Hah! You'll be lucky if you get whatever is shipping by next Christmas. I love the adventures of SmartPost™.

I have the 880. It's without a doubt my most favorite thing in the world. It beats my car by virtue of working in the Winter.

 

My friend has the 880 too. I love the display.

 

I actually got one for each one of my siblings with entertainment centers last year. Then programmed them. Now whenever I go to either of their houses I have instant command over their entire lineup.

Bad news btw. No harness/plugs yet so no shipping of the coils. Looks like at least another week. Too bad too. Supposed to be a dry weekend so I would have been able to drive around a bit to make sure the car was running smooth.

Oh well. The AP is waiting for me at home though.

 

Ok... just got back from Mazda of Wooster... I'll tell you the total price at the end. No peaking, just read...

Threw Codes:
P0506 (Throttle body control system)
P2070 (Intake manifold control system)
(no surprise) P0420 for the cat malfunctioning... becauses its in a box in my office.

They're stating that the aftermarket intake (racing beat) cause the carbon build-up in the intake manifold, and there is a possibility of internal engine damage.
Also, because of the RB intake, that it voids the engine warrenty. . . So, my thoughts are to take the car to Midas. Tell them to install the old Cat.
Perhaps, pending your advice, I have the stock airbox and perhaps I should do that also before taking into Cascade Mazda with the engine TSB and requesting a compression check because my motor be bad.

My problems sound the exact same to Rotary Rasp in the following thread:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=P0506

TSB for loss of engine power:
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...14-08-1924.pdf

Guys - this seems to fit (sort of) the power loss I thought was plugs could be do to bad seals... sure it improved, but not enough. I cannot afford 6 grand and I wouldn't mind a new engine.

Finally,
Total Cost (out of warrenty) from Park Mazda Wooster. $6,500 bucks. I almost threw up. 2 grand just for a cat.... wow.

 

This is what the previous owner had email me regarding the RB Intake:

Thoughts?

 

WOW...
They sell RB items at Mazda.
Might want to check the throttle body flap and see if its got oil on it (and clean the MAF).
I doubt the RB intake caused this to your engine, just the dealer trying to find an excuse not to cover you under warranty.

 

I just read through the thread and saw Zoom tell you not to switch dealers and have them "man up".
I do agree that dealers should "man up", but I've had my car at Cascade with a midpipe and aftermarket intake (along with an aftermarket pulley and spliced power steering cable) and they didn't argue about warranty.
Might be worth a shot.

 

Well... plan of action at this point is to get the cat re-installed. (the pros can do that, I'm not wrestling with exhaust bolts ever again)

Install stock airbox. I have 90% of mine laying around from the box-o-**** that the previous owner gave me. The missing parts, Ryan will give me because he loves me.

We'll remove the grounding kit (which I still don't know what it does, exactly, but it makes it look less stock)
We'll leave the stereo for now. . .

Then we'll try the ECU reset again. If the problem remains, than I should be in good shape to take it to cascade without any heat about engine warranty. As long as I can clear the CEL codes also.

If I need a new engine... then... umm, yea! But, if its not covered, (which there isn't a reason in the world it shouldn't... boo!

 

Ok...well Marlon doesn't come around here much so I will tell you what I have read before. IF Park filled out everything and gave you a proper estimate...your warranty is already voided and there is nothing you or anyone else can do. It goes into the database and you are done. Their opinion of what is going on is...I will I say it....plausible...yea, that works...so you may be in trouble here. For the stock airbox...when you put it in...I would personally pull off the entire intake manifold and clean it with that spray *****. I would do this first with the RB as it may just fix everything. A stock cat is expensive as ****...so putting it back on is best if you take it anywhere else. I would put it back on yourself as those bolts won't be seized this time and should come off no big deal.

And as for the previous owner...you know this already...he is a ******* idiot. The warranty is pretty clear on voiding things. You can't even install a MazdaSpeed intake without voiding the same part of your warranty. They will not accept a RB one if they can't even accept one they built and designed. I would however go up to Westside. The c6c gang has had great results up there and have a working relationship with the service manager Sandy.

 

Honestly Steve... those exhaust bolts won't be trouble this time.
You have new bolts and I have a 24" breaker bar.
But if you really don't feel like messing with it, then that's fine.
Are we going to schedule another day to install the stock intake?

 

You would personally pull off the entire intake manifold?
This coming from someone who doesn't like to get dirty.

I may not take the manifold extension (the black part) off, but I would have tried cleaning the throttle body and the MAF sensor.
But it seems like Steve is so fed up with this car that he is willing to just go back to stock.
Of course if we install the stock intake and it still gives us trouble, we can still consider the TB or MAF (though truthfully I'm sure we'll clean those anyway while doing the swap... so we'll never know for sure).

