RX-9 to be a hybrid!
06-07-2011, 04:28 PM
#101
Registered
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally have no problems with hydrogen, but engineering will never make hydrogren have more energy content than gasoline. Gasoline is used because it simply has the highest energy content, and takes relatively little energy to put into that form. Electricity is great, easy to produce, but hard to store.
The hybrids just attempt to combine these possibilities, but using the superior energy content in gasoline to provide the electricity cheaply.
But, I was mainly talking about his locked in view that hybrid = heavy.
The series hybrid Namir, with an 800cc turbo rotary as the combustion engine powering 4 electric motors, produces at least twice the power of the RX-8, all wheel drive, 4 times the fuel mileage, 30% higher top speed. And guess what? It's less than half the weight.
Don't get locked in that "hybrid must be heavy" because 1 company made the worst possible hybrid setup and turned a potentially 2,250lb car into a 3,000lb slug. Batteries make it heavy, not "hybrid". Hybrids are possible without batteries.
The hybrids just attempt to combine these possibilities, but using the superior energy content in gasoline to provide the electricity cheaply.
But, I was mainly talking about his locked in view that hybrid = heavy.
The series hybrid Namir, with an 800cc turbo rotary as the combustion engine powering 4 electric motors, produces at least twice the power of the RX-8, all wheel drive, 4 times the fuel mileage, 30% higher top speed. And guess what? It's less than half the weight.
Don't get locked in that "hybrid must be heavy" because 1 company made the worst possible hybrid setup and turned a potentially 2,250lb car into a 3,000lb slug. Batteries make it heavy, not "hybrid". Hybrids are possible without batteries.
06-07-2011, 05:14 PM
#102
Registered
http://blog.caranddriver.com/mazda-n...slim-but-real/
Looks like it doesn't matter anymore. According to this no rx9. And maybe no more rotary ever. I'm guessing it was because they were having issues making the 16x or it was too costly? This could be a sad time in rotary history. I also heard that the guy that developed the 13b quit mazda? Does anyone know if this is true or not?
Looks like it doesn't matter anymore. According to this no rx9. And maybe no more rotary ever. I'm guessing it was because they were having issues making the 16x or it was too costly? This could be a sad time in rotary history. I also heard that the guy that developed the 13b quit mazda? Does anyone know if this is true or not?
06-07-2011, 05:23 PM
#103
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
http://blog.caranddriver.com/mazda-n...slim-but-real/
Looks like it doesn't matter anymore. According to this no rx9. And maybe no more rotary ever. I'm guessing it was because they were having issues making the 16x or it was too costly? This could be a sad time in rotary history. I also heard that the guy that developed the 13b quit mazda? Does anyone know if this is true or not?
Looks like it doesn't matter anymore. According to this no rx9. And maybe no more rotary ever. I'm guessing it was because they were having issues making the 16x or it was too costly? This could be a sad time in rotary history. I also heard that the guy that developed the 13b quit mazda? Does anyone know if this is true or not?
They don't offer anything to back it up. Even people that discuss it can only point to the challenges Mazda has. Which, by the way, they have had this entire time, and are nothing new.
It's just editors spinning the rumor mill.
This hybrid rumor has more weight, as it references patents and technology Mazda has, but it's still, in the end, just rumor.
06-07-2011, 06:21 PM
#104
Registered
If you take their "confirmation" as fact without actually requiring them to confirm it, I've got some beach front property in Kansas for sale, cheap!
They don't offer anything to back it up. Even people that discuss it can only point to the challenges Mazda has. Which, by the way, they have had this entire time, and are nothing new.
It's just editors spinning the rumor mill.
This hybrid rumor has more weight, as it references patents and technology Mazda has, but it's still, in the end, just rumor.
They don't offer anything to back it up. Even people that discuss it can only point to the challenges Mazda has. Which, by the way, they have had this entire time, and are nothing new.
It's just editors spinning the rumor mill.
This hybrid rumor has more weight, as it references patents and technology Mazda has, but it's still, in the end, just rumor.
lol. But yea I don't know where they get their info from or anything but I guess just pointing out there is a possibilty they scrapped it. I hope they didn't though. I feel like all the problems the rotary has today are just waiting to get fixed (mostly fuel consumption). Poor Mazda has had their work cut out for them though. For piston engines there are dozens of car companies putting a lot of R&D into them to improve them. Yet for the rotor its only Mazda. And it is still better than the piston engine in several ways. So they are going to have some hardships with it. I'm just worried they don't make enough money off of it to benefit. The RX8 is not a high selling car and it also is not an expensive car. Don't get me wrong if mazda discontinued the rotary I would disown them as my carmaker (but still keep the rx8 cuz I'm a hypocrite 
) however it would not surprise me and the rational part of my brain while very small and insignificant would understand.
