number of different colors, however of those colors, only Copper Red Mica was available on the Shinka.

In 2007, Shinka was dropped, however the 40th Anniversary Edition was released. It was basically the same as the Shinka of prior years, only a unique Metropolitian Grey Mica color exterior, with an orange/brown interior. All other Shinka special items transfered to the 40th.

In 2008, the 40th was dropped, and not replaced by anything 'Special'.

In 2009, Touring was dropped, and R3 was introduced. R3 was the first significantly different trim produced for the RX-8, including some of the driver features from the GT trim, but not including the main 3 GT items that increase weight. So no leather, no heated seats, and no moonroof. The seats were rather expensive Recaros, and the exterior bodywork was changed rather noticeably from the Sport and GT trims. They also got unique 19" wheels. The R3 was only available in a few colors in each geographical region. The US got Velocity Red Mica, Sparkling Black Mica, and Aurora Blue Mica. Only Aurora Blue was not available on the GTs and Sports. Canada, Japan, Australia and the UK got Crystal White Pearl R3s, with one of the other colors as well (varies, and I am unsure which countries got which)

The 2009 trims remained largely unchanged through to the final production year: 2011.

Options

Navigation: Navigation was an option for all trim levels, and was not automatically included for any trim. It was expensive (+$2,000), and not all that good, so it is also fairly rare. That doesn't mean that it's valuable however. Updates are almost non-existant, so about all it's good for now is the motorized hood is popular among people that install tablets or mini-PCs in the hood. If you paid for it brand new, you likely wasted the entire price of adding it.

Appearance Package:
The appearance package for the Series1 includes the front lip and side aero flares. It was not included automatically on any trim, but was an option for all. At a guess I'd say roughly 40% of RX-8s had this installed at the dealer or factory. (total WAG). The appearance package doesn't make any appreciable difference in the drag or downforce of the car.

Rear Spoiler:
It is NOT a wing, it is a spoiler. There is a difference. Wings add downforce and drag, spoilers reduce drag, and sometimes reduce lift (which is the opposite of downforce, and reducing lift doesn't mean increasing downforce) The rear spoiler was not included automatically on any trim, but was an option for all. The rear spoiler is actually functional, decreasing the coefficient of drag by 0.02.

Rotary Accents:
The rotary accents are silver or chrome plastic inserts that fit on the front and rear rotary symbols that are molded into the bumper. They are rather expensive from a dealer, and they are often lost if the bumper flexes, like slowly bending against a parking curb from mis-judging the distance.

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM
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...still ready to buy? What you should ask and look for

So, if, after reading everything above, and you still want to purchase an RX-8, here is a list of things to look for and/or ask questions about. Private sellers are more likely to know the answers, dealers less likely.

Note: These are in ADDITION to any questions that you should ask of any car you are thinking about buying, regardless of year, make, or model. These are RX-8 specific questions only.

Any item with a blue Mazda next to it can be answered by calling Mazda if the seller doesn't know, (or you think they are making it up / lying)
Any item with an orange year (like 2004) next to it means that the question applies for that year.

(in no particular order)
- Engine ever replaced [Mazda]
- - Mileage on current engine [Mazda]
- Engine Compression
- Catalytic converter replaced
- Mileage of last coil change
- - Has it ever had one or more coils fail on it with the current cat?
- Mileage of last plug change
- Mileage of last plug wire change
- Has it ever been flooded? (cat life remaining info)
- Tail lights ever replaced? [2004, 2005]
- - If not, have the seals ever been replaced, or the tailights modified to drain water?
- Oil consumption (ask in how many miles between adding a quart or half a quart, and have them tell you which it was))
- MSP 13 performed by a dealer, and date / mileage [Mazda 2004, 2005]
- Gas mileage typically seen
- Number of miles typically on the trip odometer when the low gas light comes on
(yes, ask both gas mileage questions)
- Starter replaced to the upgraded version [2004, 2005]
- Temperature control **** ever replaced or repaired [2004, 2005]
- Clutch pedal assembly ever replaced, re-welded, or re-inforced
- Cranking time before starting when cold
- Cranking time before starting when hot


Come back here with the answers and we can give you a heads up or a general idea on any red flags or warnings to keep in mind. Not all of them would mean "don't buy", but may help reduce the asking price.

Mazda North America Operation contact info:
By Phone: 800-222-5500 Monday – Friday, 6:00am to 4:45pm PST

Mazda North American Operations
P.O. Box 19734
Irvine, CA 92623-9734
Attn: Customer Assistance Center

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM
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So I need a compression test right? (Updated November 14th 2013)
Yes. And it can not be done with a standard analog compression tester for piston engines. A typical cheap analog tester just plugs into a spark plug port and as the engine cranks, the needle moves, and you can easily see where it's swinging to every compression stroke. 1 spark plug, 1 cylinder, 1 compression number.

The rotary however is 1 spark plug, 3 rotor cavities, 3 compression numbers per revolution. There is no way for a simple analog tester to record each face of the rotor independently as it spins, updating each number correctly as it compresses.

Piston engines also have relatively the same compression number regardless of how fast the engine is pumping. If there is a loss of compression due to a seal or whatever, there will be some loss as it compresses, and a slower RPM will read slightly less as it allows slightly more time to leak. Rotary engines have plenty of 'gaps', and there is a very real and measurable difference in compression depending on engine cranking speed. The faster it spins the higher the compression. You can even remove the apex seals completely, and it gets enough compression at 9,000rpm to stay alive, though not much below that it won't. (incidentally, this is an often over-looked dynamic of how the engine produces it's power curve, and how it doesn't have severe drop-off in power the higher you go in RPM the way piston engines do, and one of the reasons low rpm torque is so poor. Not the only reason, but a contributing factor). So, in addition to the 2 sets of 3 numbers for each of the 3 faces of each of the 2 rotors, you need the crank RPM for the test. A normalization chart based on RPM determines if you are pass or fail.