 

Yes...I would. Because getting dirty vs the 6K for the engine work...well worth it. That and I have great friends like you and Brian that I can bribe with beer to do the dirty part of the job for me. :P

 

This is true.

Steve,
Before you rush into all this, why don't we get together and look over some simple stuff (like the e-shaft sensor and plate, TB, MAF) just to verify everything.
Your mid-pipe and intake will not cause this issue, so you going back to stock would ONLY be for taking it in to get a new engine.

 

I didn't realize you were planning on dropping it off at the dealer or I would have advised against it. Park isn't exactly known for being overly cool about warranty work

There's literally no way that a carbon build up is caused by the intake. Let's swap out the revi and the Midpipe/exhaust before ur next trip to a dealer but between that and now let's roll through REAL possible causes and try to fix your issue without having to waste 6000 dollars.

Also keep in mind your car was fine before the battery reset. If this was due to a buildup the reset wouldn't have done a thing.

 

I really wish I had a garage... we all could work on the car and when we get frustrated, head on down to the basement, shoot some pool and drink drink drink.
You have people here who are willing to help Steve... don't forget that.

 

Thanks guys... I just took it over to mazda for pretty much a quick fix, because thats what I thought it was... but 6 grand puts things into perspective. I'm much more calm now... (i did get into a fight at my hockey game tonight... so, no longer can I say that my car has not indirectly caused bloodshed)

Jon: I agree - if possible, we just need to go through some simple things before I get all wacky (per my previous posts) The car was running fine before... However, I'm curious if these other CEL codes popped up after installing the midpipe. I doubt they're lying about the codes. I guess we'll just take this slowly, and as long as we agree I'm not hurting the car more by driving it, it'll be fine.

Perhaps this is a good time purchase a winter beater (Mom, can santa bring me an old CJ7 for christmas?)

But... I drove it to hockey tonight, I've gotten pretty skilled at eliminating the stalls, but it dropped to 500 rpm in the garage just a few minutes ago, but jumped back up to 750... and my sweet temp gauge said I was at my 180 operating temp. Maybe it is a special ed car after all?


Yea... (Jon) when I left you that message, that was actually me being more calm than I was before. . . but, to that some note, I put 150 miles on the car since yesterday... I hate to say it like this, but this problem cannot be that serious.

I did take a speed 3 out for a spin while out there at Wooster - I personally don't think that car can put that much power onto the road effectively.
I also want to take them my stock cat and see if I can sell it to them for half price of what they wanted to sell it to me for: $1050 bucks.

I'll just drive it... I do mostly highway anyway. Until we can get some free time if you guys want to come down and take a little looksie. I'm already tied up this weekend with a young lady coming to visit me! Hooray!
But, next weekend and week look wide open - last week of classes is this week.

Other John: want to come down to the shop in Canton and share in the magic? Its actually pretty clean and you won't get dirty at all.

 

Well, voiding a warranty with a non manufacturer part that is proven (lab tested) to meet or exceed OEM standards is against the law. I'm just seeing if Racing Beat has such a test documented that they could send me.
Its some Moser vs Moss act or something. I have it written down at the office.
KN makes it pretty clear... but I know its not exactly the same.

http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm

 

I'm not saying that they are lying about the codes, but the codes have nothing to do with the RB intake OR the mid-pipe.
Your car probably had problems, it just adjusted itself one day and you never realized it because you haven't reset the PCM since you got the car.
I wouldn't be surprised if the previous owner had this issue and didn't say anything (might be why he sold the car).

I'll explain the two codes so you understand what is going on and why it can't by the intake or mid-pipe.

P0506 failure is when the idle air control system RPM is lower than expected.
The PCM compares the actual idle speed with the target idle speed when the engine is running.
If the actual idle speed is lower than targeted by 100 RPM, the PCM determines that the idle air control system RPM is lower than expected.
Causes for this code are:

• Drive-by-wire control system malfunction
• A/C cut-off control malfunction
• Generator control system malfunction
• Intake-air line clogged
  • Air cleaner clogged
  • Throttle body clogged
• Purge solenoid valve malfunction
• IAT sensor malfunction
• ECT sensor malfunction
• APP sensor malfunction
• Eccentric shaft position sensor malfunction
• Insufficient compression
  • Engine oil malfunction
  • Oil pressure malfunction
  • Metering oil pump malfunction
  • Metering oil pump control malfunction
  • Engine malfunction
• Fuel line pressure malfunction
• PCM malfunction

P2070 fails for SSV stuck open.
The PCM monitors the input signal from the SSV switch when the PCM turns the SSV solenoid valve on.
If the input signal is on, the PCM determines that the SSV is stuck open.
Causes for this code are:

• SSV stuck open
• SSV control malfunction
• SSV actuator malfunction
• SSV solenoid valve malfunction
• SSV switch malfunction
• PCM malfunction

Now some of these are a quick inspection and some components we can start swapping (like the SSV solenoid that has been known to go bad).
I'm pretty sure the VFAD and SSV are the same solenoid, so I can bring that since I don't use the VFAD.