06-07-2011, 06:59 PM
#105
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
That's why I cheer on the sales of their other models 
More R+D money for the rotary.
Just like I cheer on 200mpg+ commuter cars, leave more gas for those of us that love burnin it!
More R+D money for the rotary.
Just like I cheer on 200mpg+ commuter cars, leave more gas for those of us that love burnin it!
06-07-2011, 11:04 PM
#106
Registered
06-08-2011, 08:15 AM
#107
2008 40th Anniversary
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If Mazda has given up on the rotary, they sure have a lot of space and money invested in it on their webpage...
http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rot...tml?link_id=sc
http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rot...tml?link_id=sc
06-08-2011, 09:13 AM
#108
Registered
That is quite a bit. I feel like the reason they have kept it is because it is what they are known for. I think it might help the sales of their other models just by getting people into the store. It just gets their name in peoples mind. So I think they promote it as much as possible. But yea like I said have no clue what car and drivers source is and I hope they arecompletey wrongwhich it looks like they might be
06-08-2011, 09:38 AM
#109
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
C+D's 'source' might just be a random Mazda gardener. So true from their information, but their source might not know what he is talking about.
As noted in the thread discussing the C+D article, I work for a fortune 50 corporation, and every day I deal with issues where not everyone in the company knows the full details on a given project. Hell, even the people involved in the project usually have at least part of their facts messed up.
Unless it's an official Mazda press release or statement, I place doubts on any statement of what will happen or what will not happen.
The only non-official statements I accept at all are ones which are much less tangible in nature. Like the son of the RX-7's designer stating "I would love to design the next RX-7". Doesn't mean they aren't, doesn't mean they won't, doesn't mean they will do so, etc... It also doesn't mean the next rotary will be called the RX-7, or that it won't be.
Mazda working on a rotary without the RX name is possible, Mazda working on a rotary with an RX name that isn't 7,8,9, etc... is possible. Mazda not working on anything at all is possible, etc...
There is usually a reasonable way that any given story can still be true in relation to another given story that apparently is in complete conflict with a surface scan.
For example, the link in that website has direct information where a hydrogen rotary is powering a hybrid Mazda5 in tests in Japan and Norway
And it is using "hybrid" to refer to the dual fuel, not dual powertrain. It's still an accurate use of the word, but not what people think of when they hear it.
None of these articles even mention that at all, but is entirely possible where they get the foundations of the rumors "hybrid rotary", and the editors leap to the assumption that it's a sports car with a a hybrid powertrain, and commenters leap to that it's going to be heavy with lots of batteries.
See what I mean? Completely different result from what may actually be the case.
[sidetrack]
Another note, they made a hydrogen rotary Miata that I'd love to get my hands on
[/sidetrack]
To me, the rotary isn't dead until Mazda makes an announcement and dissolves the rotary development department. If they keep the department AT ALL, AT ANY EMPLOYEE STAFF LEVEL.... then it means that there is still hope. Even if that hope is apparently delayed 10,20,30,40,50 years in the future.
As noted in the thread discussing the C+D article, I work for a fortune 50 corporation, and every day I deal with issues where not everyone in the company knows the full details on a given project. Hell, even the people involved in the project usually have at least part of their facts messed up.
Unless it's an official Mazda press release or statement, I place doubts on any statement of what will happen or what will not happen.
The only non-official statements I accept at all are ones which are much less tangible in nature. Like the son of the RX-7's designer stating "I would love to design the next RX-7". Doesn't mean they aren't, doesn't mean they won't, doesn't mean they will do so, etc... It also doesn't mean the next rotary will be called the RX-7, or that it won't be.
Mazda working on a rotary without the RX name is possible, Mazda working on a rotary with an RX name that isn't 7,8,9, etc... is possible. Mazda not working on anything at all is possible, etc...
There is usually a reasonable way that any given story can still be true in relation to another given story that apparently is in complete conflict with a surface scan.
For example, the link in that website has direct information where a hydrogen rotary is powering a hybrid Mazda5 in tests in Japan and Norway
And it is using "hybrid" to refer to the dual fuel, not dual powertrain. It's still an accurate use of the word, but not what people think of when they hear it.
None of these articles even mention that at all, but is entirely possible where they get the foundations of the rumors "hybrid rotary", and the editors leap to the assumption that it's a sports car with a a hybrid powertrain, and commenters leap to that it's going to be heavy with lots of batteries.
See what I mean? Completely different result from what may actually be the case.