Many dealers also obtain a BARO voltage reading test to determine vacuum as another method of determining pass or fail. Vacuum is related to compression, but it isn't the same thing, and is possible for them to differ more than expected. There have been quite a few reports of Mazda techs returning BARO numbers that clearly fail and stating that they pass, so if it fails compression but passes vacuum, I'd question the techs quite a bit about making sure they did it right.

Originally Posted by omgitsdomie
1. While i've been searching around for rx8's there are some at different dealers. EX: an rx8 at a Nissan dealer. How would you go about asking to get a compression test since usually most dealers wont let you take a car somewhere without a representative, and usually they only go with you only for test drives, and test drives only?
Only Mazda dealers will be able to do a compression test, unless you happen to live near one of the bare handful of non-Mazda owned rotary compression testers.

Your best bet is to simply ask the dealer if you can take it to get a compression test. If they decline, they ask if they can do it. If they still decline, then they probably have something to hide and you should immediately cross that 8 off your list, no matter how much surface appeal it has.

No reputable dealer will object to having one of their cars checked over by a 3rd party, ESPECIALLY when it's a particular check that only Mazda dealers can do. A129 million point inspection means nothing if they don't have a rotary compression tester to check the most critical part. Or convince them to cover the engine with an extended warranty on THEIR dime. "Hey, if you can't check the engine, I'm taking a risk buying it, and you need to cover it in case I'm buying a time bomb."

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM
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I got my compression test. What do these numbers mean? (re-write)

You should have gotten numbers in a format something like this:
Rotor 1: 7.5, 7.6, 7.5
Rotor 2: 7.2, 7.3, 7.3
250 RPM

- The 6 numbers, 3 for each rotor, are your compression scores, one for each face of each rotor in the engine.
- If you don't have all 6 rotor face scores and at least 1 RPM number, your compression scores are going to be vague and hard to interpret.
- You may also have your compression scores in a different scale, such as PSI.
- The RPM is the speed at which the test was done.
- The RPM is critical to interpreting the numbers, as rotary compression changes with engine speed, especially at low RPM.
- Since the engine is spun by your starter, this is ALSO a good indication of the health of your starter!

The general guideline for how good, or bad, the scores are, WHEN NORMALIZED TO 250 RPM AT SEA LEVEL!
- 8.5 and up: Congratulations, you have a stellar engine! Compression scores this high are rare. If you think that this may be too high, there may have been excessive oil in the housing.
- 8.0-8.4: This is a very good engine! You should have very good power and as long as you stay on top of the rest of the failure points possible, it should last a long time
- 7.5-7.9: This is an acceptable engine. Most engines from Mazda seem to be in this range after the break-in period. Stay on top of the other failure points possible, and you should get at least 40-60k more out of this engine, if not more.
- 7.0-7.4: The engine has some life left in it, but start looking for replacement options. Compression loss is going to start speeding up from blow-by combustion gasses eating away at the seals.
- 6.5-6.9: Officially failing. The engine doesn't have all that long to 'live'. Compression loss is accelerating due to blow-by.
- 6.0-6.4: Failing significantly. Very prone to flooding even with new starter, battery, and ignition. It will have trouble starting when hot, power loss especially down low, and noticeable difficulty idling.
- 5.5-5.9: Failing badly. Extremely prone to flooding. Will be nearly impossible to keep it idling when hot. Significant power loss.
- 5.0-5.4: This engine is probably only able to start with a pull start, daily use is nearly impossible.
- Under 5.0: How is this engine even running!?!

Caveats:
- If the test was done incorrectly, this can skew the numbers up or down.
- If the engine has excessive oil inside the housings, the compression numbers will be reported as higher than they actually are when the engine is running
- If the test was not done at 250rpm and at sea level (neither of which is likely), the numbers you have will need to be normalized to 250rpm at sea level. Use Mazda's calculator here: Foxed.ca - Rotary Compression Calculator
- This is largely my opinion, based on seeing hundreds of compression scores on the site over the years. I am not using anything scientific to back it up. As always, your mileage may vary.

The black line is the failing line. Any 1 rotor face at a 6.9 or lower is failing.
Attached Thumbnails New and Potential Owners START HERE!-compression_chart.png  

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM
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I am buying it! What should I address first? (Updated October 25th 2013)
Generally, the more history on these items you can get from the prior owner, the better. These are all RX-8 specific. They are in addition to typical items like brakes and tires. Every item on this list is on it because it either fails regularly OR a failure of the point will result in significant cascading damage and costly repairs.

This is also the long term recommended maintenance list from us here on RX8Club.com.

Car mileage over 30,000:
- Replace Ignition coils
- Replace Plug wires
- Replace Spark plugs
- Clean MAF (mass air flow sensor)
- Clean ESS (e-shaft sensor)
- Reset ESS profile
- Clean power steering connections
- Clean battery terminals and clamps
- Replace transmission fluid
- Replace coolant (Mazda FL-22 is highly recommended, read this thread for why: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...licone-238638/)
- Replace air filter
- Replace brake fluid (fluid in the brake lines AND the clutch line)
~$300 USD in parts if you shop smartly.


Car mileage over 60,000:
...all above, plus...
- Clean all chassis electrical grounding points
- Replace accessory belts
- Clean OMP lines
- Replace rear differential fluid
- Replace thermostat
- Clean / Straighten AC condenser fins
- Clean / Straighten oil cooler fins
- Inspect catalytic converter
- Clean / Inspect intake valving
- Consider / inspect all points in 90,000+ as well, many items fail early
~$130 USD in parts if you shop smartly.

Car mileage over 90,000:
...all above plus...
- Replace coolant bottle
- Replace radiator hoses
- Replace radiator
- Replace front O2 sensor
- Replace motor mounts
- Inspect clutch pedal assembly for flex / weld breaks
~$900 USD in parts if you shop smartly.