I didn't even know you left a message until you wrote this.
I was like, "WTF" and I checked my phone and it said I had a voice mail message.
Sorry about that. I get off work at 6am and usually don't go to bed until 10am, so feel free to call me this morning if you want to try some basics.

 

That act stated that they can't void your warranty simply for the fact of you having the part on your car. However, if it is determined that the part did cause the failure your warranty is voided and you foot the bill for the work. This might be your saving grace here since you didn't have them do any work on the car in an attempt to fix it.

 

And if you have a few thousand dollars you want to spend on legal fees then feel free to fight it.

And the reality is that successfully explaining to a judge or jury that your aftermarket intake doesn't effect the carbon buildup on a rotary engine is probably about as likely as Mazda giving you a brand knew 16x because they feel bad for you.

 

If you prevail under the Magnuson-Moss Act the manufacturer generally is required to pay your legal fees. But if you lose it's going to cost you a lot more in fees and expenses than a "few thousand". I find clients often have very little idea just how expensive it is to litigate. That should never dissuade someone who's truly getting screwed-over on a warranty issue - the reason the Act provides for attorney's fees is to prevent corporate giants from running roughshod over consumers. But you need to make sure you have a good case and that requires retaining a qualified expert, and that will run into substantial bucks that you will not recoup if you lose.

I took a look to see if there was any Ohio case law interpreting the MMA in instances where a manufacturer denies a warranty based on the installation of after market parts (while the MMA provides for a cause of action, you need to look to each state's individual body of law to ascertain what actually constitutes a breach). I really didn't find anything directly on point. In fact nationwide I found little recent case law on this issue. I did find a recent Tennessee case that was directly on point and that did uphold the notion that a manufacturer needs to demonstrate that the aftermarket mods did cause the condition for which warranty service was being sought. That case involved a truck that needed a new engine, and Ford claimed that the problem was caused by an after market air filter, exhaust and a high performance chip. Each side produced experts, but Ford prevailed because the truck owner used a "shade tree mechanic" whose opinion was disregarded because he was deemed unqualified to render an opinion.

If someone were to litigate this and produce a qualified expert to support his position, a judge would be unable (and probably unwilling) to do anything other than let a jury decide who is right on the question of causation. Having a case like this go to a jury makes manufacturers very nervous, and that's why they devote substantial effort to trying to get them tossed out before a case ever gets that far. This is because no one can ever predict what a jury will do, and in an economic climate like we're experiencing now it's my belief that juries are holding plaintiff's feet to the fire in terms of proving they have legitimate cases, but once that burden is met they are extremely willing (even anxious) to SPANK corporate defendants for perceived mistreatment of the little guy.

Hopefully my rambling is all moot and you will not need a new engine at the end of the day.

 

Wow... this has been a long Woot-Off.
Still haven't seen the bag-o-crap yet!!!

I was tempted to buy the USB Pole Dancer for $10:
http://www.woot.com/Blog/ViewEntry.aspx?Id=6898

 

So... you guys free the 20th and want to come down to the shop and have a party? . . . A "6 million dollar man" party for the car.

-We can rebuilt him. . . We have the technology...make him faster, stronger, and use less gas at idle.

Basically, just if anyone wants to come down and help me trouble shoot this problem when I have some time. My last day of classes is today and my time will open up significantly next week.

Possible projects, but not limited to...

Removal of grounding kit (I may get to some of these sooner than next saturday)
Possible Battery Replacement
Cleaning of MAF
Cleaning of air filter
Carbon build-up cleaner (ryan? Seafoam stuff?)
Re-installation of stock cat. (honestly, the rattle of the midpipe has gotten worse. I might as well remove it and perhaps just make it a straight pipe.)

Then, just diagnostics of the charging system, check the intake for possible leaks, etc... I don't know too much about the other potential issues, so I would need some help there.

Let me know... I'm sure I can arrange for a meal to provided at the least for anyone willing to donate their expertise. Or just keep me calm enough from not picking the car up with the crane and dropping it and getting insurance money claiming an "industrial accident."

 

Let me make some suggestions to the list:

I'll think of other ideas to try in case these fail, but we need to start somewhere.

 

Im down for comin down and pointing and laughing. Who knows...yall can teach me something else.