[sidetrack]
Another note, they made a hydrogen rotary Miata that I'd love to get my hands on
[/sidetrack]
To me, the rotary isn't dead until Mazda makes an announcement and dissolves the rotary development department. If they keep the department AT ALL, AT ANY EMPLOYEE STAFF LEVEL.... then it means that there is still hope. Even if that hope is apparently delayed 10,20,30,40,50 years in the future.
06-08-2011, 09:50 AM
#110
2008 40th Anniversary
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you take what mazda says at face value, the 16x is pretty much complete with just some fine tuning for emissions left to do. They announced the renesis in 2001 and the RX-8 came out in late 2003. Holding to that history, we should be seeing the next rotary car in late 2013 as a 2014 model.
I *think* they are waiting for the sky engines to be fully integrated into their car lines so their CAFE numbers meet regulations before adding the 16x.
I *think* they are waiting for the sky engines to be fully integrated into their car lines so their CAFE numbers meet regulations before adding the 16x.
06-08-2011, 11:55 AM
#111
Registered
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
its all speculations, until "MAZDA" announces something we know nothing.
Car & Driver... looks like they read a compilation of many articles over the past few weeks and combined them making a story that they could put out to stir the pot.
Car & Driver... looks like they read a compilation of many articles over the past few weeks and combined them making a story that they could put out to stir the pot.
06-09-2011, 01:30 AM
#113
Registered
06-09-2011, 02:27 AM
#114
I personally have no problems with hydrogen, but engineering will never make hydrogren have more energy content than gasoline. Gasoline is used because it simply has the highest energy content, and takes relatively little energy to put into that form. Electricity is great, easy to produce, but hard to store.
The hybrids just attempt to combine these possibilities, but using the superior energy content in gasoline to provide the electricity cheaply.
But, I was mainly talking about his locked in view that hybrid = heavy.
The series hybrid Namir, with an 800cc turbo rotary as the combustion engine powering 4 electric motors, produces at least twice the power of the RX-8, all wheel drive, 4 times the fuel mileage, 30% higher top speed. And guess what? It's less than half the weight.
Don't get locked in that "hybrid must be heavy" because 1 company made the worst possible hybrid setup and turned a potentially 2,250lb car into a 3,000lb slug. Batteries make it heavy, not "hybrid". Hybrids are possible without batteries.
The hybrids just attempt to combine these possibilities, but using the superior energy content in gasoline to provide the electricity cheaply.
But, I was mainly talking about his locked in view that hybrid = heavy.
The series hybrid Namir, with an 800cc turbo rotary as the combustion engine powering 4 electric motors, produces at least twice the power of the RX-8, all wheel drive, 4 times the fuel mileage, 30% higher top speed. And guess what? It's less than half the weight.
Don't get locked in that "hybrid must be heavy" because 1 company made the worst possible hybrid setup and turned a potentially 2,250lb car into a 3,000lb slug. Batteries make it heavy, not "hybrid". Hybrids are possible without batteries.
1. all oil will run out eventually so hybrids will die so just kill em off already.
2. electric cars like the tesla take roughly 16 HOURS to fully charge....so that makes it impractical.
3. the electric motors have a horrible overheating problem which shows up if you decide to take it to a track as show by the tesla roadster.
best option in the long run is hydrogen.....
06-09-2011, 06:16 AM
#116
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
honestly...even if it wasnt hybrid just by looking at the concept art even before this new one you can tell its going to be heavy....all those curves and what not..how much metal do you think itll have compare to the subtle styles of the 80's/90's rx-7...but as for the state of going hybrid....as top gear explained so well...hybrid/full electric cars is a dieing technology. solely for thet fact that
1. all oil will run out eventually so hybrids will die so just kill em off already.
2. electric cars like the tesla take roughly 16 HOURS to fully charge....so that makes it impractical.
3. the electric motors have a horrible overheating problem which shows up if you decide to take it to a track as show by the tesla roadster.
best option in the long run is hydrogen.....
1. all oil will run out eventually so hybrids will die so just kill em off already.
2. electric cars like the tesla take roughly 16 HOURS to fully charge....so that makes it impractical.
3. the electric motors have a horrible overheating problem which shows up if you decide to take it to a track as show by the tesla roadster.
best option in the long run is hydrogen.....
1: Oil won't "run out", since it is entirely re-producable. Though it may become hella expensive over time.
2: fully electric cars are not what I was referring to, and agree that they have severe problems with being able to store the energy
3: Overheating is not only solvable, but just because the Tesla has it, doesn't mean every hybrid will.
And looking at a picture and determining how heavy the car is, ignoring Mazda's already proven success at implementing their lightweight chassis and shells, at being the only manufacturer to get a 4 seating car back down to the 2,100lb range in today's world...
Yeah, that is just being blind to what already exists.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
badinfluence
Series II Aftermarket Performance Modifications
6
08-31-2015 11:51 AM