Obviously if you get information about any of these items already addressed, it will help to reduce the list / cost. Get as much certainty as you can though! All cooling related items can cost you your engine! Even as soon as the same day you take the 8 home with you. It has happened more than once. The rest can be just as critical in how much it can cost you.

Note: This isn't a dealer's maintenance list that is filled with questionable fluff. Every single one of these items is something that typically fails in that mileage range, and for each item, if it fails it will either A) strand you, or B) cause significant and costly additional damage.

Last edited by RIWWP; 06-01-2014 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM
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Key System Functions and their Critical Components (Updated April 13th, 2014)

See the next post for more details about each part, pictures, locations, and what impact they have.

Starting the Engine
  • Starter
  • Battery
  • Engine Compression
  • Grounding Wires
  • Ignition Coils
  • Spark Plugs
  • Spark Plug Wires
  • Fuel Pump
  • Fuel Injectors

Generating Power at Full Throttle
  • Ignition Coils
  • Spark Plugs
  • Spark Plug Wires
  • Engine Compression
  • E-Shaft Sensor (ESS)
  • Air Filter
  • Intake Valving
  • Throttle Body
  • Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF)
  • Fuel Pump
  • Fuel Injectors
  • Catalytic Converter (Cat)

Keeping the Engine at a Cruise
  • Ignition Coils
  • Spark Plugs
  • Spark Plug Wires
  • Engine Compression
  • E-Shaft Sensor (ESS)
  • Intake Valving
  • Throttle Body
  • Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF)
  • Fuel Pump
  • Fuel Injectors
  • Front O2 sensor
  • Catalytic Converter (Cat)

Keeping the Engine at an Idle
  • Ignition Coils
  • Spark Plugs
  • Spark Plug Wires
  • Engine Compression
  • E-Shaft Sensor (ESS)
  • Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF)
  • Front O2 sensor
  • Catalytic Converter (Cat)
  • Intake Vaccum

Managing Engine Heat
  • Radiator
  • Thermostat
  • Radiator fans
  • Water Pump
  • Coolant Lines
  • Coolant Temp Sensor (ECT)
  • Oil Coolers
  • Oil Cooler Lines

Managing Exhaust Emissions
  • Catalytic Converter
  • Air Injection Pump
  • Front O2 sensor
  • Rear O2 sensor
  • Coolant Temp Sensor (ECT)

Changing Gears
  • Clutch Pedal Assembly
  • Clutch Master Cylinder
  • Clutch Slave Cylinder
  • Clutch Fork
  • Release Bearing (Throwout Bearing, Release Collar)
  • Clutch Pressure Plate
  • Clutch Disc
  • Flywheel
  • Pilot Bearing
  • Transmission Shifter
  • Transmission Syncros

Bringing the Car to a Stop
  • Brake Pedal Assembly
  • Brake Master Cylinder
  • Brake Power Booster
  • ABS Junction Block
  • Brake Lines
  • Brake Fluid
  • Brake Calipers
  • Brake Pads
  • Brake Rotors

Providing Electrical Power
  • Battery
  • Alternator
  • Grounding Cables

Last edited by RIWWP; 04-13-2014 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM
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Critical System Components (In-progress April 13th, 2014)
  • ABS Junction Block
  • Air Filter
  • Air Injection Pump
  • Alternator
  • Battery
    • The battery stores the electrical charge needed to power the starter.
    • If a battery's charge is low, or the connections are corroded/dirty, it will not be able to deliver much power to the starter, reducing the speed of the starter or preventing it from spinning at all
    • Batteries need to be replaced every 3-7 years, depending on what type/quality of battery you last bought
    • The battery is easily reached (here), and replacement is very simple
    • Do not connect a battery backwards! You will blow fuses and possibly damage very expensive electronics
  • Brake Calipers
  • Brake Fluid
  • Brake Lines
  • Brake Master Cylinder
  • Brake Pads
  • Brake Pedal Assembly
  • Brake Power Booster
  • Brake Rotors
  • Catalytic Converter (Cat)
  • Clutch Disc
  • Clutch Fork
  • Clutch Master Cylinder
  • Clutch Pedal Assembly
  • Clutch Pressure Plate
  • Clutch Slave Cylinder
  • Coolant Lines
  • Coolant Temp Sensor (ECT)
  • E-Shaft Sensor (ESS)
  • Engine Compression
    • The engine's compression of the air/fuel mixture is directly related to how effective the combustion is at pushing the rotor.
    • Worn seals will reduce engine compression
    • Lower RPM will reduce engine compression
    • Low cranking speeds from either a dying starter or weak battery will reduce compression at starting
  • Flywheel
  • Fuel Injectors
  • Fuel Pump
  • Grounding Cables
  • Ignition Coils
  • Intake Vaccum
  • Intake Valving
  • Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF)
  • O2 sensor, front
  • O2 sensor, rear
  • Oil Cooler Lines
  • Oil Coolers
  • Pilot Bearing
  • Radiator
  • Radiator fans
  • Release Bearing (Throwout Bearing, Release Collar)
  • Spark Plugs
  • Spark Plug Wires
  • Starter (picture)
    • The starter is an electric motor that accepts 12v power from the battery to power it, and a gear that engages the flywheel to spin the engine when the engine isn't running under it's own power.
    • If the starter can't spin the engine fast enough, there will be starting problems
    • The faster a starter can spin the engine, the more immedate the engine fire-up will be
    • Starters, like any other electric motor, slow down over time and will eventually wear out.
    • The starter is easily reached under the car (here), and replacement is very simple to DIY (here).
  • Thermostat
  • Throttle Body
  • Transmission Shifter
  • Transmission Syncros
  • Water Pump

Last edited by RIWWP; 06-09-2014 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM
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USA Engine Core Warranty Extension: (Updated November 13th 2013)

Partly for public relations, partly for emissions compliance, Mazda extended the Powertrain warranty coverage on the engine core components from 5 years 60,000 miles to 8 years 100,000 miles. This applies to ALL RX-8, regardless of model year.

