I have 50 posts a page so only ~110 pages total.

I don't mind reading it. Even the stuff that likely won't apply to me should help me understand the language being used when discussing AP tunes. Still 5000 posts takes time to digest.

Looks like I should be fine with the Cobb AP Stage 1 tune even with my revi intake. I'm hoping I'll be comfortable enough with it to test it out in Florida on at least one of the days I'm running. If that's the case then I can adjust from the AP stage 1 tune as I go next year. Hopefully Kane's auto-tune software plays well with the AP. Waiting to delve into that thread until after I finish the main AP discussion.

Also I could be wrong but it looks like I can pull codes with the AP for any 8 regardless of whether or not its installed. That'll come in handy at meets.

 

It'll be interesting to compare your non-MM tune to my MM tune.

 

You gonna order it for the Spring?

Pretty sure his stage 1 tune is going to be very close to the Cobb tune in terms of performance. No way to tell for sure but I have a hunch he wrote their stage 1 tune.

It's the oil flow and CEL masking that will be of benefit with his tune that I don't think I'll get with the Cobb. Beyond that it's the stage 2 and 3 tunes that'll help you get full performance out of your car. Cobb doesn't supply anything beyond stage 1 and I doubt I'll be comfortable enough tweaking things myself until I've had a few months of logging/playing to understand my car better. Plus I probably would dive in on a midpipe until either the new Fluid pipe shows good sound results or the RB dual-resonated pipe makes it to production.

 

Hopefully it'll arrive before the end of the year.
Maybe I'll get his tune by Spring.

 

Good idea.
Trying to reach an average of 12.2:1 MBT across the entire RPM range at WOT is beyond my level of expertise.
But its basically what you shoot for to get optimal torque and power output with our NA motor.
I'll let Jeff tune my car until I learn how to do it myself.

 

I'm thinking of having a poker game New Year's Eve. Gauging interest. Spouses/girlfriends welcome. Anyone interested. I don't go to bars on Amateur Night...............

 

Id have to pass doc....workin New Years Day.

 

I'm out of town, otherwise I'd make it for sure.

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Cleaned the MAF with the non CFC contact cleaner last night and followed the procedure for the "deep creep" when I had the MAF sensor open and I just sprayed the **** out of the throttle butterfly valve.

Runs better, more power surges... but still stalling like a *****. So, we may be on the right track.
I read about this problem with Fords... does out car have an idle control air valve? If so, is it possible that it is stuck closed and no air is getting to the engine and causing it to die?

I'm thinking for saturday we can pull off the intake and throttle controls and clean/inspect those. Then, time permitting, do the zoom engine cleaner.

I'm totally open to exploring any other ideas that you guys may have. However, with the increased power surges and the fact that the engine appears to be running better I'm relieved because those really point away from the worst case of a blown apex seal or something more serious.

 

You CAN just send your wallet...........................

 

Lol. You'd know if you blew an apex seal. And you'd definitely know if it was more serious since it'd look something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZh5Y...ext=1&index=12

 

Don't the '04's have a slight loss of compression etc and need motor replacement? Minus running well at speed and everything, some of the symptoms seem to match up...

At least having an explosion blast my hood open would be cooler and easier to diagnose.

 

Nothing to do with the '04s. The engine as a whole up to the '08s. Weakened or crack seals from combination of not enough oil flow and too much carbon buildup would lead to a loss of compression.

If you ever actually blow a seal you're car will start making a noise that has the same effect as finger nails on a chalkboard.

Heh. Almost never explodes tho. One of the speedsource cars on the last race lost a rotor to a blown apex seal due to not enough oil getting to the engine (they had a leak). Anyway the blown rotor ended up just being a big smoke cloud. Nothing excited.

 

That's one evening the wife likes to get decked out and taken out on the town, though I know what you mean about amateur night.

 

I talked to Brian today about things. He doesn't pay attention until you smack him around a little. :P He does say that the one code you are throwing is from an IACV. He is pretty sure that we have an IACV and that you should try tapping on it with a screwdriver or hammer at idle. If it is the IACV then your idle will be fixed when you tap on it. *shrug* He was going to run out to his car and let me know later.

 

The throttle body flap remains open 5% at idle, other than that the Secondary Shutter Valve (SSV) closes under 3250rpm.

Throttle body is easy to remove... only 4 bolts (and you have the coolant bypassed so that makes it even easier).