Go to: Mazdausa.com -> Owners menu, Warranty option
Powertrain Limited Warranty

Mazda warrants that the Powertrain Components of new Mazda cars and trucks will be free of defects with normal use and prescribed maintenance for 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first. Ordinary maintenance items, adjustments, parts subject to normal wear and certain other items are excluded. This “limited warranty” is transferable during the warranty period on all new Mazda vehicles sold and serviced in the United States.

RX-8 Rotary Engine Core Limited Warranty Extension

Mazda Motor Corporation is extending the warranty coverage on Rotary Engine Core Components on all RX-8 vehicles produced after the 2004 model year. The warranty coverage for the Rotary Engine Core Components is extended to 8 years (96 months) from the original warranty start date, with a 100,000 mileage limitation. The following is a list of components covered by this warranty:
- Rotary Engine Core
- Rotary Housing and Internal Parts
- Internal Seals and Gaskets
  • THIS IS NOT A RECALL! People often mistakenly refer to the warranty extension as a recall, but it is not.
  • This is an extension of an existing warranty. It works like any other warranty. Owners need to meet the same requirements for this warranty as any other warranty. I.E Maintenance records, proof of a problem, etc...
  • The expiration date depends on when the car was first sold. If your car sat on the original dealer's lot for a year, it postpones the start of the warranty by the same amount. My 2005 wasn't sold until September of 2006, so my 8 year mark was pushed back to September of 2014. There are a few rare cases where the car's warranty period started before the car was sold, such as if the dealer registered it for use as a dealer vehicle.



Obtaining Warranty Coverage: (Updated November 13th 2013)

In simple terms, a warranty is when a company legally accepts financial liability for a failure for a specified time period. This doesn't have to be the manufacturer, though it usually is. When someone (a manufacturer, dealer, finance company, etc...) issues a warranty, they are accepting liability for that period of time/distance, accepting that any issues within the warranty coverage areas are either A) not supposed to happen or B) happen infrequently enough that they will be able to cover the cost of the repairs from the warranty charges from others that don't. Legally, it is only A), but practically, it is both.

When something breaks on your car, and it should be covered under warranty, your request for warranty service is legally a request for the warranty issuer to accept liability for damage/repairs as agreed.

If the warranty issuer accepts liability, which is usual, then they reimburse the shop for the costs of repairs. This is true even of dealers. Dealers charge the cost of repairs to Mazda USA, and get reimbursed. They make a lot of money on engine replacements. This is a critical point to keep in mind. The dealers can choose to not even file for warranty coverage (usually due to laziness), or they intentionally or accidentally misrepresent your car and modifications to Mazda USA during the discussion when Mazda is deciding on if they will accept the liability or not.

If a warranty issuer decides they don't want to accept liability, then there is a fight ahead, at some level. Dealers are notorious for making this decision without even asking their parent company. Warranty requests are something of a mark against dealers I think. However, another critical point to recognize is that when a vehicle that is still within warranty period is denied warranty coverage, the warranty issuer has the burden of proof legally. They have to prove that a non-OEM part, a non-approved action, or a lack of required action caused the failure. If your only mod is a short shifter and your visor breaks, they can not possibly prove the link legally, because there isn't any. (Dealers have been known to try crazy stuff like that). If your transmission syncros fail though, well, there is more gray area. Legally, they have to prove the short shifter caused it, but there is enough gray that they might get it by.

Maintenance records is the big one. For all of history of warranties being issued, dealers have asked for maintenance records as proof of service before coverage. However, it isn't actually proof. Records simply close a loophole that they might try to exploit to get out of accepting liability. A vehicle with no service records at all can have an engine failure, and the warranty issues has to prove that a lack of service caused the failure. Legally. Of course getting to that point might still be costly fighting that battle, whether in time, money, and/or stress. They "win" alot of the warranty requests because the owners don't know any better, aren't prepared to fight them, or they are flat out lied to. Talking about all manufacturers here. Mazda is a bit better than most in my opinion, though they are certainly not exempt.

Given the history of failure with this engine, if it got to a legal fight, Mazda has very little chance at winning unless there was something changed about the engine itself (turbo, supercharger, oil, seals, rebuilt, etc...). But you don't want to get to that part. So in the end it comes down to 2 realistic options: 1) Build a relationship with your neighboring dealer, soaking the extra cost of time and money for routine maintenance so you develop that relationship and grease the gears if something warranty pops up, or 2), do everything yourself, and any warranty claims are more casual attempts where you are willing to take it on yourself if denied.

Last edited by RIWWP; 04-13-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM
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Wait. Why would anyone in their right mind buy an RX-8?
Everything above is practically screaming at you not to buy an RX-8 isn't it? Well, yes and no. If you are hearing that loud and clear, and do not place much value in things like "joy", then this isn't the car for you. Find something else. We have no interest in owners that hate the car because they purchased it with their eyes shut and then got punched in the face for wandering around the rotary world without paying attention. The RX-8 has issues, yes. But so do plenty of other cars out there. Cars that people pursue passionately despite constant problems. Pretty much the entire British and Italian sports car and roadster categories fall under this. It doesn't take much looking to find that just about any car of passion has both sides of the passion coin.

You will become emotional about this car unless you ignore it and move elsewhere. It will happen.

And that's really the whole point. We love this car. It's an emotion to us. Inherently not logical or reasonable. The people that dislike the 8 do so passionately as well. Everyone likes to come up with logical reasons to like or dislike it, but in the end it's all about how the car you drive makes you feel. If the only way your car impacts you is not feeling wallet-raped every month, then you are going to bias toward cost efficient cars. For some ex-owners that hate the RX-8, the feeling is one of devastation, anger, even betrayal. Largely, those owners bought it and either tried to make it something it's not, or bought it without any idea of what they were getting into.

For most of us, the only feeling we pursue is that what plasters that grin to our face. And everyone gets it differently.

The costs of ownership are high for us. But so are the rewards. For most of us, the rewards outweigh the costs. The reward of joy is something that we passionately pursue. Continually. It never gets old, it never becomes something less valuable. For many of us, that joy is what life is all about, and we found something that speaks to us, something that gets us there.

Definitely rule out any vehicles that don't make sense financially. But if it's between two or more cars that are all reasonably affordable to you, you will end up picking the one that makes you feel the best. Or gives you the feelings you are seeking most accurately. Too many people out there only want their car to leave them alone. They don't want anything having to do with cars, but in the end still have one because of the basic need for transportation. They want to be isolated from the road, from other cars, from other people. They want the car to be efficient so it doesn't cost them too much, they want it reliable so they don't have to pay attention to it.


To anyone that asks, I always tell them: Find a car that speaks to you. Find one you enjoy. One that puts a smile on your face. There is nothing else like it. It doesn't have to be a rotary, good handling, or even pretty. If it fits you, then it's a perfect fit. Enjoy!

This is another thread to go through that has probably sold more 8s than any single salesman out there: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...-things-67045/
It really shows what it is about the RX-8 that we love.

Last edited by RIWWP; 04-13-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:08 AM
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So if I get one, what can I do to help make my engine last? (re-write)
For this, you have to understand that each different failure method has to be addressed individually. Some solutions help more than one aspect, but if you ignore one, it's probably going to be the one to bite you.
First Note as you read these: There are some "solutions" presented which conflict with causes listed. Example High Load High RPM helps carbon, but hurts side seal and cooling. It's the excess that gets you into trouble. Don't stay high RPM all of the time for carbon, because you are dramatically increasing the chance of heat related failures, but don't avoid high RPM either because it is increasing the chance of carbon related failure. Dip your feet in both pools...
Second Note: These are fairly basic concepts. They can get far far far more involved. Pursuing any of these should be preceded by research.



Failure causes from the list in post 2:
- Excessive carbon buildup accelerates seal wear, causing compression loss
- Excessive carbon buildup unseats the apex seals, causing compression loss
It is nearly impossible to prevent all carbon buildup in our engines. But some things can help make an impact:
A) High RPM at full throttle (commonly known as "redline a day") produces lots of heat and energy along with high air/exhaust velocities, which can help is breaking down the carbon and blowing it out of the engine. An engine that only sees low RPM and low load (as many automatics do) has been shown to have significantly more carbon buildup than one that is rev'ed hard often. This will NOT prevent all carbon.
B) Premix. Premix is largely a benefit for apex seal wear, however it has been shown on engine teardowns that the carbon in an engine that was premixed is 'softer' than carbon in an engine that wasn't, and seems to lend a slight benefit in this area to decarbing
C) Seafoam / Decarb / Steam Cleaning. See my testing thread here for the effectiveness of it: https://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-...r-pics-241867/
Soaking with seafoam simply doesn't remove any appreciable carbon. The only way to really strip carbon periodically is with ingestion while the engine is running. And in this circumstance, seafoam is just as effective as distilled water. Seafoam is also ~100 times more expensive per unit of measure, so there isn't much of a reason to actually use seafoam. It is also more benefitial to ingest the water at higher RPMs, and to feed both rotors at the same time. This will indeed strip away carbon. However, it is a VERY slow process. Do not expect a single gallon will do it. 1.5 gallons of water, 0.5 gallons of washer fluid (it's a water/meth mix), and the carbon near the seals was less than half gone. Removing carbon is always a good thing, however don't expect stellar results, and don't think that it's removing all of the carbon, or even that it's removing carbon where it needs to. If you do this, you will need an oil change immediately after at a minimum. If you have a cat installed, the cat can start glowing, so you will need to take breaks to let it cool down. May kill the cat and/or reduce it's life span. See the testing thread for details.
D) Water/Meth injection. W/M injection is usually targeted almost entirely for forced induction as a safety margin by increasing the effective octane rating of the fuel. However it does have side benefits of producing remarkably clean engine internals. If you want to learn more, read up on this opening post on RX7Club: (Making The Case For The <Rotary> Powered FD: The Fix - RX7Club.com). He largely talks about methods of failure for the RX-7, and it has a slightly different application and goal that the writer was going after, but still valuable nuggets in there for our engine's long term health and how effective it is at removing carbon. However, note that W/M is not legal everywhere, many racing organizations prohibit it, it usually requires some sort of tuning, and kits are usually set up to deliver under boost, which an N/A engine won't have. I don't know of anyone running W/M on an naturally aspirated Renesis for the purposes of cleaning only. W/M injection solves a few of the steam and seafoam treatment weaknesses, namely the inability to deliver either with the engine under full load while the car sits in your driveway. Injection also gets the intake valving that none of the other treatments do.