The intake manifold extension is a PIAT to remove.
I almost got mine off this morning... the bolts connecting the extension to the intake manifold are a REAL PITA to reach (or really the rear bolts are a pain).
After I finally got those removed I started to pry the extension from the intake manifold and realized the extension was also bolted to a bracket where the nuts are damn dear impossible to reach.
It almost appears that I'll have to pull out the oil inlet tube along with the extension (the bracket connects these two together).
At work I'll read more through the shop manual and see if I can find an alternative way to get this out.

 

My coils/plugs are in the mail. Might even be able to bring 'em down on Saturday.

 

Just got off the phone with Brian. Steve he says to disregard what he was thinking earlier. He still believes it is the IACV throwing your CEL but the IACV is somewhere in the throttle body which you don't want to touch with a hammer. :P He says that it is probably a bad solenoid or just plain stuck. Taking off the intake manifold and cleaning it might help...but it might just be electrical.

And since you are working on yours Jon, and I was talking to Brian about, these pictures might help.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-multimedia-photo-gallery-6/easy_e1-blew-up-ssxi-157473/

 

There are no valves in the TB (besides the flap itself).
The flap is motor controlled.
I'll take a pic when I get home to show you guys what it looks like.

 

more detailed pictures would help Brian a lot. All we had to go with was what we could find here and what Brian could see on his car in the dark. There has to be something to control the idle air. So either there is a computer that controls the flap or the flap just doesn't shut all the way. In talking to Brian we were talking about a mod that is done on the 6 called a "Throttle Body Coolant Bypass" which supposedly increases fuel economy and throttle response. Both of which would be achieved by not heating the air around the throttle body. Now this would adjust the density of the air right? So if this was done on Steve's car and it is trying to relearn trim in these temps could it have a problem and make things with the MAF be wrong? Might putting that coolant hose back on fix it?

 

Actually both.
As I mentioned above, the TB flap is motorized and remains open 5 degrees at idle.

Temps have nothing to do with MAF (Mass Air Flow), you're thinking of the IAT (Intake Air Temp) sensor.
Plus the MAF/IAT is before the TB, so they won't know what occurs downstream (like the TB).

Its worth a shot.

 

So I've been thinking about our throttle body and how it works (internally).
When you move the flap by hand, it has resistance that feels like a stepper motor (hence why I believed it was motorized).
Our TB doesn't look like an ordinary TB with idle switch, WOT switch, or a vacuum retard port.
Attached you'll see what the TB looks like (from our shop manual).
The top looks like a motor housing with a belt running down the side to the flap (another reason I thought it was motorized).
But reading the manual, it mentions spring force... which you won't (or shouldn't need to) have with a stepper motor.
There are no vacuum lines running to the TB for an actuator/solenoid.
Only one wire harness and two ports for the coolant.

I searched this forum to see if anyone has every taken the TB apart, but no luck.
So guess what I'm doing when I get home!

I'll take pics of the progress and keep you all inform.
Its possible I was wrong with my "theory" of it being motorized, but everything looked/felt like it was a stepper motor.
I'll find out for sure.

 

Talked to another buddy tonight and he said something similar to what Brian had mentioned early in our call that I forgot about. They both said something about the gap not being set properly on the plug. And while I realize that we have no gap to set...it does bring up some questions about how the car runs with mismatched parts. New coils...New wires...old plugs...Old coils New wires New plugs...etc... Steve I think I read that you swapped back all the parts...but have you mismatched your parts yet? Might be something to try.

 

Steve had this issue before the plugs were swapped.
Only aftermarket setup he has (in that area) are the plug wires.

I've run "mis-matched" setups just fine. I ran with AutoEXE plug wires and stock coil/plugs, I then ran AutoEXE wires with RX7 plugs, so I doubt its anything with "mis-matching".
It would be worth trying a coil swap... which I can bring mine Saturday to try out.

 

Well.. I couldn't take the throttle body apart because the housing is riveted on.
I referred to the Renesis Training Module and got this from the TB section:
So this confirmed my assumption that its controlled by a stepper motor.

 

Well, I called in a few rx7 buddies too and let them take a run at this.

Plugs mismatched stuff, etc... those would all effect the car during operation too. Honestly, my car is running pretty well, except for this stalling at idle.

They pretty much said its got to be something electric. Which would also follow with how this problem arose - from the battery disconnect.

However, that doesn't address the CEL codes - which is why i'm still wanting to clean the intake and throttle body. CEL codes say intake is screwed up and dirty. So we'll trouble shoot those also.

If we try all of these and they don't begin to fix the problem. I'll probably put the cat back on and take it to cascade.