- Excessive heat buildup warps the housings to one degree or another, preventing the apex seals from sealing, causing compression loss
This can be caused from a few different sources. Probably most common is a coolant system overheating, followed by a cat clogging. Most housing warp failures end up leaking coolant and/or oil directly into the housing because the seals and rings can no longer seal properly. The greater the warp, the faster the oil and coolant leak. (Separate from the oil injection. Oil injection rates shouldn't ever produce oil smoke from the tailpipe, which oil control ring failure usually does). This can be a sudden failure from any single cooling system component. A suddenly stuck thermostat, a clogged radiator, too low coolant without realizing it, too much high RPM, high ambient temps in stop and go traffic, etc...
A) Remove the cat, install a midpipe. This isn't kosher with the EPA, environmentalists, federal government, most state governments, emissions inspection stations, your spouse's nose, or your rear bumper paint. However, aside from the power increase it will give you, removing the cat removes the possibility that it will clog on your car, which can cause significant localized heat within your cat, header, and back up into your engine. I believe that my engine failed due to housing warp from a failed cat.
B) Upgrade your cooling system. Do not rely on your temperature needle. By the time it starts to move, the engine is already hot enough to be able to start warping. Damage is almost guaranteed. You have to understand what each component of your coolant system does, don't just go upgrading *****-nilly. The radiator is what transfers the heat out of the coolant. An upgraded radiator means a faster heat dump from the coolant it sees (actual upgrade, many aftermarket radiators are NOT upgrades). However, the thermostat is what controls what coolant gets to the radiator, and if the coolant temp drops to a certain point, it won't even send the coolant to the radiator to dump heat from. So if you have a 200 degree thermostat, and your coolant temps sit at 200 degrees, upgrading your radiator will do nothing to drop this! It will only increase the rate of temperature drop when you are ABOVE your thermostat temp. Upgrading your thermostat to a lower temperature is what can allow your radiator to bring temps down. If you are getting an engine rebuild, there are improvements you can have done to your coolant passages to aid their heat transfer from the block to the coolant. There is also the water pump, which pushes the coolant through the system. It's speed is based on RPM speed, and the OEM water pump can have quite a bit of trouble moving coolant at high RPM. Upgrading the water pump can help reduce heat-spotting in the engine
C) Lower the trigger temp for the radiator fans. The OEM trigger temp is almost 'too high' already. There are a few kits you can buy, as well as it is built into Mazdamaniac's AccessPORT base tune. So your fan runs more, but your system stays cooler.
D) Flush radiator fluid periodically. Already part of regular maintenance, but more critical for our engines than piston engines.


- Excessive exhaust temperatures overheat the side seal springs
This is a failure that most of us don't have to really worry about. It's the number one failure method in race engines, and I suspect most turbo'ed engine failures that don't involve a sudden lean spike detonation. Lots of exhaust heat builds up exhaust port heat, leading to the side seal spring deforming until it gets to the point that it pushes the side seal out of place, the seal catches the exhaust port and shatters. This is usually only a problem in cars putting down ~220whp or more, AND spends most of it's life at high RPM and high load (like a race engine). It is a scale, it's likely more about how much "increments of energy" the spring takes, and a lower power level can get away with more high load than a higher power, etc...
A) The only 'known' solution for this is using the side seal springs from the FD engine. I have nothing to prove this, and you can find race teams that swear there is nothing to do about it and other race teams that swear they no longer have the problem. If you are getting a rebuild and want to reduce this risk, there is likely no harm in going with the FD side seal springs, and it very well may help.
B) Increasing the efficiency of the exhaust system will also reduce exhaust port temps. A more efficient exhaust dumps heat more rapidly, reducing buildup.

- Fuel pump failure or high lateral G left turns with low fuel causes fuel starvation under load, creating a lean spike that causes detonation and shatters seals
This is an all-too-frequent failure seen. If you expect frequent full throttle hard left curves, it is recommended to not let the tank get under 1/4 remaining. (like if you have such a curve in your regular driving and could hit it at all sorts of fuel levels). The actual point of failure is somewhat lower than that, and a sudden starvation doesn't MEAN your engine will fail, but it's certainly possible. The OEM fuel pumps can start failing around 60,000 miles (for 2004-2008, the 2009-2012 should be better), though can certainly last far longer. Most fuel pump failures are due to overheating of the pump, and will suddenly stop pumping, which suddenly shuts off the engine inexplicably. Letting the car sit for a while and then restarting should get it started just fine as if nothing happened. If this happens to you, stay low load, low RPM and get it where you can park it for a fuel pump replacement. Going full throttle with a fuel pump failing is dangerous to your engine. I personally know someone who lost their engine to their fuel pump failure, but didn't know it. The dealer didn't know it either, put in a new engine, and while on the shakedown after installation, the fuel pump gave out again and destroyed that engine too.

- Cat failure (even more common than engine failure) causes localized heat and pressure buildup that overstresses the seals and breaks down oil viscosity, leading to various issues
I've covered the issues with cat failure, so this is largely a redundant point. If you can remove it, do it.

- Clogged oil injection lines prevent oil from being injected, leading to excessive apex seal wear and side seal overheating, leading to compression loss and/or catastrophic failure (depending on which fails first)
This is one of the 'silent killers'. The only real symptom of clogged oil injection lines is when oil consumption drops below the 1qt / 1,500miles rate.
A) You can run seafoam through them using engine vacuum as a good cleaning method. There is no set recommendation on how often to do it, but the longer you go between oil changes, the more likely you are to need it more frequently. No shop or dealer will have any idea on how to do this, or even what you are talking about, so just do it yourself for free.
B) If you run the SOHN adapter, this becomes largely negated, as the clean 2-stroke will not be prone to clogging.

- Subpar reman engine quality, starting with low compression that accelerates any other issue (reman quality has improved over the years, but bad apples are still reported)
There isn't anything you can do about getting a reman engine that has poor seal clearances or overly worn parts. So, cross your fingers.



For a specific thread on further steps to take, read HiFlight's excellent thread: https://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-...ries-i-190372/

Last edited by RIWWP; 04-13-2014 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:08 AM
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Questions we can't answer:
(This was adapted from NASIOC's thread here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718033)
The following are questions we cannot answer on RX8Club and the reasons why:

Car insurance questions of any type. Car insurance is metered via the state, city, car year, car model, car trim level, car modifications, driving record, amount of drivers, drivers' age, drivers' marital status, car use, driving record of users, and about 99 other things. All of these components are crunched by the 10,000 different auto insurers to give you 10,000 different quotes. If you have a question, please contact your insurance company or seek quotes. My insurance rates have zero to do with what you will pay and wont be in the same neighborhood, ballpark, or galaxy as yours.

Want a quote that means a crap? Visit one of these online calculators:

www.geico.com
www.progressive.com
www.allstate.com
www.statefarm.com
www.farmers.com
www.libertymutual.com
www.usaa.com

Does that not satisfy you enough? Then check out this Insurance thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/purchasing-financing-insurance-56/what-you-paying-insurance-your-rx-8-a-163071/
That should help you see how massively wide the range is, and maybe you can find someone similar to you. There are other insurance threads as well, so go ahead and use the search methods to locate one before posting a new thread about it.

'How much to fix my damaged RX-8' questions. Posting pics for sympathy is fine. Asking people how much to fix will net you 12,000 guesses. You don't get a diagnosis for cancer online and the same rules apply with car damage. This sounds mean spirited, but it is honestly true.

'Is my car totaled' questions. Pretty much the same as above. Most insurance companies will only total your car if the damage is 75% of the value. This figure varies with each company. Looks account for nothing, having your car totaled is a question of the damage limit or percentage for each particular insurance company. If your car is bent like a banana and they can straighten it under the limit, your car is NOT totaled. If the police officer, your cousin Earl, or the tow truck driver Ted says it's likely to be totaled, that means ZERO to your insurance company. Want to maximize what you get out of an insurance claim? This applies to every car out there, not just RX-8s: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/how-get-most-insurance-claim-218419/ Fantastic thread.

'How much should I pay for my RX-8'? We live in a fair market economy. This means that Bob in Texas and Jan in Indiana buying the same car will not pay the same price. This is further complicated by the fact that Bob has a $2000 down payment, a $1500 trade-in, got to use $1500 incentives in March, pays 4.5% tax, his license is $625, and handling and associated fees in the amount of $725. Jan has a $4500 down payment, no trade-in, got to use $2000 incentives in April, pays 3% tax, her license is $411, and handling and associated fees in the amount of $895.

Even with these complications, let's say that you find out that Bob paid $22,000 and Jan paid $22,500 for a 2005 RX-8 with no options just like you want. Does this mean you will pay between $22K and $22.5K? No. Aside from state taxes, state fees, incentives, and other state and monthly variables, it all boils down to supply and demand. While $22.5K is fine at dealership A, dealership b may take no less than $23.5K.

Always remember: people tend to downplay their paid price to make them seem to be a crafty bargainer for some reason. Their "out the door price" they quote you is almost always missing taxes, trade-in credit, down payment, incentives, etc.

'My Check Engine Light is on, what is wrong type' questions. Any question related to a CEL is worthless unless you list your car type and the PXXXX CEL code. Without both pieces of information you won't get a straight answer. Listing your modifications and the time line between your last mod(s) and the new CEL helps too. We also have a list of all CEL codes here: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/rx-8-technical-info-cel-codes-pcm-pin-list-collision-guide-26291/ If you do a Google search on the site for your CEL code, you will find prior posts and threads of people that have had it, and what they did to resolve it.

Will car X (with mods y and z) beat my car in a race or from a roll type questions. This type of question is called "bench racing". Go to a track and find out. 95% of racing is the driver. Bench racing is all theory, but theories don't win bragging rights or trophies.

I am going for a tune with XXX mods, what will my WHP be? Let's follow the chain of factors: your tuner's ability, the type/condition of your spark plugs, your fuel octane, the temperature, the elevation, the humidity, the dyno SAE correction factor, the dyno type, whether it's a loading dyno or not, your mods, whether your mods are working properly or not. Let's say Timmy in Colorado says you should get 200 WHP with those mods and your session in Califiornia nets you 190WHP. Guess what? 190 WHP is all you are ever going to get and second guessing the tuner seems to be your only alternative when in fact you should second guess all the factors above as they all play a roll. The fact is your WHP figures are your WHP figures and there is not such thing as average when it comes to dyno figures except for possibly 100% stock vehicles.

What turbo do I have? The only surefire method of finding out what turbo you have is to pay for an inspection at a reputable turbo shop such as Forced Performance or Blouch. It should run under $100 and while they are in there, they can tell you what it is and if it's good or needs a rebuild, new seals, etc. to run right/better.
This was left in for laughs...

Questions we CAN answer:
Most issues that the RX-8 faces are easily answered when you post detailed, descriptive, and accurate explanations of what symptoms you are having with your RX-8. Many of our issues share common symptoms with at least one other issue. Several of the really common issues share MOST of their symptoms with another problem. So when you post: "power loss?" We can't really tell you what is going on. We can only throw the book of possible issues at you for you to figure out.

The amount of assistance you receive is DIRECTLY associated to how much detail you provide!

So what do you need to share?

A) Break each issue you are seeing out by itself. For each of these issues, detail what RPMs it occurs in, and what RPMs it doesn't. Detail how much throttle you are giving when it occurs.
B) Detail what the ambient temperatures are that you are seeing, what the gauges are doing.
C) If you have a CEL, GIVE US THE CODE! (most auto-parts stores will pull the code for free for you. Otherwise, you can buy a code reader for LESS than the dealer's diagnostic price, giving you a discount on that one, and free code pulling for the rest of the device's life, across every car you own) (Hint, search with Google and site:rx8club.com <CEL> before posting. You will probably find your answer.)
D) Detail any possible modifications or repairs that have been made within the last 3,000 miles, even if it seems like it's not related.
E) Detail the age and mileage of the car, and what maintenance history it has been on. NOT just "it's gotten regular maintenance" because there are wear items that are not part of "regular maintenance" for dealers and most shops.
F) Since many issues are ignition related, and you are going to get asked, give us the mileage and age of ignition coils, wires, and plugs.
G) Detail out when it DOESN'T happen. This is just as critical as when it does!

Another thing to keep in mind is that unless you are being a complete jackass, and unless the person responding to you is ignorant about the issues, our answers are going to be pretty accurate, if not dead on. Even if you don't like the option. We have no stake in your finances, no stake in making money off of it. We DON'T like to see unhealthy or busted 8s. So if you choose to ignore our recommendations, do so at your own peril, and don't come whining to us that you shoveled money at the problem that was completely unneeded.

Last edited by RIWWP; 04-13-2014 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:17 PM
  #40  
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This was written before the introduction of the New Member subforum, and established members were REALLY hard on new members. If you are new, you still might get some of this outside of the new member subforum, but in general it is far better than it was. The text below is retained mostly to understand why you might be getting a harsh reaction in the future.

Why are we so hard / harsh on newbies?
You may notice that many new owners join this forum and promptly create a thread that generates lots of negative feedback from the people already here, the newbie ends up getting butthurt about it and claims it's a "mean forum" or "we are all dicks", etc... Not every newbie of course, and just the fact that you are reading this thread means you probably won't subject yourself to that. But why do we do it?

Here is a fantastic post from TeamRX8 on why.
Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
This involves several issues. The first being that you can't see beyond your own immediate needs and wants. This is not Wiki8Club. It took many of us years and years of involvement and reading to amass the knowledge.

Imagine somebody coming here daily, in fact it is often multiple people daily, asking if not demanding the same information over and over again. We are not your on demand servants. We are people just like you with other priorities and demands in our lives, limited time, our own personal interests for being here, etc. Why should we spend that time catering to people that come here seeking instant gratification?

That leaves us with two options. We can either ignore you completely or we can tell that the info is here if you bother to make the effort. However, over several years of telling people this you eventually get fed up dealing with the continuous stream of people seeking instant gratification yet you still would rather point them in the right direction so you just bark at them to get the point across. Imagine someone coming to your house, going to your living room, pulling their pants down, and taking a dump right there on the carpet just because they didn't know any better. You might be annoyed and yet also understanding because they didn't know any better. Now imagine this being a different person doing this every day. It wouldn't be long before you just as soon they go away and never come back.

Almost every day there is some clueless dolt posting a tech or troubleshooting question in the DiY area, despite there being a sticky thread at the top saying to only post threads there with DIY instructions and subsequent discussion of same. The real issue is that people think they are free to just come here and do as they damn well please and there's no need for etiquette, rules, structure, or organization unless it serves their own personal interest.

Well guess what? We're not here to cater to new uninformed people that come in here trampling all over everything regardless if they're ignorant, just don't care, or whatever. This is like any social community and so if you make waves you better expect to deal with it. If you don't like it then get the f' out because the established community could care less about some newbie whining about not getting what they want immediately. We do care about you clogging up the search engine with useless threads on already established subjects, which there is a dedicated thread on this very subject in this same forum area no less. It took me 10 minutes to explain this. Now imagine multiple people daily requiring it, so you make a Sticky thread at the top that says "read this first" and yet every single new person just like yourself thinks they are beyond trying to fit in properly so that this forum operates smoothly for all of us.

You probably don't read Japanese, but the line in my sig is a well known Japanese proverb that reads "the nail that sticks out gets hammered". You made yourself that nail.
A prime example of the crap we have to deal with from newbies is here in this thread: https://www.rx8club.com/lounge-4/need-mods-241974/ PLEASE don't be that guy.

Most of the people that are being the hammer for those nails use either the New Posts feature (https://www.rx8club.com/search.php?do=getnew) or the Live! feature (https://www.rx8club.com/misc.php?product=vblive) (both are in your top bar under the banner), and see posts with issues pretty quickly. We do not use these features with the express intention of flaming and bashing. We use them so that when someone posts up an actual issue that needs actual help, we can react quickly to their request.

We do not do this because we are paid to do it, we do it because we believe in our community (at one level or another). We want to improve it and make it better, so as we have time during our normal lives we look for issues we can help with, we look for new ideas, new projects, etc... But, in the process, we see all the garbage that people clutter the forum with because they feel themselves above reading what has already been posted, and that garbage gets to us. So thank you for reading, and your help is certainly appreciated in guiding people this way too.

Last edited by RIWWP; 06-09-2014 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:22 PM
  #41  
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Useful Links: (re-write)
- Official FAQ, including common terms and issues: Faq - Update - RX8Club.com
- Acronyms and Terminology: { FS } 2004 Rx-8 Salvage - RX8Club.com
- Congratz, you just bought an 8 (and a few helpful things to do) Congratulations, you got an 8. - RX8Club.com
- TSB Thread: https://www.rx8club.com/trouble-shoo...4/#post3258119
- Proper jacking and jackstand points: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...0/#post4603052
- How to properly reset the various learned parameters in the ECU: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...memory-169443/

Last edited by RIWWP; 06-19-2014 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:17 PM
  #42  
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How to use the Forum:

(If you, as a new member, have a request for something else to add, please PM it to me and I will add it)

The Subforum page:



A single post:



The Quick Reply box:



Editing your post:
Attached Thumbnails New and Potential Owners START HERE!-sub_forum.png   New and Potential Owners START HERE!-post_description.png   New and Potential Owners START HERE!-quick_reply.png   New and Potential Owners START HERE!-edit_post.png  

Last edited by RIWWP; 06-09-2014 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 06-09-2014, 10:22 AM
  #43  
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Thread structure has been revised, and many posts have been overhauled significantly. Rewrites are still in progress for many sections.

June 9th: Adding 'How to use the Forum'
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:23 AM
  #44  
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I have moved RX8Help.com to a new host, and the site has undergone many improvements. The most obvious one is that the site is once again mobile friendly, way over-due since something like 80% of the visitors are from mobile devices.

I'm returning to put more time and effort into the site and the content again, so check back periodically or subscribe to the mailing list.
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